TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
*anxiously bites nails waiting for the rant*
*anxiously bites nails waiting for the rant*
Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all
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Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
Thats a phrase that I've heard quite a bit used on these boards .I understand the sentiment but I'd like to ask any poster who agrees with this the following question
Looking back at your own family 's history why did the first generation of each strand of your family come to live in America and did they do so voluntarily or due to economic necessity or any other reason?
I look forward to hearing those answers.
Thats a phrase that I've heard quite a bit used on these boards .I understand the sentiment but I'd like to ask any poster who agrees with this the following question
Looking back at your own family 's history why did the first generation of each strand of your family come to live in America and did they do so voluntarily or due to economic necessity or any other reason?
I look forward to hearing those answers.
TheOriginalJames
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
All you have to do is look at the times from which the family left. Poor? undergrown crops? poor living conditions? dictatorship rule? War left the country in ruins? Pioneer time when Humans were searching for new lands?
I mean if you take that stance, then are you opposed to Christopher columbus searching for a new land? Why did he do it? (well, profiteering at it's finest). But why move? My fathers ancestors came over in the 1600s when pioneering and settling the new continent was popular.
I guess my point to the question of, why do it? Is...
... because that's what all the cool kids were doing? :smiley24:
All you have to do is look at the times from which the family left. Poor? undergrown crops? poor living conditions? dictatorship rule? War left the country in ruins? Pioneer time when Humans were searching for new lands?
I mean if you take that stance, then are you opposed to Christopher columbus searching for a new land? Why did he do it? (well, profiteering at it's finest). But why move? My fathers ancestors came over in the 1600s when pioneering and settling the new continent was popular.
I guess my point to the question of, why do it? Is...
... because that's what all the cool kids were doing? :smiley24:
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
lmfao :24:
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
but seriously
who gives a flying fuck where you're from. Its not even important.
but seriously
who gives a flying fuck where you're from. Its not even important.
IntruderLS1
Active Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
The racist card being played in this argument is a sign that world without boarders people have nothing of substance to back their views. Isn't if fun to jump up and down and point at the angry people who don't like Mexicans because they're brown. Please no PC BS here. I know they aren't all Mexicans. Just the vast majority.
If our country were being overrun by Scandinavians, the problem would lie there. Color has nothing to do with it.
The problem is this:
Culture A (In this case Americans) are being forced to accept the idea that Culture B (In this case Mexicans) have free reign over the things our ancestors have built, and we (Americans) had better just close our mouths about it. Something that traditionally we don't do very well.
Our school system is literally collapsing. Our hospitals are closing doors every single month. Our prison system is absolutely overwhelmed. Gang violence keeps nice little American boys and girls indoors afraid to go outside.
You want to talk about the terrible "Bush" economy? What of the effect of millions of people sending Billions of dollars out of our country?
It is fine and dandy to have a huge heart, and want to cure all of the words ills. But where is the line drawn? If we were to simply erase the boarders, and let everybody in, what would happened to our society? The society that dedicated men and women have fought tooth and nail to give to us their children? What happens to us when 400 Million people move in next year? Honestly?
We have the right to defend our children's educations. We have the right to defend our way of life in our own country. We have the right to enforce our own laws. Nay, I say an obligation.
As a little quiz, who here can tell me which country in the world has the most lax immigration policies? Which country allows more than any other to legally move in?
Bi-lingual societies have a unique set of problems that some countries have been dealing with for generations. Why would we willingly choose to bring those problems here?
Why don't we have the right to give our children the best place in the world to grow up? Do we owe it to the rest of the world to turn our back on the success we've built, and wallow in misery JUST for the sake of fairness?
You cannot move into a persons home without an invitation, and start making demands. You can't trash their place, turn their TV program off, burn the kids school books because you don't like the way they look, and leave all of the utilities on because they simply don't care if they aren't paying for them.
It is not an oversimplification. It is reality on a national scale.
I have never met a person from another part of the world who has traveled to America and come away with the idea that we are close minded, non-generous, xenophobes. We are a warm and welcoming nation. But we don't have to stand here, and get smacked in the face and just smile and pull out another chair. This is something else that we don't traditionally do well.
The Native Americans got screwed. True story. But it's too late to give it back now. The Mexicans screwed themselves. Their ancestral claim to American territory is paper thin. Who's going to look it up, and try to make the argument for me?
My best friend in the service was 1st generation American. His family was from Mexico. My favorite uncle and all of my cousins are Mexicans. My step dad was Mexican. The reason we all get along so great is because they all chose to live life as Americans. They treasure their heritage, and remember their past, but they live in the now, and work toward the future. They CONTRIBUTE to society, and do not simply take.
The racist card being played in this argument is a sign that world without boarders people have nothing of substance to back their views. Isn't if fun to jump up and down and point at the angry people who don't like Mexicans because they're brown. Please no PC BS here. I know they aren't all Mexicans. Just the vast majority.
If our country were being overrun by Scandinavians, the problem would lie there. Color has nothing to do with it.
The problem is this:
Culture A (In this case Americans) are being forced to accept the idea that Culture B (In this case Mexicans) have free reign over the things our ancestors have built, and we (Americans) had better just close our mouths about it. Something that traditionally we don't do very well.
Our school system is literally collapsing. Our hospitals are closing doors every single month. Our prison system is absolutely overwhelmed. Gang violence keeps nice little American boys and girls indoors afraid to go outside.
You want to talk about the terrible "Bush" economy? What of the effect of millions of people sending Billions of dollars out of our country?
It is fine and dandy to have a huge heart, and want to cure all of the words ills. But where is the line drawn? If we were to simply erase the boarders, and let everybody in, what would happened to our society? The society that dedicated men and women have fought tooth and nail to give to us their children? What happens to us when 400 Million people move in next year? Honestly?
We have the right to defend our children's educations. We have the right to defend our way of life in our own country. We have the right to enforce our own laws. Nay, I say an obligation.
As a little quiz, who here can tell me which country in the world has the most lax immigration policies? Which country allows more than any other to legally move in?
Bi-lingual societies have a unique set of problems that some countries have been dealing with for generations. Why would we willingly choose to bring those problems here?
Why don't we have the right to give our children the best place in the world to grow up? Do we owe it to the rest of the world to turn our back on the success we've built, and wallow in misery JUST for the sake of fairness?
You cannot move into a persons home without an invitation, and start making demands. You can't trash their place, turn their TV program off, burn the kids school books because you don't like the way they look, and leave all of the utilities on because they simply don't care if they aren't paying for them.
It is not an oversimplification. It is reality on a national scale.
I have never met a person from another part of the world who has traveled to America and come away with the idea that we are close minded, non-generous, xenophobes. We are a warm and welcoming nation. But we don't have to stand here, and get smacked in the face and just smile and pull out another chair. This is something else that we don't traditionally do well.
The Native Americans got screwed. True story. But it's too late to give it back now. The Mexicans screwed themselves. Their ancestral claim to American territory is paper thin. Who's going to look it up, and try to make the argument for me?
My best friend in the service was 1st generation American. His family was from Mexico. My favorite uncle and all of my cousins are Mexicans. My step dad was Mexican. The reason we all get along so great is because they all chose to live life as Americans. They treasure their heritage, and remember their past, but they live in the now, and work toward the future. They CONTRIBUTE to society, and do not simply take.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
I can tell you now that the USA does not have the most lax immigration policy by far. If I wanted to move abroad, the USA would probably be one of the hardest countries for me to move to. And do you seriously believe that the best way to sort out the problems you mentioned would be to try and force immigrants to only show allegence to the USA? Also, how would you implement this as law? I've heard enough rants about illegal immigrants in your country. If you're having enough problem sorting that out, how on earth would you deal with checking up on all immigrants to make sure the're not speaking other languages of flying any other flag than the stars and stripes ect? And wouldn't doing that be undermining the US policy of freedom of speech?
I can tell you now that the USA does not have the most lax immigration policy by far. If I wanted to move abroad, the USA would probably be one of the hardest countries for me to move to. And do you seriously believe that the best way to sort out the problems you mentioned would be to try and force immigrants to only show allegence to the USA? Also, how would you implement this as law? I've heard enough rants about illegal immigrants in your country. If you're having enough problem sorting that out, how on earth would you deal with checking up on all immigrants to make sure the're not speaking other languages of flying any other flag than the stars and stripes ect? And wouldn't doing that be undermining the US policy of freedom of speech?
IntruderLS1
Active Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
What did I say about allegiances?
The laws I'm talking about are already on the books. They are simple. Speak the language, learn the basics of the workings of our government, don't try to teraform us into the place you're trying so desperately to escape.
Nobody cares that new people in America speak different languages. It seems that way because of the complaints, but the complaints are about people who refuse to learn English, and yet expect us to cater to their special needs. Our children suffer in the classroom, because a large number of them don't speak the language.
Nobody cares if people from other cultures want to honor their flag on our soil. The problem comes when that honor comes at the dis-respect of our native symbol.
We do have a freedom of speech, and people are allowed to be rude. That does not force the rest of us to simply accept this behavior.
If I moved to your town, and flew a great big U.S. flag in my front yard, you probably wouldn't care. Now if I moved to you town, flew my flag, lived off of your tax money, trashed the streets, invited 12 million of my fellow Yanks to do the same, started forming gangs, started making little Americans and demanded that they be taught an American education, and let your children suffer, you would probably start to take notice. The problem is, as soon as you open your mouth about it, I'm going to call you a racist.
What did I say about allegiances?
The laws I'm talking about are already on the books. They are simple. Speak the language, learn the basics of the workings of our government, don't try to teraform us into the place you're trying so desperately to escape.
Nobody cares that new people in America speak different languages. It seems that way because of the complaints, but the complaints are about people who refuse to learn English, and yet expect us to cater to their special needs. Our children suffer in the classroom, because a large number of them don't speak the language.
Nobody cares if people from other cultures want to honor their flag on our soil. The problem comes when that honor comes at the dis-respect of our native symbol.
We do have a freedom of speech, and people are allowed to be rude. That does not force the rest of us to simply accept this behavior.
If I moved to your town, and flew a great big U.S. flag in my front yard, you probably wouldn't care. Now if I moved to you town, flew my flag, lived off of your tax money, trashed the streets, invited 12 million of my fellow Yanks to do the same, started forming gangs, started making little Americans and demanded that they be taught an American education, and let your children suffer, you would probably start to take notice. The problem is, as soon as you open your mouth about it, I'm going to call you a racist.
Peter Parka
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
I think we got our wires crossed somewhere dude. This whole thread was supposedly about that people in the US shouldn't have any other allegiance other than to the USA. This seems to be talking about flying other flags, speaking other languages ect ect.
I'm not going to debate with you about the problems immigrants may or may not pose as thats been done elsewhere and is getting off the point. I was just pointing out in relation to this thread that laws governing which flags people can fly ect would be nigh on impossible to implement and take away freedom of speech.
I think we got our wires crossed somewhere dude. This whole thread was supposedly about that people in the US shouldn't have any other allegiance other than to the USA. This seems to be talking about flying other flags, speaking other languages ect ect.
I'm not going to debate with you about the problems immigrants may or may not pose as thats been done elsewhere and is getting off the point. I was just pointing out in relation to this thread that laws governing which flags people can fly ect would be nigh on impossible to implement and take away freedom of speech.
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
its a good policy though
Sounds very outdated. Oh yeah, it is.
its a good policy though
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
Hummmmm *thinking*
Well, I agree to a point that as long as people live by the rules, does it really matter? It is annoying when they speak their own languages without bothering to speak ours, when they claim they want to live here say, but then again, it really doesn't affect me day to day so I don't think they should be harrassed over that and it isn't a major thing really imo.
The thing I struggle with is this:
I am not religious and I respect many here that are, but I find it so hard to read that people in general who seem proud to say they are religious, ignore 'Thou shalt love they neighbour', just for one example. To me, this is hypocritical I'm afraid.
As long as they are abiding by the rules of any country that they immigrate to, does it really matter therefore if they miss there own homes from time to time, which affects no-one else?
I have more of a problem with that than anything to be honest.
I mean no offence here to anyone at all, but I struggle to accept religion, far more than some immigrants who miss their own homes and speak a different language at times.
I always avoid religion threads (which is mentioned in this thread) because it is so against my wish, because of the hypocracy etc in ALL religions without fail world-wide, but for some reason, I just wanted to have a say on just this one and now I am gone, cos there is no point saying more now imo.
Hummmmm *thinking*
Well, I agree to a point that as long as people live by the rules, does it really matter? It is annoying when they speak their own languages without bothering to speak ours, when they claim they want to live here say, but then again, it really doesn't affect me day to day so I don't think they should be harrassed over that and it isn't a major thing really imo.
The thing I struggle with is this:
I am not religious and I respect many here that are, but I find it so hard to read that people in general who seem proud to say they are religious, ignore 'Thou shalt love they neighbour', just for one example. To me, this is hypocritical I'm afraid.
As long as they are abiding by the rules of any country that they immigrate to, does it really matter therefore if they miss there own homes from time to time, which affects no-one else?
I have more of a problem with that than anything to be honest.
I mean no offence here to anyone at all, but I struggle to accept religion, far more than some immigrants who miss their own homes and speak a different language at times.
I always avoid religion threads (which is mentioned in this thread) because it is so against my wish, because of the hypocracy etc in ALL religions without fail world-wide, but for some reason, I just wanted to have a say on just this one and now I am gone, cos there is no point saying more now imo.
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
Excellent post Intruder. :clap
Excellent post Intruder. :clap
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
I think it would be better for people to stop being so incredibly proud about where they are from, and start being proud that they are part of the human race. Nations, flags, nationalism....its all divisive. Nothing about where you are born makes you special.
I think it would be better for people to stop being so incredibly proud about where they are from, and start being proud that they are part of the human race. Nations, flags, nationalism....its all divisive. Nothing about where you are born makes you special.
IntruderLS1
Active Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
Lets look at it this way.
You're a smart guy AEF. Most people here I'm sure think you'll do very well for yourself in life.
Let's fast forward to your mid-30's. You have a huge house (off the grid), a couple of cool cars (electric), too hot to touch wife, and a couple of all star kids. ... Life is good.
Now lets say the poor homeless people across the street want to live in your house. They won't hurt your wife or kids, they just want to hang out, eat your food, and watch your TV.
You have two choices. You can either let them hang out, and trash your place, or you can be called a bigot and a heartless bastard for sending them back out into the cold.
What say you?
Lets look at it this way.
You're a smart guy AEF. Most people here I'm sure think you'll do very well for yourself in life.
Let's fast forward to your mid-30's. You have a huge house (off the grid), a couple of cool cars (electric), too hot to touch wife, and a couple of all star kids. ... Life is good.
Now lets say the poor homeless people across the street want to live in your house. They won't hurt your wife or kids, they just want to hang out, eat your food, and watch your TV.
You have two choices. You can either let them hang out, and trash your place, or you can be called a bigot and a heartless bastard for sending them back out into the cold.
What say you?
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
I have got to come back to this to see what he has to say to that. :clap:clap:clap
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
He'll say it's not the same thing. That's what he does when he gets pwned by a metaphor.
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
I hope this doesn't offend anyone but... a flag is just a piece of cloth...
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
You could just put up a fence on the side of your property that faces the poor people so they can't get to your house... When people ask you why you want to build the fence, just tell them that you want to keep crooks and arsons out. If they ask you why you are only putting it on the side of your property that faces the poor people, just stick to your guns and tell them that it makes you safer from crooks/arsons. They may insist that a fence on only one side of your property (the side facing the poor people) looks biased and you are only targeting the poor, but don't cave into that argument, keep telling them it's to keep the crooks/arsons out, it's for your safety. Eventually they will understand that a 100 foot fence around a thousand foot property IS a good idea, you just have to stick to your guns.
You could just put up a fence on the side of your property that faces the poor people so they can't get to your house... When people ask you why you want to build the fence, just tell them that you want to keep crooks and arsons out. If they ask you why you are only putting it on the side of your property that faces the poor people, just stick to your guns and tell them that it makes you safer from crooks/arsons. They may insist that a fence on only one side of your property (the side facing the poor people) looks biased and you are only targeting the poor, but don't cave into that argument, keep telling them it's to keep the crooks/arsons out, it's for your safety. Eventually they will understand that a 100 foot fence around a thousand foot property IS a good idea, you just have to stick to your guns.
IntruderLS1
Active Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
Flag is to cloth as laws are to ink stains on paper.
Flag is to cloth as laws are to ink stains on paper.
COOL_BREEZE2
Well-Known Member
Re: Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at
*(((RINGGGG)))...Knockdown...10 count*
Damn, you fight a hard fight Intruder. Woulda repped ya if I coulda.
*AEF goes to his corner...his handlers are fevorishly working on him.
Handler: What happened there AEF?
AEF: Damn, helluva punch...Didn't see that one coming. That guy is not fighting fair.
AEF slowly rises to his feet...still groggy but willing to go
Ref: AEF, are you ok?
AEF: What time is it?*
And the show goes on.
opcorn2:
*(((RINGGGG)))...Knockdown...10 count*
Damn, you fight a hard fight Intruder. Woulda repped ya if I coulda.
*AEF goes to his corner...his handlers are fevorishly working on him.
Handler: What happened there AEF?
AEF: Damn, helluva punch...Didn't see that one coming. That guy is not fighting fair.
AEF slowly rises to his feet...still groggy but willing to go
Ref: AEF, are you ok?
AEF: What time is it?*
And the show goes on.
opcorn2:
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