American Wages and Healthcare Compared To Australia

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Panacea

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Huh? I just said that it needs fixing, but I don't believe Obamacare or single-payer to be the answer. Doesn't that tell you that I'm in favor of a different solution?

I'm not sure where you're getting the idea my posts are about you, specifically.

Plus, change wasn't impeded... just this version of change.

I'm also not specifically talking about Obama, health care reform has been an issue for many years, and it's nowhere near being improved.

Do you realize that the Republicans submitted their own health care reform plans during the Obamacare debate?

Yes

There may be a mental block for others, and if that's what you're saying I apologize for misunderstanding.

Ok I see, no problem

We need a change in how things are run as well.

I agree with that

My dad is firmly a Republican, and he's a health care provider, and we've had long discussions about what needs to change in our current health care system. But the vast majority of physicians are opposed to any sort of single-payer system, as they feel it would impede their ability to provide quality care to their patients. These are normal everyday doctors... general practice (as in the ones that don't make millions of dollars). They all recognize that things need to change, but the majority of them feel that Obamacare caused things to change for the worse.

Understood.
It would appear that some degree of quality will be lost when making health care more affordable/accessible, just by virtue of more people being able to access healthcare...to what extent is acceptable, I don't know.

I'd like to be a patient somewhere, I have a hormonal disease I leave completely untreated and will for :dunno...if my hard work on this Master's pays off, maybe then?

Maybe I'm just an optimist in thinking there has to be a middle ground in the type of health care we are best off having. Surely adjustments cause problems and it may seem like worse when overall, it is better.
 
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Tim

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My dad is firmly a Republican, and he's a health care provider, and we've had long discussions about what needs to change in our current health care system. But the vast majority of physicians are opposed to any sort of single-payer system, as they feel it would impede their ability to provide quality care to their patients. These are normal everyday doctors... general practice (as in the ones that don't make millions of dollars). They all recognize that things need to change, but the majority of them feel that Obamacare caused things to change for the worse.

I don't think that's accurate. There are over 18,000 American physicians who are members of PNHP (Physicians for a National Health Program) a single-payer health care system.
So maybe your father and his friends object to such a system, but that hardly means that the vast majority of physicians do.
Actually looking at some of the poll numbers, 59% of doctors favor a single-payer system.

31% of all medical costs are attributed to health insurance.... You don't think that eliminating that cost would be better for everyone?

And YES, single-payer would work in this country, don't believe me, then go see what thousands of physicians are saying about it.
http://www.pnhp.org/
 
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Peter Parka

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From what I've seen of Obama's health care, he takes the middle ground too much and pleases no one.

So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth. - Rev 3:16
 

retro

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I don't think that's accurate. There are over 18,000 American physicians who are members of PNHP (Physicians for a National Health Program) a single-payer health care system.
So maybe your father and his friends object to such a system, but that hardly means that the vast majority of physicians do.
Actually looking at some of the poll numbers, 59% of doctors favor a single-payer system.

31% of all medical costs are attributed to health insurance.... You don't think that eliminating that cost would be better for everyone?

And YES, single-payer would work in this country, don't believe me, then go see what thousands of physicians are saying about it.
http://www.pnhp.org/

Awesome... so 2.7% of the physicians in the United States support a single-payer health care system. There are 661,400 physicians in the country, so 18,000 is a drop in the bucket. I'll stand by my assessment that the vast majority of physicians are opposed to a single-payer health care system. Oh, but wait, PNHP is an organization of 18,000 physicians, medical students and health professionals. That means that not all of the members are physicians... they could be anyone from coders, medical assistants, or any number of workers in the health care field. Talk about disingenuous. But even if I give you that 18,000 number as being all physicians, you still only get 2.7% like I said already.

So what poll states that 59% of physicians support a single-payer system? If it's a PNHP poll, then I'm not even going to dignify it with a response. You guys want unbiased data all the time, and that's what you need to provide in this instance as well.

Also, administration and not health insurance specifically as you claim, is what accounts for 31% of all health care costs. But lets talk about dealing with insurance companies. Speaking from personal experience, the vast majority of that administration is actually spent getting approvals for and filing reports, charts, updates, and such for.... gasp, medicare patients. As an example, I worked in a Physical Therapy clinic, and I handled getting authorizations for patients. Here are the steps that it took for getting authorization for a medicare patient as opposed to a private health care patient.

Medicare
1) Call an 800 number, put in the patient's information, wait for someone to get on the phone to give you another phone number to call based on that specific patient.

2) Call the next number, wait on hold, finally talk to someone and give them the information that you gave the previous person. They will then give you a fax number to send the physician rx for physical therapy to them for review.

3) Wait 30-45 minutes and then call back, hopefully they've reviewed what you faxed over by then. If they have, then you get to call the original 800 number.

4) Call the original 800 number, hope that everything has been put into the system, and if it has, get the authorization number and put it in the patient's chart.

5) Call the patient to schedule an appointment.

Blue Cross

1) Call 800 number, fax rx over while you're on the phone with them, get authorization.

2) Call patient and schedule appointment.

I've grossly simplified and removed a lot of the details from the process, but you should get the picture by what I said. Guess what, that's administrative work, due to insurance. Getting authorization on a Medicare patient often times took 3-4 times more effort than getting one for a private insurance patient. Oh, and with private insurances, if you had multiples for the same company... you could get them all at the same time. When it was Medicare, you had to repeat the process for each individual patient.

So, let's go ahead and try this again. Link to some unbiased data that states 59% of physicians are in favor of a single-payer health care system. Let's go ahead and avoid the biased information that you're getting from PNHP as well... they have an agenda for a single-payer system, therefore their data is going to be slanted that direction.
 

Tim

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And I would like to see from you any sort of proof that doctors oppose national health care. My dad said so isn't considered proof.
 

Tim

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The fact that ANY doctor would appose a system where everyone can have access to basic health care is bizarre to me.
 

Panacea

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The fact that ANY doctor would appose a system where everyone can have access to basic health care is bizarre to me.

That's what I was thinking, to an extent...what honorable doctor isn't concerned millions of people are not receiving health care above all other legitimate concerns? :confused
 

BadBoy

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To the OP, how can you compare a country of roughly 22 million people to a country with roughly 311 million people? You are comparing apples to oranges. Besides, the #1 cancer here in the US is greed. Until you wipe that out, everything is a moot point.
 

retro

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And I would like to see from you any sort of proof that doctors oppose national health care. My dad said so isn't considered proof.

Very quick google search, and I know there's more out there.

42% in favor, 58% opposed
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/588331

It's important to note that the vast majority of physicians support health care reform... but they don't believe it should be in the form of a single-payer system.

A huge issue is the fact that the government, through Medicare, has already slashed physician reimbursements and threatens to cut them even further. If Medicare is any indication of how a nationalized health care system would be run, we'd be stuck in red tape for far longer than it takes right now. I detailed the hoops you have to jump through for a simple physical therapy authorization as the system stands right now. How bad would it be to try and get an MRI authorized? What about a transplant? The government in control of something like this is just asking for problems. Medicare is already insolvent as it stands right now... how would a single-payer system end up any differently? The government has driven every single thing they try and do into the ground. The USPS is a complete joke and bleeds money every year. The government is completely inefficient, and that's proven day in and day out. Hell, they couldn't even run "Cash for Clunkers" with anything even remotely resembling efficiency... how in God's name do we figure they'd be able to run a single-payer health care system.

The fact that ANY doctor would appose a system where everyone can have access to basic health care is bizarre to me.

Physicians don't believe that people should be denied health care coverage... and to claim that is completely disingenuous. They just don't want the government in charge of it. Seems pretty simple to me.
 

Peter Parka

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To the OP, how can you compare a country of roughly 22 million people to a country with roughly 311 million people? You are comparing apples to oranges. Besides, the #1 cancer here in the US is greed. Until you wipe that out, everything is a moot point.

Isn't that exactly how opinion polls work? They get it right the majority of the time, what makes you think this is an exception?
 
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Panacea

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I haven't seen enough cohesive evidence to believe any of us in this thread know what physicians want, collectively. That really shouldn't be the most important factor in deciding the best course of action anyway.

It seems the attitudes in this country have shaped it's future course...you don't see professionals and skilled laborers choosing to flock to the US, just refugees from a country destroyed by drugs, desperate for a bit of safety. Awesome.
 

Accountable

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To the OP, how can you compare a country of roughly 22 million people to a country with roughly 311 million people? You are comparing apples to oranges. Besides, the #1 cancer here in the US is greed. Until you wipe that out, everything is a moot point.
It does seem to point more to a state-by-state option rather than a pan-USA model, dunnit?

While Australia has a population between that of New York and Texas, the population density is closer to Alaska.
 

Peter Parka

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It does seem to point more to a state-by-state option rather than a pan-USA model, dunnit?

While Australia has a population between that of New York and Texas, the population density is closer to Alaska.


The population of the UK has a far greater density than that of the USA and our NHS works fine. How do you explain that and what has population density got to do with it anyway?
 

Johnfromokc

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All I got out of what John just had to say was, "blah blah blah I'm better than you are". Yeah, that about covers it. Not worth wasting my time to even attempt to have a rational discussion with a demagogue like him.

Thanks for the negative reps. It's good to know you are so thinned skinned.



Oh, and John... I have a copy of all of the Federalist Papers, that I've read through about 3-4 times. I've also read the entire constitution and did a research paper on it in college. If you had actually read anything in either one of those collected works, you'd more than likely have a vastly different belief system.

You're still here? How many threads does this make that you cry and say you are going to take your little ball and go home?

Why do I find it so difficult to believe you have read anything that didn't come from the CATO Institute and was simply labeled "Federalist Papers"? What you read were opinion pieces by libertarian hacks.

I also appreciate how you refer to me as a "bigot" because I'm a proponent of States' rights. Impressive. :rolleyes:

You're not the brightest bulb in the box with reading comprehension are you? That explains why you don't have a rudimentary understanding of the constitution except for the CATO interpretation.

With that, I actually am out. I fully expect this little troll to continue to go after me, but I'm quite frankly past the point of caring anymore. Come over to the forum in mine and Tim's sigs, the libs need another nutjob to help support them... and you fit that description perfectly.

Why are you still here, namecalling and adding little other than you same talking points?

A nut job, to most people, is someone who has no problem with millions of Americans going bankrupt because they can't pay their medical bills.

No thanks again on your conservo-bot forum. I've seen too many circle jerks like that where people like you sit around agreeing with each other and repeating FOX talking points.
 
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retro

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Seriously, again with the negative reps?? :dunno

I leave negative reps when I take issue with what someone has to say. That's what the system is there for. You give a positive rep when you enjoy a post or find it amusing, and a negative rep when you think something was asinine or idiotic. People take the whole system far too seriously in my view.

Johnnyboy... please, do continue with the childish antics. If nothing else, you're giving me a good laugh. I'd respond to the last bit of bullshit that you spewed, except that it would look as though I was giving legitimacy to it.
 

retro

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The population of the UK has a far greater density than that of the USA and our NHS works fine. How do you explain that and what has population density got to do with it anyway?

Not sure what population density has to do with it... but the UK is also about 1/5th the size of the United States in terms of population. Canada is about 1/10th of our size, and Australia is even smaller. You guys have inefficiencies in your systems as they stand right now... imagine what they would look like at 5x the size, with the United State bureaucratic engine behind them. You're asking for a disaster at that point. The government has proven that it can't even run Medicare, why would we trust them to run health care for everyone?
 
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