Woman Escorted Off Bus For Reading Bible Aloud

[dt3]

I don't remember many of you guys having a problem with the flying imams when they were asked to leave the plane for praying...

I was gonna get there!

*Wonders what everyone would think if the woman was Arab and reading the Quran*

 

[All Else Failed]

I thought the imams were praying at a reasonable level but everyone got paranoid that they were terrorists or something just because they were arab?

Again, I don't care who you are, if you're making a disturbance, you should be treated as anyone that is creating a disturbance.

 

[debbie t]

it didnt say she was praying it said she was reading. to her children..and didnt indicate a reasonable level or what that might be




here we go round the mullberry bush again

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

.lol.

 

[thrawn]

wow...

 

[Crusty Lugholes]

Exactly, so it makes this about religion. If she'd been reading a harlequin romance novel .. nothing would have been on the news, and I also bet no one would have said anything.

I would have been fully affronted if she had been reading a Harlequin romance novel aloud!!!!!! :wtf: :mad :yuk


Seriously though, It makes me wonder what the whole truth of the matter is.
I think unless you were on that bus when the incident occurred, you'll never know exactly how it went down.

 

[Thebest]

I say if it was loud enough to annoy the driver, they were in the right getting her and her family off the bus. She has plenty of time to read the bible to her kids at their house. And yes, I do believe that it probably would've gone down the same way if it was a different book.

 

[Peter Parka]

Well like has already been said here, it's impossible to judge the situation if you wern't there but going on personal experience of 7th day adventists, they are a rather extreme religion who just seem to like being as difficult as possible. The're one of these warped religions who believe being persecuted means they have Gods blessing so go out of their way to be "persecuted." Didn't the article say the woman was on her way to the church? I'm sure she could have waited 5 minutes to hear the Bible being read!
I agree with others though that this has nothing to with religion. Personally even if someone was reading a book I liked at the top of their voice in a bus I'd be getting pissed off. People get kicked off of public transport for all sorts of anti social reasons but no one makes a fuss about that being discrimination.

 

[Boomer]

100% agree. If someone wants to practice a religion, that's their business but personally if I'm travelling on a bus I have the right not to be disturbed by some religious fruitcake and believe me, those 7th day adventists are!

Just because someone is reading the bible, doesnt make them a fruit cake. You sound like an arrogant biggot, but I forgive you.

 

[Peter Parka]

Just because someone is reading the bible, doesnt make them a fruit cake. You sound like an arrogant biggot, but I forgive you.

I didn't say she was a fruit cake because she was reading the Bible, I said she was a fruit cake because she's a 7th day adventists. Look at their beliefs for a minute and then disagree with me.

 

[Boomer]

I didn't say she was a fruit cake because she was reading the Bible, I said she was a fruit cake because she's a 7th day adventists. Look at their beliefs for a minute and then disagree with me.

Im not going to judge anyone for their beliefs.

 

[Peter Parka]

Not even fundamental Muslims who want to kill people indescriminatley?

 

[Boomer]

I think the American Government is taking care of that. Im not going to bother myself with it. Why add on any extra stress?

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Im not going to judge anyone for their beliefs.

I am going to judge the fanatical, so called religious, extremist terrorists for their beliefs who think it is God or Allah's wish to fly planes into the World Trade Towers and kill (forgive me I can't recall the amount) the amount of innocent civilian lives. I am also going to judge the religious terrorists who hijacked the other planes to carry out their mass murder also. I am also going to judge the religious fanatics who believe it is alright to mass murder other civilians by whatever means, chemical or bomb because they believe it is God's will and that they would get 12 virgins (or how many amount) for doing it. I will also judge their leaders for encouraging them to do so and to thwart all efforts of peace and democracy.

 

[Boomer]

I am going to judge the fanatical, so called religious, extremist terrorists for their beliefs who think it is God or Allah's wish to fly planes into the World Trade Towers and kill (forgive me I can't recall the amount) the amount of innocent civilian lives. I am also going to judge the religious terrorists who hijacked the other planes to carry out their mass murder also. I am also going to judge the religious fanatics who believe it is alright to mass murder other civilians by whatever means, chemical or bomb because they believe it is God's will and that they would get 12 virgins (or how many amount) for doing it. I will also judge their leaders for encouraging them to do so and to thwart all efforts of peace and democracy.

I hardly see how a woman reading a bible to her children, puts her into the category of a terrorist. I actually don't see how this statement has anything to do with the topic at hand. Ah, I see. You think that, because I wont judge someone for their beliefs, that I support what Al Qaeda is doing? You understand wrong. I will judge someone for their actions, not for what they choose to believe. I think its funny how the country you love so much, was one nation under God when it was created. How the constitution was created to allow people to explore and enjoy their own beliefs. If I'm not mistaken, the pilgrims came to America in order to practice their religion without persecution. I think its sad that the religion this country was founded on, is suddenly being outlawed. I think the extremists are the people that made that woman get off the bus.

 

[Peter Parka]

I will judge someone for their actions, not for what they choose to believe.

Bit hard to seperate peoples actions from their beliefs don't you think seeing that religions beliefs are based on actions.
And as for this woman, yes I know she's not a terrorist and I know it's hard to know exactly what went on on that bus but if she was being so loud that the she was disturbing people and refused to stop when asked not to, it just shows her as an inconsiderate arsehole whatever her beliefs. I've yet to see any evidence posted here that she was being discriminated against on religious grounds.

 

[All Else Failed]

I hardly see how a woman reading a bible to her children, puts her into the category of a terrorist. I actually don't see how this statement has anything to do with the topic at hand. Ah, I see. You think that, because I wont judge someone for their beliefs, that I support what Al Qaeda is doing? You understand wrong. I will judge someone for their actions, not for what they choose to believe. I think its funny how the country you love so much, was one nation under God when it was created. How the constitution was created to allow people to explore and enjoy their own beliefs. If I'm not mistaken, the pilgrims came to America in order to practice their religion without persecution. I think its sad that the religion this country was founded on, is suddenly being outlawed. I think the extremists are the people that made that woman get off the bus.

No it wasn't. The framers of our nation set up a intentionally secular government, and most of them were either unitarians or deists. Hardly even religious point of views.

also:

The Treaty of Tripoli

Unlike most governments of the past, the American Founding Fathers set up a government divorced from any religion. Their establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves of its origin; they knew this as a ubiquitous unspoken given. However, as the United States delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of the U.S. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the U.S. goverenment to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." [bold text, mine]

Click here to see the actual article 11 of the Treaty​

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president). Joel Barlow, the American diplomat served as counsel to Algiers and held responsibility for the treaty negotiations. Barlow had once served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. He became good friends with Paine, Jefferson, and read Enlightenment literature. Later he abandoned Christian orthodoxy for rationalism and became an advocate of secular government. Joel Barlow wrote the original English version of the treaty, including Amendment 11. Barlow forwarded the treaty to U.S. legislators for approval in 1797. Timothy Pickering, the secretary of state, endorsed it and John Adams concurred (now during his presidency), sending the document on to the Senate. The Senate approved the treaty on June 7, 1797, and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797.
So here we have a clear admission by the United States in 1797 that our government did not found itself upon Christianity. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this treaty represented U.S. law as all U.S. Treaties do (see the Constitution, Article VI, Sect.2: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.") [Bold text, mine]
Although the Treaty of Tripoli under agreement only lasted a few years and no longer has legal status, it clearly represented the feelings of our Founding Fathers at the beginning of the American government.




The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity





The pilgrims had nothing to do with the constitution. Plus Christianity is never going to be outlawed at all, when over 90% of the country is Christian. This is an isolated incident.

 

[Boomer]

Bit hard to seperate peoples actions from their beliefs don't you think seeing that religions beliefs are based on actions.
And as for this woman, yes I know she's not a terrorist and I know it's hard to know exactly what went on on that bus but if she was being so loud that the she was disturbing people and refused to stop when asked not to, it just shows her as an inconsiderate arsehole whatever her beliefs. I've yet to see any evidence posted here that she was being discriminated against on religious grounds.

Do you have any idea how many times you have fallen into this catagory with your disrespectful stabs at my religion?

No it wasn't. The framers of our nation set up a intentionally secular government, and most of them were either unitarians or deists. Hardly even religious point of views.

also:

The Treaty of Tripoli


Unlike most governments of the past, the American Founding Fathers set up a government divorced from any religion. Their establishment of a secular government did not require a reflection to themselves of its origin; they knew this as a ubiquitous unspoken given. However, as the United States delved into international affairs, few foreign nations knew about the intentions of the U.S. For this reason, an insight from at a little known but legal document written in the late 1700s explicitly reveals the secular nature of the U.S. goverenment to a foreign nation. Officially called the "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary," most refer to it as simply the Treaty of Tripoli. In Article 11, it states:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." [bold text, mine]​

Click here to see the actual article 11 of the Treaty​

The preliminary treaty began with a signing on 4 November, 1796 (the end of George Washington's last term as president). Joel Barlow, the American diplomat served as counsel to Algiers and held responsibility for the treaty negotiations. Barlow had once served under Washington as a chaplain in the revolutionary army. He became good friends with Paine, Jefferson, and read Enlightenment literature. Later he abandoned Christian orthodoxy for rationalism and became an advocate of secular government. Joel Barlow wrote the original English version of the treaty, including Amendment 11. Barlow forwarded the treaty to U.S. legislators for approval in 1797. Timothy Pickering, the secretary of state, endorsed it and John Adams concurred (now during his presidency), sending the document on to the Senate. The Senate approved the treaty on June 7, 1797, and officially ratified by the Senate with John Adams signature on 10 June, 1797. All during this multi-review process, the wording of Article 11 never raised the slightest concern. The treaty even became public through its publication in The Philadelphia Gazette on 17 June 1797.
So here we have a clear admission by the United States in 1797 that our government did not found itself upon Christianity. Unlike the Declaration of Independence, this treaty represented U.S. law as all U.S. Treaties do (see the Constitution, Article VI, Sect.2: "This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.") [Bold text, mine]
Although the Treaty of Tripoli under agreement only lasted a few years and no longer has legal status, it clearly represented the feelings of our Founding Fathers at the beginning of the American government.




The U.S. NOT founded upon Christianity





The pilgrims had nothing to do with the constitution. Plus Christianity is never going to be outlawed at all, when over 90% of the country is Christian. This is an isolated incident.

Please recite the pledge...:smiley24:

 

[Peter Parka]

Do you have any idea how many times you have fallen into this catagory with your disrespectful stabs at my religion?

Uh??? I don't even know what your religion is?:confused
Bit rich from someone who just called me an arrogant biggot too!

 

[All Else Failed]

Do you have any idea how many times you have fallen into this catagory with your disrespectful stabs at my religion?

Please recite the pledge...:smiley24:

Please recite the original version of the pledge, where it has no reference to god whatsoever.

(1892 version)

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."


You're ignoring historical fact. Here we have the actual people from that era saying we are not a nation founded on Christianity, and you're saying otherwise?