Why I think prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Glad to have your approval! I needed it!!

Just take one look at your title and the way you go about making your points. Why call it blasphemy when you don't believe in the one who's being blasphemed in the act of doing something that you don't believe is necessary?

If you are an atheist, why discuss religion so much? I'm a Ford guy, so I don't join GM boards and rail on LS1's. Your motives are clear, as insincere and calculating as they may be.

I don't have to believe in it to comment on its various characteristics, beliefs and facets. I'm merely making points from observation and as a former believer in Christ/god.


i am an atheist, and I discuss it because other's beliefs can potentially effect me. Plus I'm just interested in why people do things that seem to not make sense.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

I'm not a religious man, but I'll throw in my opinion.

Why can there only be one perfect plan? Why can't there be multiple perfect versions of a grand perfect plan?

Maybe Aunt Gertrude's death is set in stone, but that doesn't mean it's right now. The Bible is full of examples of God testing man and man's faith.

Couldn't Plan A be Aunt Gertrude gets sick, to see if her family will turn to God in their time of need? If they do, then God heals her to reward their faith.

Or Plan B, they turn to him and Gertrude dies anyway. The family has shown their faith, and God rewards them for it in heaven. The family is consoled knowing that Gertrude is in the "better place".

Great example. Just one thing to add here: We can't compete with our faith thinking it earns us salvation as our faith is a gift from God. We are rewarded for our obedience.

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

I'm not a religious man, but I'll throw in my opinion.

Why can there only be one perfect plan? Why can't there be multiple perfect versions of a grand perfect plan?

Maybe Aunt Gertrude's death is set in stone, but that doesn't mean it's right now. The Bible is full of examples of God testing man and man's faith.

Couldn't Plan A be Aunt Gertrude gets sick, to see if her family will turn to God in their time of need? If they do, then God heals her to reward their faith.

Or Plan B, they turn to him and Gertrude dies anyway. The family has shown their faith, and God rewards them for it in heaven. The family is consoled knowing that Gertrude is in the "better place".

Why would a perfect being need self validation from imperfect beings?

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

All in all my point still stands: God's plan is eternal and perfect. You trying to change it is going against his plan. Accept life and accept god's plan.

 

[dt3]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Why would a perfect being need self validation from imperfect beings?

I know it's a different argument, but since we're assuming all Christian beliefs to be true in this thread, man has free will. God wants to see how we exercise it.

 

[Peter Parka]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

What does God want me to do anyway? There's so many religions preaching different things and saying this is the right one its just too damn confusing, probably just as well I dont want to go to heaven anyway, its sounds boring to me! I believe in God but I believe if he really wanted me to behave in a certain way he wouldn't make is so confusing. I don't think anything bad will happen to me after I die because I try to be a good person to people. If God wants to condemn me to hell for that then he's an evil person who I most certainly arn't interested in pleasing! LIke I said, this whole thing is really confusing!:willy_nilly:

 

[Thebest]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

What does God want me to do anyway? There's so many religions preaching different things and saying this is the right one its just too damn confusing, probably just as well I dont want to go to heaven anyway, its sounds boring to me! I believe in God but I believe if he really wanted me to behave in a certain way he wouldn't make is so confusing. I don't think anything bad will happen to me after I die because I try to be a good person to people. If God wants to condemn me to hell for that then he's an evil person who I most certainly arn't interested in pleasing! LIke I said, this whole thing is really confusing!:willy_nilly:

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

 

[NightWarrior]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

I always enjoyed Greek Mythology.

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

I know it's a different argument, but since we're assuming all Christian beliefs to be true in this thread, man has free will. God wants to see how we exercise it.

Well your free will isn't worth much if he already knows where you're going to go when you die, does it????

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

I always enjoyed Greek Mythology.

Me too! The gods in their myths were bastards haha.

 

[dt3]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Well your free will isn't worth much if he already knows where you're going to go when you die, does it????

Where in the Bible does it say God knows we're going to heaven or hell before we die?

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Where in the Bible does it say God knows we're going to heaven or hell before we die?

well, him being all knowing is one example of how he already knows.

There is also "the book of life" that has the names of the chosen few that will make it into heaven.

 

[dt3]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

well, him being all knowing is one example of how he already knows.

There is also "the book of life" that has the names of the chosen few that will make it into heaven.

But your name isn't in the book of life until you accept Christ as your savior. And God doesn't know you'll do that, because of the concept of free will.

All-knowing doesn't contradict free will. Grace put it perfectly before when she said something like (And help me Grace, I'm paraphrasing here ): If you offer a kid a choice between a Snickers and an apple, you know he'll take the candy. But it's still his decision to make.

 

[groundpounder]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

well, him being all knowing is one example of how he already knows.

There is also "the book of life" that has the names of the chosen few that will make it into heaven.

you're going to have to do better than that, Pat.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

But your name isn't in the book of life until you accept Christ as your savior. And God doesn't know you'll do that, because of the concept of free will.

All-knowing doesn't contradict free will. Grace put it perfectly before when she said something like (And help me Grace, I'm paraphrasing here ): If you offer a kid a choice between a Snickers and an apple, you know he'll take the candy. But it's still his decision to make.

It takes an understanding and belief that God always was, always is, and always will be. It also takes an understanding and belief that His timing is not the same as our timing.

God is who he is and this doesn't change who we are unless we want it too, but because He is our creator he knows what we are going to do because of his omnipresence. This doesn't mean that he makes our choices for us.

I can know what color my child is going to pick without making the choice for my child. God can do the same thing just with much more accuracy.

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence
Psalm 139
OMNISCIENCE (All Knowing)
1 O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. 2 You
know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts
from afar. 3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways. 4 Before a word is on my
tongue you know it completely, O LORD. 5 You hem me in—
behind and before; you have laid your hand upon me. 6 Such
knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.





OMNIPOTENCE (All Powerful)
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my
mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and
wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full
well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in
the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of
the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days
ordained for me were written in your book before one of them
came to be. 17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them! 18 Were I to count them, they
would outnumber the grains of sand. When I awake, I am still
with you. 19 If only you would slay the wicked, O God! Away
from me, you bloodthirsty men! 20 They speak of you with evil
intent; your adversaries misuse your name. 21 Do I not hate
those who hate you, O LORD, and abhor those who rise up
against you? 22 I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them
my enemies.

 

[dt3]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence
Psalm 139
OMNISCIENCE (All Knowing)
1 O LORD, you have searched me and you know me. 2 You
know when I sit and when I rise; you perceive my thoughts
from afar. 3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways. 4 Before a word is on my
tongue you know it completely, O LORD. 5 You hem me in—
behind and before; you have laid your hand upon me. 6 Such
knowledge is too wonderful for me, too lofty for me to attain.





OMNIPOTENCE (All Powerful)
13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my
mother’s womb. 14 I praise you because I am fearfully and
wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full
well. 15 My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in
the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of
the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days
ordained for me were written in your book before one of them
came to be. 17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them! 18 Were I to count them, they
would outnumber the grains of sand. When I awake, I am still
with you. 19 If only you would slay the wicked, O God! Away
from me, you bloodthirsty men! 20 They speak of you with evil
intent; your adversaries misuse your name. 21 Do I not hate
those who hate you, O LORD, and abhor those who rise up
against you? 22 I have nothing but hatred for them; I count them
my enemies.

*Grabs a shovel, jumps in, wades around, digs, climbs back out, searches with a ground penetrating radar and still doesn't find the point*

 

[GraceAbounds]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

*Grabs a shovel, jumps in, wades around, digs, climbs back out, searches with a ground penetrating radar and still doesn't find the point*

Dig in to verses 139: 7-12 as well. They should be included in AEF's post. Psalms 139 is beautiful.

 

[dt3]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

Dig in to verses 139: 7-12 as well. They should be included in AEF's post. Psalms 139 is beautiful.

I thought you could take just any quote from the Bible, pull it out of context, and make a valid point with it????

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: Why prayer is absolutely futile, and blasphemy.

*Grabs a shovel, jumps in, wades around, digs, climbs back out, searches with a ground penetrating radar and still doesn't find the point*

My frame was not hidden from you when I was made in
the secret place. When I was woven together in the depths of
the earth, 16 your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days
ordained for me were written in your book before one of them
came to be.