Why I am voting for McCain/Palin tomorrow

[Leather N Lace]

:surrender
Hey dont apologize to me....mulder has a tendency to swerve from the real discussion !


I call it being a MAN!!:ninja:24:

:nod: They do tend to go on!

 

[Fox Mulder]

OMFG -- you're deliberately being obtuse!

Follow the ball: A person is born a sociopath. They have a loving home and a great environment to grow up in. When they get into their teen years, they are loners. They begin acting out and manipulating people to their own ends. Finally, they end up in violent criminal activity.

Isn't it logical to conclude that their environment didn't matter? They weren't abused. They weren't subjected to violence - yet they became involved in violent criminal behavior. Couldn't it be argued that they became criminals in spite of their upbringing? And since their criminal behavior was in spite of their upbringing, can't we then say that it wouldn't have mattered what their upbringing was, they would have ended up criminals any way?

The person I've described, by the way, fits the description of a sociopath listed on several mental health websites.

Look--don't blame me if you can't follow logic and draw illogical inferences from data. I do this for a living so I am quite sure its not me that's obtuse or can't follow. The situation you are describing in no way leade to the conclusion that such behavior is genetic. As I have tried to tell you over and over, there are a myriad of factors that play into everyone's life. First of all--the home may appear to have loving parents, but what does that mean? Do we have a absolute definition of a loving parent? I know parents that are very loving (in some cases too loving) of children, but are still themselves off kilter pyschologically. You would have to iolate the child with the parents as the only influence and even then you'd have to control the parents behavior. But there are far too many influences on a person's life from an early age other than just parents to point to the parents alone.

I can't fathom how simplistic you believe the human brain and psyche are. You want to infer that two people raised in the same household should have identical predilictions otehrwise the difference must be genetic when nothing could be farther from the truth. One child in a family can be a model citizen and honor student while another abuses drugs--then 20 years later, they flip flop and the model citizen now can't cope with life while the former drug abuser cleans up his/her act and is now the successful one.

Again this require a subtle application of logic and you are missing several layers.

Christ where the fuck is Gbrumb when I need him--he'd see this in an instant.

I'm not even talking about a criminal gene. I'm simply arguing against the idea that all criminal behavior is learned -- which is what you stated in your original post.

Absolutely did not say that.

 

[wednesday]

lOL spell check mulder hunxxxxx

 

[Fox Mulder]

What you originally said was:




So now you're saying genetics may be involved?

Genetics is involved generally not specifically--I don't believe that a specific person is doomed or pre-destined to be a criminal genetically, which is what you have stated.

 

[Fox Mulder]

lOL spell check mulder hunxxxxx

I don't have time for spell check--why don't you be a good little girl and do it for me--or just do me!!! :cool

 

[Fox Mulder]

:nod: They do tend to go on!

Mulder can go on and on--just ask Wednesday or any other woman here!!! :cool

 

[wednesday]

I don't have time for spell check--why don't you be a good little girl and do it for me--or just do me!!! :cool

eek:24::24:just cuz i pointed out your spelling mishaps..:thumbdown:24:

 

[wednesday]

Mulder can go on and on--just ask Wednesday or any other woman here!!! :cool

Yes he does..go on..and on..and on..and on...*reads a book in between* and on, and on...:24::24::24:

 

[Fox Mulder]

Yes he does..go on..and on..and on..and on...*reads a book in between* and on, and on...:24::24::24:

Mulder is reeling Leather N Lace in--don't screw it up Wedzy!!! :cool

 

[wednesday]

Mulder is reeling Leather N Lace in--don't screw it up Wedzy!!! :cool

:24::24::24:

 

[Leather N Lace]

Absolutely did not say that.

Yes, you did:

I firmly believe a person obtains a criminal mind or predilection based on their environment and upbrining not from their genetics.

 

[wednesday]

uh oh....*grabs rubber helmet*

 

[Leather N Lace]

Mulder is reeling Leather N Lace in--don't screw it up Wedzy!!! :cool

:yuk:yuk

 

[wednesday]

:yuk:yuk

:24::24mg mulder does she know you??ninja:24:

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'm not even talking about a criminal gene. I'm simply arguing against the idea that all criminal behavior is learned -- which is what you stated in your original post.

I firmly believe a person obtains a criminal mind or predilection based on their environment and upbrining not from their genetics.

Sorry, but my statement is NOT what you claim it to be even taken out of context as you did. This is again a fallacy in logic on your part. The above statement cannot logically be construed as having the same meaing as "all criminal behavior is learned" -- if that's what I intened, that's what I would have said.

You are torturing what I wrote to fit it into what you want it to be. This is getting silly at this point.

Unfortunately, I cannot write this in crayon for you, but I will try typed words one more time.

Your belief:

"Some people are hard wired to be criminals and there is nothing that can be done to change it--they will become criminals no matter what environment they are in."

My belief:

"No one is "hard wired" to be a criminal--their environment plays the primary role in determining whether someone goes on a path to a life of crime or not."

Now, that DOES NOT mean that genetics plays no part in a person's personality--it does, but that is very different than your claim.

 

[Fox Mulder]

:24::24mg mulder does she know you??ninja:24:

She'd be lucky to "know" Mulder!!! :cool

 

[Anie]

She'd be lucky to "know" Mulder!!! :cool

No one knows Mulder, not even you.

 

[Fox Mulder]

uh oh....*grabs rubber helmet*

Are you going to give Mulder's helmet a scrub? :ninja

:24::24::24:

 

[Leather N Lace]

Sorry, but my statement is NOT what you claim it to be even taken out of context as you did. This is again a fallacy in logic on your part. The above statement cannot logically be construed as having the same meaing as "all criminal behavior is learned" -- if that's what I intened, that's what I would have said.

You are torturing what I wrote to fit it into what you want it to be. This is getting silly at this point.

No, you are back pedaling just as fast as you can. I've seen you do this before. You make a large general statement, and when someone calls you on it, you back pedal -- and then you try to make the other person look stupid. Not gonna work this time.

You clearly said that you believe that "a person obtains a criminal mind or predilection based on their environment and upbrining not from their genetics." How is that NOT saying that criminal behavior is learned behavior? And you specifically eliminated genetics from the equation.

You are the one who is trying to twist what YOU said into something that it's not. Your statement leaves no room for genetics. All that I have been trying to do is say that genetics most certainly should be included in the equation for SOME people.

Maybe I should draw you a picture --- or better yet, let's use a real equation:

genetics + environment = criminal

genetics + 0 = criminal

environment + 0 = criminal


In my argument, all of the above equations can be true. In your argument, the last equation is the only one that is true.


At any rate, I'm done. Now go find someone else to baffle with your bullshit.

 

[Fox Mulder]

No, you are back pedaling just as fast as you can. I've seen you do this before. You make a large general statement, and when someone calls you on it, you back pedal -- and then you try to make the other person look stupid. Not gonna work this time.

Sorry--too late--you already look stupid!!! :24::24::24:

You clearly said that you believe that "a person obtains a criminal mind or predilection based on their environment and upbrining not from their genetics." How is that NOT saying that criminal behavior is learned behavior? And you specifically eliminated genetics from the equation.

Its pretty easy to understand. I've said it over and over. You believe certain believe genetically are doomed to a life of crime and I believe that's bullshit--its pretty simple. I wonder if you would correlate higher crime rates among miniorities as a genetic predisposition????

You are the one who is trying to twist what YOU said into something that it's not. Your statement leaves no room for genetics. All that I have been trying to do is say that genetics most certainly should be included in the equation for SOME people.

No--my statement leaves no room for genetics as the determining factor--big difference. Your statement leaves no room for anything else BUT genetics as the determining factor for some people regardless of environment, which is a ludicrous statement.

Maybe I should draw you a picture --- or better yet, let's use a real equation:

genetics + environment = criminal

genetics + 0 = criminal

environment + 0 = criminal

In my argument, all of the above equations can be true. In your argument, the last equation is the only one that is true.

I can see math was not your strong suit--those equations make no sense. Let me guess--you are some liberal touchy feely feminist man hater I'm guessing???

Shut up Wednesday!!!