Why I am voting for McCain/Palin tomorrow

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

BTW--to clarify--I am not stating that people don't have certain genetic predispositions to certain behaviors. For example, men are more likely to commit crimes, probably because of the effect of testosterone. But to say that a rapist will pass on a "rape" gene that will doom an offspring to be a rapist regardless of environment is absurd in my view.

Don't quote me on this...But I agree with you

 

[Alien Allen]

Do you have any empirical data to support your claim? You are simply spouting rank speculation. The human mind is extremely complex. To claim that a sociopath is "hard wired" and nothing can be done to change it is ridiculous. Human behavior is learned. Unlike many animals that are born with instincts, the human baby is completely and utterly helpless. It must be taught everything. As people grow up, they have interaction with many people--classmates, relatives, teachers, and the list goes on and on--simply because a kid may have loving parents doesn't mean that other influences don't come into play.

Explain to me why the crime in my neighborhood (fairly affluent) is virtually zero while the crime in the poor neighborhoods is rampant? If being a criminal is hard wired and genetic, why isn't crime uniform across all socio-economic strata of society? Also, why do some people reform? Why can someone be a felon in their 20s, yet be a perfectly law abiding citizen in their 40s and 50s? Does a genetic mutation occur after a few decades?

but you have some mass murderers who came from good neighborhoods and good parents. These types did not become that way by causes around them. they were mentally ill and that is hard wired. not something that happened from the environment. IMO

 

[dt3]

Don't quote me on this...But I agree with you

I quoted you and put it in my sig

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I quoted you and put it in my sig

:24::24:


Epic

 

[Fox Mulder]

but you have some mass murderers who came from good neighborhoods and good parents. These types did not become that way by causes around them. they were mentally ill and that is hard wired. not something that happened from the environment. IMO

Well if they are mentally ill, that's a completely different issue--I already stated that mental illness is hereditary, but mental illness does not equate with criminal behavior--most mentally ill people do not commit crimes--in fact, I'd bet money that crime rates are higher with people who are not mentally ill. However, you are now adding a different layer of analysis--that s that all mass murderers are mentally ill, which is absolutely not the case. The issue is the ability to discern right from wrong. We all have urges to do things that don't comport with good behavior (you more than most! :24, but we resist them and do the right thing.

Are you claiming that some people are born with a "crime" gene that means they will be criminals regardless of environment?

 

[Alien Allen]

Well if they are mentally ill, that's a completely different issue--I already stated that mental illness is hereditary, but mental illness does not equate with criminal behavior--most mentally ill people do not commit crimes--in fact, I'd bet money that crime rates are higher with people who are not mentally ill. However, you are now adding a different layer of analysis--that s that all mass murderers are mentally ill, which is absolutely not the case. The issue is the ability to discern right from wrong. We all have urges to do things that don't comport with good behavior (you more than most! :24, but we resist them and do the right thing.

Are you claiming that some people are born with a "crime" gene that means they will be criminals regardless of environment?

Not crime in general. But for people like mass murderers yes

I am not saying that as a generalization. Certainly for some their environment created the monster.

But if you have a mental illess it typically is not something learned but is genetic.

For those people you could raise them anywhere and their sickness will still be there.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Not crime in general. But for people like mass murderers yes

I am not saying that as a generalization. Certainly for some their environment created the monster.

But if you have a mental illess it typically is not something learned but is genetic.

For those people you could raise them anywhere and their sickness will still be there.

But you are making an erroneous correlation between mental illness and mass murderes. As I said before, I would bet that the incidence of crime in the general population of "non mentally ill" people is higher than with mentally ill people. Then of course we have to define mental illness. Is "sick and twisted" the same as "mentally ill". And I have not seen any research stating that mass murderers are mentally ill. Do you have an support for that assertion?

 

[Alien Allen]

But you are making an erroneous correlation between mental illness and mass murderes. As I said before, I would bet that the incidence of crime in the general population of "non mentally ill" people is higher than with mentally ill people. Then of course we have to define mental illness. Is "sick and twisted" the same as "mentally ill". And I have not seen any research stating that mass murderers are mentally ill. Do you have an support for that assertion?

No I don't have any research to support that. Just common sense. I think most psychopaths are mentally ill.

I kept this to mass murderers because clearly non mentally ill people are the norm when it comes to committing crime. Their habits and actions are learned.

probably need to end this as we are not going to agree it appears and we are off topic.

 

[Fox Mulder]

No I don't have any research to support that. Just common sense. I think most psychopaths are mentally ill.

I kept this to mass murderers because clearly non mentally ill people are the norm when it comes to committing crime. Their habits and actions are learned.

probably need to end this as we are not going to agree it appears and we are off topic.

Yes--you are wrong and won't admit it!

Just one last point--sociopath is not synonymous with mentally ill.

 

[valley]

probably need to end this as we are not going to agree it appears and we are off topic.

I dont mind being off topic a bit. I am enjoying the argument.

But if it makes ya feel better....


Vote McCain and make our country a better place!!!

 

[Fox Mulder]

I dont mind being off topic a bit. I am enjoying the argument.

What argument? It is me schooling Alien Allen--there is no debate!

 

[Panic]

Are you saying though that the child of a rapist is more likely to be a rapist? genetics.

No.

Genetic traits are innate and not a learned thing.

That's what I meant. This is why I don't think it's superstitious to associate emotional/mental problems with the offspring of people, not necessarily rapists. I even said generally speaking, not necessarily in regards to abortion.

Just common sense. I think most psychopaths are mentally ill.

lol, that made me laugh. But you're still an alien and must be approached with caution.

 

[Fox Mulder]

lol, that made me laugh. But you're still an alien and must be approached with caution.

This particular Alien you want to avoid at all costs Panic!

 

[Alien Allen]

Yes--you are wrong and won't admit it!

Just one last point--sociopath is not synonymous with mentally ill.

I believe I said psychopath

big difference

 

[Alien Allen]

What argument? It is me schooling Alien Allen--there is no debate!

your doing a fine job since you have reading comprehension issues.

 

[Panic]

Indeed extra terrestrials can be dangerous. But some are gentle. One time I held out some bread to one of them and he ate it gently right from my hand.

 

[Fox Mulder]

your doing a fine job since you have reading comprehension issues.

I don't have reading comprehension problemsl--I change your argument to my advantage!!!

 

[Fox Mulder]

Indeed extra terrestrials can be dangerous. But some are gentle. One time I held out some bread to one of them and he ate it gently right from my hand.

That explains your vote for Obama!!! :24::24::24:

Sorry Panic, I couldn't resist!

 

[Leather N Lace]

Do you have any empirical data to support your claim?

Do you have any empirical data to support your claims? There have been many studies conducted which find that SOME, thought not ALL, sociopaths are genetically wired to be the way they are.

When MRI's are conducted on known sociopaths/psychopaths, and they are shown photographs that depict either violence or emotional items, there are anomalies in the way their brains process information. Often when they see pictures that would tug at a normal person emotionally, the parts of their brain that work out abstract issues become active, and the parts of their brains that would deal with emotional issues remain inactive. These studies back up the theory that these sociopaths are not wired to feel emotions and empathy. They have no remorse, no guilt; no conscience whatsoever. And, many of these studies are conducted on people who have had loving and normal childhoods - yet they are still sociopaths.

You are simply spouting rank speculation.

You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know me. You don't know what kind of reading or research I have done. And yet, here you are accusing me of pulling this information out of my ass. Did you learn how to be such an arrogant prick from your parents, or was it other influences as you grew up?

The human mind is extremely complex. To claim that a sociopath is "hard wired" and nothing can be done to change it is ridiculous. Human behavior is learned. Unlike many animals that are born with instincts, the human baby is completely and utterly helpless. It must be taught everything. As people grow up, they have interaction with many people--classmates, relatives, teachers, and the list goes on and on--simply because a kid may have loving parents doesn't mean that other influences don't come into play.

No, it is not ridiculous. There ARE some individuals who are sociopaths, and who have been tested and been shown to have anomalies in their brain patterns. It has also been shown that these individuals did not have any type of brain injury or damage that caused these anomalies. So where did they come from? Did outside influence change the patterns in their brains?

Are you a scientist? Because scientists have been arguing for years about nature versus nurture -- and they still do not all agree which is more influential -- so how is it that you can emphatically state that all behavior is learned?

Explain to me why the crime in my neighborhood (fairly affluent) is virtually zero while the crime in the poor neighborhoods is rampant? If being a criminal is hard wired and genetic, why isn't crime uniform across all socio-economic strata of society? Also, why do some people reform? Why can someone be a felon in their 20s, yet be a perfectly law abiding citizen in their 40s and 50s? Does a genetic mutation occur after a few decades?

You are not listening (maybe you have a reading comprehension problem). I am not saying, nor did I say, that ALL criminals are hard-wired that way. I said it has been shown that sociopaths (not all criminals are sociopaths) are hard-wired that way. They have no remorse, no feelings, no guilt.

Some people are driven to crime out of desperation or a feeling of not being able to get ahead any other way. Others are involved in crime because of their youth -- and when they have had a chance to mature, they no longer commit crimes.

Maybe if you took a step down from your ivory tower and looked around for a while, you might learn something about the rest of us lowly human beings. (lookie there, I'm rolling my eyes at you now!)

By the way, just google "sociopath" like I did, and you can educate yourself.

 

[wednesday]

You have no idea what you are talking about. You don't know me. You don't know what kind of reading or research I have done. And yet, here you are accusing me of pulling this information out of my ass. Did you learn how to be such an arrogant prick from your parents, or was it other influences as you grew up?

Thats a lil uncalled for......Do you know how to take others opinions without turning into a bit of a sociopath yourself??