Why do you believe in God?

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luc154

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Minor Axis said:
The real problem here is that those who grow up in religious families can have religion drilled into them from a very early age (as has been mentioned in religious threads many times). These "facts" are what the adults are telling you so it must be right-right? You want to believe in heaven and all of the good stuff that is promised, it's a natural result for many religious people.

But those who reject the concept of God, especially the God of any specific religion, who have been raised in religious families, do so because they question and what they are being told does not add up. I don't think a fair God would have a problem with that because (if you believe in him), he did give us the power to reason. Blind acceptance is below the dignity of any intelligent being.
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It is very true that children born into religious families are forced into believing. However, this is not how a person becomes a child of Gods family. You must be born again. This is an act of God. No man can force his child to be a christian. If he does then his child is not a real christian. A child has to come by himself on his own responsibility to God and ask where he stands in His light.
You know the Catholic Church had a conference hundreds (a thousand?) of years ago that decided what to publish in what is considered the present day Bible. That what we read today has been transcribed and deciphered multiple times by an organization with an agenda. The agenda is fidelity to God through the power here on Earth, the Church. Blanket acceptance of the official book of any religion should not be accepted without question. And if you question, then the issue, as always boils down to your faith. It's just a book. It's your faith that makes it what it is or is not.
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Question the Bible, research it. That will be a good start. You will see however that the Bible is not just a book.
 
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pladecalvo

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luc154 said:
I have investigated the Bible and found that this book cannot come out of mere human creatures.
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...and what are your academic or theological qualifications that allow you to make this claim? Perhaps what you meant to say was was:

"I have investigated the Bible and believe that this book cannot come out of mere human creatures."

It is not like any other book ever written.
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On the contrary, It is exactly like any other holy book that has been upheld by other religions as the "Word" of their god/gods.


The men who wrote this must have had some supernatural source working in them
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Pure conjecture and wishful thinking.


You see hundreds of fulfilled prophecies.
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Ah yes, the "fulfilled" prophecies again. As I previously stated, it doesn't matter how many prophecies you allege are fulfilled....it is a fact that there are prophecies that are proven to have failed and just one of these is enough to show that the Bible is inaccurate and untrustworthy.

Writings of 40 different people from all classes that all say the same thing, no contradictions,
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Please tell me that you are joking here.


Note that Irenaeus was well entrusted with Jewish and Christian theology. He was the right man for the job to determine which gospels belonged to the Bible.
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According to whom?


Many of the non-canonical gospels (Philip, Thomas, Peter, James ...) were not harmoniously consistent and not in accordence with the teachings of the Lord Jesus.
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You just said that the Bible consisted of ".....Writings of 40 different people from all classes that all say the same thing, no contradictions...." So why would Irenaeus feel that so much had to be left out? I'll tell you. Because that which was left out indicated a completely different Jesus than the Jesus the Church wanted.

God will make sure that His book will be given down generations the way He has ordained it.
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Considering there are thousands of different denominations of Christianity that disagree what the Bible says....he hasn't done a very good job has he?
 
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luc154

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pladecalvo said:
...and what are your academic or theological qualifications that allow you to make this claim? Perhaps what you meant to say was was:

"I have investigated the Bible and believe that this book cannot come out of mere human creatures."
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If you know the Bible, especially the New Testament you will see that these men, who boldly went into the synagoges knowing they would be killed, mocked, stoned, were almost all not learned. They were fishermen, shepperds, farmers. Yet they gave bold testimony to the Jewish counsel. Even the learned religious leaders were impressed with what these simple men knew about Gods word:Acts 4:13:
'When they saw the courage of Peter and John and realized that they were unschooled, ordinary men, they were astonished and they took note that these men had been with Jesus.'

Ofcourse it takes logic, reason and intelligence to understand the Bible, but the key to the hidden secrets is the holy Spirit. It is He that reveals Scripture. So I am not learned but I have been reading the Bible under guidance of Gods Spirit for 4 years now.
On the contrary, It is exactly like any other holy book that has been upheld by other religions as the "Word" of their god/gods.
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You say that because you don't see the revealed secrets. You need the Spirit for that, which you are rejecting time and time again.
Pure conjecture and wishful thinking.


Ah yes, the "fulfilled" prophecies again. As I previously stated, it doesn't matter how many prophecies you allege are fulfilled....it is a fact that there are prophecies that are proven to have failed and just one of these is enough to show that the Bible is inaccurate and untrustworthy.

Please tell me that you are joking here.
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No joke, I have yet to meet a person that can show me one contradiction in Gods Word.
According to whom?


You just said that the Bible consisted of ".....Writings of 40 different people from all classes that all say the same thing, no contradictions...." So why would Irenaeus feel that so much had to be left out? I'll tell you. Because that which was left out indicated a completely different Jesus than the Jesus the Church wanted.
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Amen. Irenaeus made sure no false teaching would pollute the word of God.
Considering there are thousands of different denominations of Christianity that disagree what the Bible says....he hasn't done a very good job has he?
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If you see the difference between the Dead Sea Scrolls and a Christian Bible you can now buy in your local book store, I would say God has done a job well done. 98,5% of the OT we have now is equal to these scrolls.
 
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pladecalvo

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luc154 said:
Judas hung himself in the potters field (Matthew 27:5) and then after his body decayed and bloated, evidently the rope broke and he burst into pieces on the land of the potters field (Acts 1:18-19)
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Matthew 27:3-10
3 Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.”
And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!”
5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.
6 But the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the price of blood.” 7 And they consulted together and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. 8 Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, 10 and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me.”


Acts1: 15-19
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Now luc. Please show me ANYWHERE in the above where there is ANY mention of bodies decaying and ropes breaking. What you have done is ADD something that isn't there in order to claim that there is no contradiction.

Please note what your Bible says about adding things that are not there:
Revelation 22:18
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:





 
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luc154

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pladecalvo said:
Matthew 27:3-10
3 Then Judas, His betrayer, seeing that He had been condemned, was remorseful and brought back the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4 saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.”
And they said, “What is that to us? You see to it!”
5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself.
6 But the chief priests took the silver pieces and said, “It is not lawful to put them into the treasury, because they are the price of blood.” 7 And they consulted together and bought with them the potter’s field, to bury strangers in. 8 Therefore that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day.
9 Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, “And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, 10 and gave them for the potter’s field, as the LORD directed me.”


Acts1: 15-19
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples (altogether the number of names was about a hundred and twenty), and said, 16 “Men and brethren, this Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke before by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus; 17 for he was numbered with us and obtained a part in this ministry.”
18 (Now this man purchased a field with the wages of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst open in the middle and all his entrails gushed out. 19 And it became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem; so that field is called in their own language, Akel Dama, that is, Field of Blood.)

Now luc. Please show me ANYWHERE in the above where there is ANY mention of bodies decaying and ropes breaking. What you have done is ADD something that isn't there in order to claim that there is no contradiction.

Please note what your Bible says about adding things that are not there:
Revelation 22:18-19
If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
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As I have mentioned to you before, Scripture not only reads theologically, intelectually but also logically.
 
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pladecalvo

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luc154 said:
As I have mentioned to you before, Scripture not only reads theologically, intelectually but also logically.
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Squirm, twist and wriggle all you want luc. You have added something that isn't there. You have interpreted it to say what you want it to say. It is your personal interpretation to avoid clear contradiction.

"Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God." - 2 Peter 20-21

Congratulations dude....you've just met someone that can show you a contradiction in the Bible.
Would you like some more?
 
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