Why are you liberals, liberal . . .

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FreeWorkVest

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When I was a kid, I thought liberal related to library, so I thought a liberal was someone who read books from the library.

I wasn't the sharpest knife in the deep end of THAT pool
 
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Fox Mulder

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I am a liberal in the sense that Mulder is talking about.

I am a liberal because I believe the government has a resposibility to protect and provide for those who cannot or will not protect and provide for themselves.

I am a liberal because I believe that those who are enriched by the government have a moral responsibility to return the favor (IE taxes)

I believe that the wealthiest country in the world should have NO : homelessness, starvation, people dying because they could not afford healthcare, illiterate or uneducated citizens.

And I wish there was Santa Claus!!! (rolleyes)

Got to get more smileys in this forum.
 

Fox Mulder

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I believe that the wealthiest country in the world should have NO : homelessness, starvation, people dying because they could not afford healthcare, illiterate or uneducated citizens.

And how exactly are the illiterate uneducated people that work in government going to fix all that? Seriously--this is the problem you liberals all have--you believe in a Eutopia that A) isn't possible and B) would completely sterlize society even it was. I'd love to have sex with Angelina Jolie. I'd love to score 50 points in an NBA game--I'd love to throw 6 touchdown passes in an NFL game. Don't you liberals understand that government can't fix that stuff.

And the REASON we are the wealthiest country in the world is BECAUSE we don't have a socialist economy like many other countries do. Another thing that simply cannot be driven into the head so liberals. I honestly believe most of you were dressed by your mothers until you were 25 and got a nice cookie in your lunch pale everyday.

Now let me give you the perfect example of stupid liberal fiscal policy--the "living" wage. I would be my house that you and every other self proclaimed liberal in this thread probably cheered the raising of the minimum wage as a victory for the poor when in reality what it did was make things that much worse for the large majority of the poor---cost people jobs--cost America jobs and did nothing but give teenagers extra money for movies and popcorn. Look--I don't why its so hard for people--even those with little education in economics to understand that you can't legislate a "living wage." Hell, if it was REALLY that easy, why not just raise everyone's wage to $20 or $40 or $50? You know why tha won't work--because the laws of economics will simply equalize it--its like dumping water in the shallow end of a pool and expecting that you can fill it to the level of the deep end--it is really that stupid yet every liberal I know bemoans how low the minimum wage is. Get this through your heads--its NOT a living wage--you can't legislate a living wage anymore than you can legislate the laws of physics.
 

Fox Mulder

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Universal Healthcare, Free education, Welfare, Public Housing... They hurt the poor?

Or I dunno, maybe we are liberals because we belivie in Social Justice, Equality and individual liberty.

Yes---they hurt the poor. Let's take them one at a time:

Let's start with the easiest one--free education. First of all--please learn something for once in your life--NOTHING IS FREE. That basic flaw in your logic will continue to bring your to erroneous and uneducated decisions--which is why you are liberal to begin with--if you understood that basic concept you'd be a lot farther along.

Now by "free education" I assume you mean "public" education. Public education is NOT a liberal concept--its been around for centuries. And if you think public education has helped the poor, then you obviously have not been to a public school in the inner cities. The poor are getting screwed by the Democrats because the government unions have them by the proverbials balls. When you poll the inner city black parents about school vouchers (i.e., give them money to send their kids to a private school) they OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT IT. Yet, we will NEVER have a voucher system because the government unions are too powerful and control the Democratic party. You liberals love to talk about big corporations controlling government---well get educated--the top 9 of 10 donors to politicians are unions. The very people liberals swoon over (poor inner city blacks) are being screwed by those same liberals with a completely inadequate public education system. Oh--and don't say we need to spend more money because we arlready spend more money per student in the US than any other industrialized nation and we have the lowest scores--private schools can do the job much better and cheaper. It an easy solution to "help the poor" and the liberals will never allow it.

Universal Healthcare. The poor ALREADY HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE--its callled Medicaid (or Medi-Cal in California. If you GIVE people healthcare, a significant share of them will over-utlize it like what happens in Canada meaning the poor will have to long waiting lists to see a doctor--the rich--they'll just pay to get it quicker. Oh--and the tax rates will go up significantly to to pay for it causing a loss of jobs--most of which will be low level paying jobs--again screwing the poor.

Public Housing--have you ever been to a public housing project? Seriously--have you--because you can go to any inner city in America and see them rotting and empty--eye sores--run down dilapidated places--they came to symbolize inner city ruin. I can't believe that you even brought that up--that's by far the biggest failure of the many stupid liberal policies over the decades.

Welfare--this one is fine on a short term basis. However, welfare ENSLAVES many more people than it helps. People are much happier and more fulfilled when they earn what they have.

Now let me tell you why you have the philosophy you have--it has far less to do with helping the poor and far more to do with "rich envy"--that is most liberals are angry that some people have so much rather than being concerned about those that have so little. You'd rather not see rich people because then you don't have to feel envy.

And finally--tell me in your infinite liberal wisdom--how in the world and who decides who is "entitled" to welfare or disability and how much do you pay them? Because as soon as you "give" people enough to be comfortable (as oppossed to barely scraping by) then guess what happens--a lot of people become "disabled" and unable to work. Who the hell is going to work when you can live comfortably on social benefits?

So that's why stupid liberal fiscal policies don't work. I have no problem, btw, with social engineering, but it only works if you do it by tax incentives, not tax penalties. A good example of that is a tax policy that designates areas as "blighted" and gives significant tax incentives to business to both invest there and hire people who live in the area. But guess what--tax breaks for the rich is the same tired rhetoric you hear from liberals. Let's just build housing projects instead of giving tax incentives to re-juvenate the areas!

Taxing people more for making more is counter-productive. We should scrap the entire income tax system (which is the biggest stupid liberal fiscal policy of all) and replace it with a national sales tax--that alone would save hundreds of billions of dollars alone in what we save trying to enforce the income tax system. Its ridiculous to try and track income--tracking purchases is a helluva lot easier to do.

So liberals consider yourselves educated. I don't expect most of you to understand this--you're too blinded by liberal fiscal ignorance.
 

Fox Mulder

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All you non--liberals--the next time some liberals give you the same bullshit about how corporations control the government, direct them to this link:

OpenSecrets | Top All-Time Donors

This is the biggest example of liberal hypocrisy--the major political contributors are unions--government unions are fleecing the public shool system--those inner city kids dont' get a good education and so the cycle of poverty will never be broken--not as long as we allow unions to control it.
 

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Meirionnydd

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Yes---they hurt the poor. Let's take them one at a time Now by "free education" I assume you mean "public" education. Public education is NOT a liberal concept--its been around for centuries. And if you think public education has helped the poor, then you obviously have not been to a public school in the inner cities.

I attend what you might define as a 'inner city' public school, so yeah.

The poor are getting screwed by the Democrats because the government unions have them by the proverbials balls. When you poll the inner city black parents about school vouchers (i.e., give them money to send their kids to a private school) they OVERWHELMINGLY SUPPORT IT. Yet, we will NEVER have a voucher system because the government unions are too powerful and control the Democratic party. You liberals love to talk about big corporations controlling government---well get educated--the top 9 of 10 donors to politicians are unions.

Do you think that the United States is the only country on the planet? All you seem to talk about is how 'stupid liberal fiscal' policies' hurt the poor in the United States, just because 'liberal fiscal policies' might be a failure in the US in your eyes (and I am sure many people here will debate you on that). Doesn't by any means make them a failure across the entire world.

The very people liberals swoon over (poor inner city blacks) are being screwed by those same liberals with a completely inadequate public education system.

This is in what country?... oh thats right, the United States. I honestly don't see a problem with the public education in Australia, its well funded and resourced. But yeah, just because you think that public education doesn't work in your little side of the world. Doesn't mean its failed everywhere else.

Oh--and don't say we need to spend more money because we arlready spend more money per student in the US than any other industrialized nation and we have the lowest scores--private schools can do the job much better and cheaper. It an easy solution to "help the poor" and the liberals will never allow it.

Cheaper?.... Nah. Better? I dont' really think so. Many private schools either 'teach to the test' or give out abusrdly easy exams or assignments to ensure the students pass. I don't think parents would be too happy to see that they paid $40,000 worth of fees over the school year in order to see their students fail.

Universal Healthcare. The poor ALREADY HAVE UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE--its callled Medicaid (or Medi-Cal in California.

rly?! I never said the poor didn't have universal healthcare.

If you GIVE people healthcare, a significant share of them will over-utlize it like what happens in Canada meaning the poor will have to long waiting lists to see a doctor--the rich--they'll just pay to get it quicker. Oh--and the tax rates will go up significantly to to pay for it causing a loss of jobs--most of which will be low level paying jobs--again screwing the poor.

In Australia the Medicare levy (Universal healthcare) is taxed at 1.5% of your income, and it free healthcare for every Australian. Not exactly a significant tax rate rise either.

Public Housing--have you ever been to a public housing project? Seriously--have you--because you can go to any inner city in America and see them rotting and empty--eye sores--run down dilapidated places--they came to symbolize inner city ruin. I can't believe that you even brought that up--that's by far the biggest failure of the many stupid liberal policies over the decades.

Well no, I haven't been to a housing project in the United States. You ever been to one in Australia? I can't say they are the same here as you describe them being over there. They aren't rotting eye sores that come to symbolise inner city ruin. I could take some photos of some public housing next time I go out and post them here if you like.

Welfare--this one is fine on a short term basis. However, welfare ENSLAVES many more people than it helps. People are much happier and more fulfilled when they earn what they have.

I am going to disagree with you there. Can you please explain in deeper detail by what you mean by that statement?

So liberals consider yourselves educated. I don't expect most of you to understand this--you're too blinded by liberal fiscal ignorance.

Honestly, stop insulting people. You've done it several times in this thread. Everyone has different opinions on politics. Just because someone thinks diffrently from you on a subject, don't label them as uneducated and ignorant. No single view is 'right' or 'correct' when it comes to dicussing politics, thats why these things are hotly debated.
 

Tim

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Honestly, stop insulting people. You've done it several times in this thread. Everyone has different opinions on politics. Just because someone thinks diffrently from you on a subject, don't label them as uneducated and ignorant. No single view is 'right' or 'correct' when it comes to dicussing politics, thats why these things are hotly debated.


You sir are 100% correct.

This is the debate section and will remain as such. We do not want this to turn into a fight/attack where members are flaming each other.

I appreciate your passion on this subject Fox Mulder and welcome your outlook on this topic, but refrain from attacking the people who hold different views and go after the views instead.

Thank you
 

Fox Mulder

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You sir are 100% correct.

This is the debate section and will remain as such. We do not want this to turn into a fight/attack where members are flaming each other.

I appreciate your passion on this subject Fox Mulder and welcome your outlook on this topic, but refrain from attacking the people who hold different views and go after the views instead.

Thank you

Would you point out please where I attacked anyone?
 

GraceAbounds

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I honestly believe most of you were dressed by your mothers until you were 25 and got a nice cookie in your lunch pale everyday.

So liberals consider yourselves educated. I don't expect most of you to understand this--you're too blinded by liberal fiscal ignorance.
Remarks like this are just uncalled for. They do nothing to help your argument. In fact they hurt your argument.

Attack the issues only.
 

Fox Mulder

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Remarks like this are just uncalled for. They do nothing to help your argument. In fact they hurt your argument.

Attack the issues only.

That's a generic statement--I didn't single out anyone. If you want to see an example of insutling someone, here's a few:

This guy kinda seems like a prick, just my opinion.


I love how you think that we need you on this forum. Now I love new members joining, but not when they think they are better than the other members. That's how you're kind of coming across (seriously who talks about themselves in third person other than self obsessed fools).


These were both directed at me. Now--I don't really care, but just sayin if you want some credibility as a forum you need consistency. And I am fairly sure that if Tim shared view from the right rather than the left, he wouldn't be concerned. I find liberals don't like to be challenged on their opinions with facts because the facts prove the many of the policies are well, stupid. That's an opinion. If you think that's bad, turn on any political debate show and you'll see much worse.

Do you people actually want debate or do you want your debate? Do liberals actually embrace freedom of expression or only their own expression.

Points to consider before you ban me.
 

Fox Mulder

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Tim, I thought when you made this post that you actually meant it:


[B said:
Reckless Tim[/B] ]
Ok folks, we haven't picked up many new and exciting people here lately. It's time to start a recruitment campaign. I suggest we go to as many "cool" forums as we can and steal their funny and witty members. May I suggest a sample post....?

Sample:
Hello fellow members of <Insert forum name here> My good friend recommended that I check out this site, She said that it was a lot of fun here and everyone was so nice. I see what she means, you guys have some funny f*****g s**t here. But where are all the booby pics at? And why are my f*****g adjectives being edited? What the f**k? This b***s... I'm going back to the BEST forum on the internet, a place where they don't edit your f*****g g*d d****d posts. This s**t s***s donkey a**. I hope to see some of you cool guys over at OffTopicz.com where they let you see boobars and don't edit your adjectives with ****'s


Anyway, no need to ban me--I'll be moving on to another forum where freedom of expression is actually an important concept--you'll find that in the first amendment if you're interested.
 

GraceAbounds

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That's a generic statement--I didn't single out anyone. If you want to see an example of insutling someone.
Whether they are generic or not, you are having a conversation with someone therefore making it obvious who you are talking to. Denying the behavior doesn't change the fact. And instead of addressing your own behavior, you try to shift blame by pointing out someone else's behavior, which I am sure Tim will deal with as well.

It is a shame you feel like you need to leave just because you are being asked to attack the issue, as I have enjoyed reading the exchange here for the most part.
 

NicAuf

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Mulder just to throw my two cents in, those things I said of you I stand by them, however I didn't say that during a debate.
 

DavyBoy

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This is a question I have often wondered Mulder, just as I have wondered what makes conservatives conservative, Greenies green, and 'centrists' like myself have to deal with splintered arses from all the fence-sitting. ;)

However, your question is an aggressive one - you don't actually want to know, you just want to hang shit on all the 'liberals' by using as many stereotypes and simplistic views as you can.

An intelligent person would realise that the world is not divided between 'liberals' and 'conservatives', but instead made up of many, many different ideologies, that only start being grouped together when people stop thinking for themselves and start associating themselves with groups.
 

darkcgi

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its a two sided thought
on one side you have the feelings emotions and care but not care to the extreme
on the otherside you have reality what is factual science and care to the extreme even if its forced

very simple
survivial or short term almost but not quite complete happiness
you choose
you can say that there is more to it than that and blah blah blah but
for every instance it all falls back on what i just said

we get wrapped up in moments and whatever and dont want to back down once we have started
because we dont want to be wrong but
what is real is real and what aint aint
and everyone knows it whether they want to admit it or not
 
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