Vegetarianism

[COOL_BREEZE2]

You are generalizing too much there--certainly many people do have an unhealthy diet, but it is due to too much meat and/or the wrong kinds of meat. A diet of lean meats, grains, fruits, and vegetables is much easier to make healthy than a vegetarian diet. The problem with a vegetarian diet is the lack of useable protein (unless you are consuming a significant amount of eggs, milk, cheese and other diary products). Vegans have a helluva time getting enough useable proteins--you have to be very strict with your diet.

As people already pointed out, moderation is best--human beings are intended to be omnivores--with a healthy dose of fruits, grains, and vegetables. You certainly can get a healthy diet as a vegetarian, just takes more discipline and more time, which most people just don't have.

:homo:

I'm a meat-mouth myself. Loves me my chicken anything. Not too hot up on red meat tho but wouldn't refuse. Bad manners. Strimps. I like strimps too....'specially garlic strimps.

But really, variety is the spice of life....that's my motto.
You just got to have a balance and as you said above, moderation is best.....well except for strimps. You could eat all the strimps you want. :nod:. True story.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Meat isn't necessary to live healthily. There doesn't need to be a "balance of meat and vegetables", thats a myth. In fact research shows that vegetarians are overall healthier than meat eaters.

Funny how a lot of vegetarians look sickly.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

I like my meat pink and warm in the middle.

But that's just me...

Only one thing I like pink and warm in the middle.

:humm:I think this could be code for gracie knowing where her G-spot is. :dunno

Don't flame, just observing. :24:

hehe. You picked up on that too huh?

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

To be frank, it's because AEF likes to argue, and even something as innocuous as considering vegetarianism he can find a way to argue about it. It started to devolve right here
AEF knows that people on this board aren't going to just let an overgeneralization (which it is) like that slide.
Also, people will take issue with this. That's just asking for it.

_____________________________
can't really blame him when he's put on the defensive, though. Even if he brought it on himself...
see: Modus Operandi

You really don't need "scientific proof" for something like people living just fine without meat ever since humans came up with the concept thousands of years ago. They just do with out meat. Its fairly obvious that meat is just personal preference in diet.

whoa WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA
you need scientific proof for EVERYTHING

See what I'm saying...

Cold as ice. Bloody cold as ice. :nod:

Well of course I do. Geez! :thumbup

Bravo. :clap

 

[All Else Failed]

whoa WHOA WHOA WHOA WHOA
you need scientific proof for EVERYTHING

Yes, there is science behind everything, but if its something as obvious as people being able to survive just on plants, fruits and grain...I don't see why you would want scientific data behind something that is just a simple given? Thats like asking if humans can survive without any food. There's science behind why they can't, but do you really need the story behind why when the answer is just common sense?

Funny how a lot of vegetarians look sickly.

well according to all the research meat eaters are the ones with more health problems.

 

[All Else Failed]

Not sure what you mean by "your body absorbs protein from vegetables better and more efficiently than it does with meat", but vegetable protein is absolutey not more efficient than animal protein from a chemistry point of view. Animal protein is a "complete protein" because the amino acids are in the correct proportions so that each gram of protein can be fully absorbed and utlized by the human body. Vegetables have incomplete proteins--that is you must combine varied vegetables to obtain the proper balance of amino acids to make it useable protein. A complete protein is obviously more efficient than an incomplete protein no matter how you slice it. And that's the reason that Vegan diets are so dangerous--esepcially in growing children where pediatricians would absolutely advice against it. It is simply very difficult to obtain the right amounts of useable proteins without eggs and diary products.

Protein is protein, yes, but your body's nutrient receptors in your large and small intestine absorb and break down planets easier than meat.


Yes, vegans have trouble getting protein, but we're not talking about veganism, we're talking about vegetarianism. Most vegetarians have no problem with dairy products, so they get complicate proteins as well.

 

[Dana]

actually obesity can be blamed on a number of facts, that being lifestyle, genetics, medical illness, I think you have your facts on obesity a little mixed up my friend.

i didn't say there werent a number of facts that play into it. I just don't think the consumption of red meat is as bad as he's portraying it. Anyways... continue...

 

[Dana]

Funny how a lot of vegetarians look sickly.

lmfao

 

[All Else Failed]

Yes--no problem getting enough useable protein with a vegetarian diet that includes dairy and eggs.

Does a vegetarian diet include fish?

No. But there is a thing called "pescatarianism" where the only flesh they consume is fish.


About the "vegetarians look sickly" comment, I've never met one that looked poor of health. In fact most of them are rather built...

 

[groundpounder]

...I don't see why you would want scientific data behind something that is just a simple given?...but do you really need the story behind why when the answer is just common sense?

I think I'm falling in love with you. I'm bursting at the seams over here - heh heh

I don't need scientific evidence/data for everything in my life. You've said repeatedly that you do, however, and especially when it comes to spiritual matters. You've said in countless arguments that if it cannot be verified, you won't waste your time and will dismiss those on the other side of a discussion until they can come to you with proof/empirical scientific evidence. You've always trumped anything else.

I don't want this to deteriorate into another "there is no God" thread. I only bring that up to point out that you have applied science where it's convenient and now dismissed it where it's not. That's not the hallmark of consistency and credibility. One thing you ARE credibly consistent at is using red herring comments like asking if humans can survive without any food. C'mon, that's SO cunning. To the untrained eye, that's skill maneuvering. To someone like me, it's a blatant surrender because you're trying to pull the argument off point.

Common sense is NOT scientific because it's relative and subjective, so you can't howl about the scientific process and Accam's Razor in one thread and trot out the common sense angle in another. At least not in the unequivocal fashion that you do.

The human race has been omnivores for countless generations, and we're living longer now that at any point in modern recorded history. What evidence besides common sense do you have that vegetarianism has been around for thousands of years? Or that it's a healthier lifestyle? Just because you or others proponents of it say so?

Not on my watch.

 

[Obdurate]

Haha well, fair enough, all of you. Especially groundpounder for his last post. Consistency, it's a wonderful thing.

I don't have anything to add to this debate, and I don't know if I said this already, but I want to become a vegan just because I don't like the idea of eating meat and dairy, though I actually like the meat and dairy. I have to ignore what I'm doing to eat it. And I just don't want animals to be slaughtered like they are. If they're gonna be killed for our consumption, than they definitely need to implement more efficient methods into doing it, which some places are, apparently. That's all I'll say about that.

But the thing is, it's ultimately a dietary choice. If I can't find enough food that I like, well what am I gonna do? I'm a pretty picky eater, and my gf is even more so, and she's considering veganism as well. Plus, and I could be wrong here, vegan food tends to be more expensive, is it not? It always seems more time consuming but I supposed that would depend on what you're eating. And another thing, some really nice restaurants here don't serve that much in the way of vegan friendly food. My willpower is also pretty poor, it seems.

So what I'm trying to say is, I agree with the vegan philosophy but don't know if I'm able to live it, and it's not at the top of my "activist (lol) to-do list." At least I'm honest.

 

[groundpounder]

Haha well, fair enough, all of you. Especially groundpounder for his last post. Consistency, it's a wonderful thing.

So what I'm trying to say is, I agree with the vegan philosophy but don't know if I'm able to live it, and it's not at the top of my "activist (lol) to-do list." At least I'm honest.

Thanks and thanks...:thumbup

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

About the "vegetarians look sickly" comment, I've never met one that looked poor of health. In fact most of them are rather built...

I've seen quite a few that do.

 

[All Else Failed]

I've seen quite a few that do.

and I've seen meats eaters that look sickly.

 

[groundpounder]

I've seen heavy smokers who look great and have heavy smokers in my family who lived to their late 80's. Who gives a fuck?

 

[groundpounder]

have an uncle (by marriage) who dropped dead at 46 from a heart attack and was the picture of health.

Who gives a fuck?

Anectodotal evidence is shit, fellas

 

[All Else Failed]

have an uncle (by marriage) who dropped dead at 46 from a heart attack and was the picture of health.

Who gives a fuck?

Anectodotal evidence is shit, fellas

Heart attacks are more often attributed to stress, anxiety and inflammation. What he victim to any of those?

 

[groundpounder]

doesn't matter - it's anectodatal evidence and not the basis of anything scientificalated that you were so previously fond of until it suited you in this thread to toss it aside and all of a sudden start using something else as a basis for your obtuse opinions.

 

[groundpounder]

Heart attacks are more often attributed to conniptions, palm slaps against the forehead, inflammation of the brain due to over-thinking, twitchy eyes and puckered up asses.

you're putting me on the clock, AEF...

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Humans are omnivores.....

Next?

Oh and you ever wondered why to stay healthy as a Vegan it takes so much work? It's because we are designed to eat plants and meats, that's why.

Personally I think it goes against the very fibre from which man was developed.

and carrots have feelings too......asshole