Trayvon Martin- Tragedy

[Jaybird]

I just have one question for you John.

Do you believe that the eye witness....the only real EYE witness that we know of, that came forward THAT DAY. And spoke to authorities. Lied. And that those screams were not Zimmerman's? Because if so, than the media has done a mighty fine job in distorting this thing. And I find that disgusting on the part of the media. But I want to know if you dispute that EYE witness account.

Please provide any other EYE witness accounts, and I will gladly look at them.

As far as the polygraph, no....would be the short answer, but not the whole answer on whether they can be admissible in FLORIDA. Typically it is the prosecution that is trying to get it entered into evidence, and the defense saying no. If the defense entered a police polygraph into evidence, and the motion was denied, what would that tell you? The motion can be denied by the prosecution, but that could also leave the possibility open for appeals. But they are admissible in Florida if both parties agree to it. Just like any other state that allows them to be admissible. But they can never be used AGAINST you if you do not agree to it. Which is the way it should be. http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/admissability-of-polygraph-tests-in-court.html Oh. and all of that is the same for the 911 calls. ie, the defense can present it. The defense has far more latitude with what can be presented. http://www.jacksonvillecriminallawyerblog.com/2012/02/911_calls_are_recorded_and_can.html

I think I know my state laws much much better than you think I do.

Of course....that would also be justification for not deciding to charge Zimmerman. IE, they got it right. And it is certainly permissible in a Grand Jury investigation as far as I know. And if I was on the Grand Jury, I would give the fact that the defendant passed a polygraph supporting his story some considerable weight. Just my opinion though.

*yawn* this is getting into legal arguments now. And I wish I never posted that post now, as we had to go down the lawyer rabbit hole of whether lie detector test are admissible.

 

[Joe the meek]

Jesus H. Fucking Christ - Come on Joe - you are my oldest internet friend - surely you are not that thick. You gotta be shitting me.......right? Go back and look at the 911 call and the witness statement and tell me you actually believe Martin attacked Zimmerman. The evidence supports that Zimmerman approached Martin.

Must....resist....facepalm........:willy_nilly: This statement tells me you are not paying attention to the 911 call. If you read the transcript and listen to the audio of Zimmerman, Zimmerman states "he is looking at me" and then some time later - 30 seconds to a minute or so - Zimmerman says "he's running away". Then the 911 operator asks "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says "yes". Operator says "You don't need to do that".

After reading the transcript, I believe there is a possibility that Martin came after Zimmerman.

After Zimmerman was told that he didn't need to follow, he said "OK".

There also seems to be a point where Zimmerman didn't know where Martin was at.

How far was Martin away from "home" at that point? I give it the possibility that Martin could of made it home without having to confront Zimmerman.

What I find interesting is that in all the pictures of Martin, including the ones you posted, there is nothing resembling Martin's current physical size. The only answer for that is propaganda.

As I've said before, Zimmerman is a bonehead, but I'm at the point where I believe Martin could avoided the confrontation altogether.

This has been a three ring circus from for sometime on this subject matter, and even with the current president making a comment about this, I do wonder how fair of a trial Zimmerman could get. That said, from what I've read, the feds have already admitted to what Jay has already noted, that this does not look like a hate crime and I get the impression that the feds, who probably know more about the "facts" than what the media has put out, has admitted this case is an uphill battle. That tells me something more than all the celebrities wearing hooded shirts trying to look like Mr. Martin.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I just have one question for you John.

Do you believe that the eye witness....the only real EYE witness that we know of, that came forward THAT DAY. And spoke to authorities. Lied. And that those screams were not Zimmerman's? Because if so, than the media has done a mighty fine job in distorting this thing. And I find that disgusting on the part of the media. But I want to know if you dispute that EYE witness account.

I do not dispute the eye witness account, and the eye witnes account in NO WAY absolved Zimmerman of wrongful death charges. Here is the eye witness's statement:

The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: 'help, help'... and I told him to stop and I was calling 911." Police reports say that Zimmerman had blood on his face and grass stains on the back of his red sweater.

The eye witness DID NOT SEE Martin instigate the agression. The fight was right out in the middle of the complex, so Zimmerman had to have approached Martin, Martin could not have layed in wait and ambushed Zimmerman as you Zimmerman defenders are attempting to claim.

Furthermore - the phone witness STILL places Zimmerman as the accosting agressor and Martin as the defender. So in reality, the evidence is indicating Zimmerman killed the defender and claimed self defense. Zimmerman is not absolved of manslaughter in any way.

Please provide any other EYE witness accounts, and I will gladly look at them.

A police officer is said to have corrected a witness who said she heard Trayvon Martin call for help. ABC News spoke with the witness, a schoolteacher, who confirms that an officer tried to change her statement.

I'm sure more and more evidence will come out before trial. The facts as of right now DO NOT absolve Zimmerman of manslaughter.

As far as the polygraph, no....would be the short answer, but not the whole answer on whether they can be admissible in FLORIDA. Typically it is the prosecution that is trying to get it entered into evidence, and the defense saying no. If the defense entered a police polygraph into evidence, and the motion was denied, what would that tell you? The motion can be denied by the prosecution, but that could also leave the possibility open for appeals. But they are admissible in Florida if both parties agree to it. Just like any other state that allows them to be admissible. But they can never be used AGAINST you if you do not agree to it. Which is the way it should be. http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/admissability-of-polygraph-tests-in-court.html Oh. and all of that is the same for the 911 calls. ie, the defense can present it. The defense has far more latitude with what can be presented. http://www.jacksonvillecriminallawyerblog.com/2012/02/911_calls_are_recorded_and_can.html

You should have put the text you cut and pasted within "quote" brackets so that it couls be determined which words are yours and which were cut and pasted.

I think I know my state laws much much better than you think I do.

I think not. I did the same Google search you did, and the text you quoted was one of the first I looked at. I went on to locate the precidents for the inadmisibility of polygraphs in Florida wheras you stopped - again - when you saw some text you though supported your position. Took me about one additional minute to get the full story.

Of course....that would also be justification for not deciding to charge Zimmerman. IE, they got it right. And it is certainly permissible in a Grand Jury investigation as far as I know. And if I was on the Grand Jury, I would give the fact that the defendant passed a polygraph supporting his story some considerable weight. Just my opinion though.

What a load of gun forum opinion bullshit. Why don't you just admit your opinions are being shaped by your gun forum of choice? You DID quote an entire page of gun forum propaganda, and even though you qualifed that it might be made up, you continue to stick to the gun forum line that Zimmerman is somehow innocent of manslaughter charges.

It may be possible for a Grand Jury to come back with a No-Bill for whatever reason, but they will have to give complete credibility to the polygraph despite having to meet challenges to pass the Frye test for admissibility of scientific evidence under Florida law. In addition to that, they will have to ignore all the other evidence that shows Zimmerman caused and escalated the entire incident.

*yawn* this is getting into legal arguments now. And I wish I never posted that post now, as we had to go down the lawyer rabbit hole of whether lie detector test are admissible.

Yeah Jay - why get into legal arguments when you can just go with the opinions of your fellow "gun forum lawyers".

Why don't you explain the reason you want so badly for Zimmerman to be absolved? Why Jay? You are twisting and turning and ignoring evidence that shows Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter - WHY?

 

[Johnfromokc]

After reading the transcript, I believe there is a possibility that Martin came after Zimmerman.

Explain it with a crayon Joe. After all the evidence that suggests otherwise, you still cling to a possibility with zero tangible evidence to support it.

After Zimmerman was told that he didn't need to follow, he said "OK".

True, but you are ignoring the FACT that instead of agreeing to wait where he was for the police, Zimmerman gave the dispatcher is mobile phone number and asked him to have the police call him when he arrived so that he (Zimmerman) could tell the police where he was.

That indicates yet again Zimmerman was still following Martin. Had Zimmerman stayed where he was, Trayvon Martin would have went home to his family and still be alive today.

There also seems to be a point where Zimmerman didn't know where Martin was at.

Well no fucking shit Sherlock. That PROVES Zimmerman was SEEKING Martin out.

How far was Martin away from "home" at that point? I give it the possibility that Martin could of made it home without having to confront Zimmerman.

Martin was 200 feet from his house, talking on the phone with his girlfriend ON THE SIDEWALK when Zimmerman confronted him.

What I find interesting is that in all the pictures of Martin, including the ones you posted, there is nothing resembling Martin's current physical size. The only answer for that is propaganda.

So in your mind, if Martin looks different than his photo's, then Martin is guilty of getting himself killed? WTF?

The police report said Martin was 160# and other reports said he was 140#. So the fuck what? You Zimmerman defenders are really reaching here to the point of comedy.

As I've said before, Zimmerman is a bonehead, but I'm at the point where I believe Martin could avoided the confrontation altogether.

And therein lies Zimmerman's complete culpability.

This has been a three ring circus from for sometime on this subject matter, and even with the current president making a comment about this, I do wonder how fair of a trial Zimmerman could get.

I agree Zimmerman's defense will be a challenge if this gets to court - as it should have WEEKS ago had the police investigated properly. The outcry for justice started AFTER Martins father went looking for Trayvon and sadly found him in the morgue instead of being told by the Sanfod police like a human being. The fucking Sanford police were so lazy, they did not even look for this kids family with any persistence. How fucked up is that?

That said, from what I've read, the feds have already admitted to what Jay has already noted, that this does not look like a hate crime and I get the impression that the feds, who probably know more about the "facts" than what the media has put out, has admitted this case is an uphill battle.

I don't believe it was a hate crime and never stated such. The evidence (there's that word again) points to Zimmerman not being a racist. Zimmerman is an epic dumbass - but not a racist. The evidence points toward manslaughter, and Zimmerman should be tried in court. If he can manage to be found innocent in court, justice has been done. But for Zimmerman to just get a free pass to walk away from this incident is wrong. That's why millions of people are pissed off.

That tells me something more than all the celebrities wearing hooded shirts trying to look like Mr. Martin.

I couldn't care less about what any celebrity says or does. The EVIDENCE indicates manslaughter charges should have been filed and a thorough investigation performed. That did not happen, hence the national outrage.

 

[Aeval]

Regarding the hoodie...I know hoodies have a connotation of guilt for some reason, but wouldn't the simple fact that the kid didn't want to get wet justify his wardrobe...wasn't it stated it was raining? Why wouldn't he have his hood up?

 

[Johnfromokc]

Regarding the hoodie...I know hoodies have a connotation of guilt for some reason, but wouldn't the simple fact that the kid didn't want to get wet justify his wardrobe...wasn't it stated it was raining? Why wouldn't he have his hood up?

Exactly. The Zimmerman defenders never cease to amaze with all their convoluted excuses. They are looking for anything to justfy the killing of Martin. How fucked up is that?

 

[Jaybird]

I do not dispute the eye witness account, and the eye witnes account in NO WAY absolved Zimmerman of wrongful death charges. Here is the eye witness's statement:

It very well could absolve him of wrongful death charges if it is combined with physical evidence, other witnesses testimony, and his story matches up with everything, and they have no other reason to doubt anything that happened that day.

The eye witness DID NOT SEE Martin instigate the agression. The fight was right out in the middle of the complex, so Zimmerman had to have approached Martin, Martin could not have layed in wait and ambushed Zimmerman as you Zimmerman defenders are attempting to claim.

How do you know? Do you have a map of the complex? Have you walked the complex? Have you had Zimmerman walk the complex with you and recount his story, that he had previously told at the police station? Now, you are flat out making shit up John.

Furthermore - the phone witness STILL places Zimmerman as the accosting agressor and Martin as the defender. So in reality, the evidence is indicating Zimmerman killed the defender and claimed self defense. Zimmerman is not absolved of manslaughter in any way.

Wait. The phone witness that did not come forward until this was a national news story, and the investigation had already been turned over to the prosecution? That phone witness? The phone witness that we do not know what time the actual call ended phone witness? The one that we really have no real idea what happened and only told her story to Martin's attorneys phone witness? Yeah John, that is my point. It is highly suspect. It could be true, but we dont know, and we also do not know if the testimony could ever be considered credible.

A police officer is said to have corrected a witness who said she heard Trayvon Martin call for help. ABC News spoke with the witness, a schoolteacher, who confirms that an officer tried to change her statement.

Wait. The police told a distraught ear witness that hid in her home and didnt even look out her window when she heard screams for help that an eye witness actually saw Zimmerman crying out for help? Okay. So what.

I'm sure more and more evidence will come out before trial. The facts as of right now DO NOT absolve Zimmerman of manslaughter.

The actual real facts that we know of actually could absolve Zimmerman of manslaughter, but I am sure there are more that we do not know.

You should have put the text you cut and pasted within "quote" brackets so that it couls be determined which words are yours and which were cut and pasted.

They were all my words. I only gave a link so you couldnt say I was making shit up. But I guess, instead of that, you accue me of plagiarism. Nice. *rollseyes* Now I wonder why you are so hung up on this case that you have to attempt to character assassinate anyone that disagrees with you. That is very poor form John.

I think not. I did the same Google search you did, and the text you quoted was one of the first I looked at. I went on to locate the precidents for the inadmisibility of polygraphs in Florida wheras you stopped - again - when you saw some text you though supported your position. Took me about one additional minute to get the full story.

You can think whatever you want John. I dont care.

What a load of gun forum opinion bullshit. Why don't you just admit your opinions are being shaped by your gun forum of choice? You DID quote an entire page of gun forum propaganda, and even though you qualifed that it might be made up, you continue to stick to the gun forum line that Zimmerman is somehow innocent of manslaughter charges.

I did post it, and admitted it. And flat out said...Take it with a HUGE grain of salt, and said it was hearsay. Get off your freaking high horse, and come down to reality John.

It may be possible for a Grand Jury to come back with a No-Bill for whatever reason, but they will have to give complete credibility to the polygraph despite having to meet challenges to pass the Frye test for admissibility of scientific evidence under Florida law. In addition to that, they will have to ignore all the other evidence that shows Zimmerman caused and escalated the entire incident.

The Grand Jury will have access to whatever it wants access to. Grand Juries have a very wide latitude. Grand Juries though are typically not used in cases like this. The prosecution typically makes the decision on cases such as this every day of the year. That is their job. The only reason this case is a Grand Jury is because the prosecution didnt want to touch it, and would rather leave any possible bad news up to others. We shall see though what happens.

Yeah Jay - why get into legal arguments when you can just go with the opinions of your fellow "gun forum lawyers".

Why don't you explain the reason you want so badly for Zimmerman to be absolved? Why Jay? You are twisting and turning and ignoring evidence that shows Zimmerman is guilty of manslaughter - WHY?

I have had enough of your crap. Why dont you tell everyone why you want him to ride ole sparky so bad that you will blindly make shit up, and blindly absorb the distorted story that the media has told on the national level, and blindly believe that the cops got there, and were like..."oh, this is self defense. Have a nice day Mr. Zimmerman." And then drove back home to their KKK rally.

So John. GFY.

 

[Jaybird]

Regarding the hoodie...I know hoodies have a connotation of guilt for some reason, but wouldn't the simple fact that the kid didn't want to get wet justify his wardrobe...wasn't it stated it was raining? Why wouldn't he have his hood up?

I have never said anything about a hoodie. I dont care that Martin was wearing a hoodie and walking home from a store, or a clown suit and was walking home from a kids party that he was making balloon animals for them. I am not saying Martin was doing anything wrong while he was walking home when the original call was placed. I just do not know, and never said I did.

 

[Aeval]

I have never said anything about a hoodie. I dont care that Martin was wearing a hoodie and walking home from a store, or a clown suit and was walking home from a kids party that he was making balloon animals for them. I am not saying Martin was doing anything wrong while he was walking home when the original call was placed. I just do not know, and never said I did.

Excuse me? My comment was a general statement, that's it. I didn't realize any and all posts in here were directed at you and your opinion. There has been a bit of an uproar since G. Rivera made the statement that the hoodie is responsible for Martin's death...I just posted my feelings on the subject...that ok?

 

[Jaybird]

Excuse me? My comment was a general statement, that's it. I didn't realize any and all posts in here were directed at you and your opinion. There has been a bit of an uproar since G. Rivera made the statement that the hoodie is responsible for Martin's death...I just posted my feelings on the subject...that ok?

Sure. Its okay. I was only giving my opinion back. Is that okay? *shrug*

 

[Aeval]

Sure. Its okay. I was only giving my opinion back. Is that okay? *shrug*

You just seem to be a tad on the defensive....sarcasm duly noted.

 

[Johnfromokc]

How do you know? Do you have a map of the complex? Have you walked the complex? Have you had Zimmerman walk the complex with you and recount his story, that he had previously told at the police station? Now, you are flat out making shit up John.

Go to Google Maps and type in "2831 Retreat View Cir Sanford Fl 32771". That is the location of the killing. It happend out in the open on the sidewalk. The eye witness statement said only that he came upon the incident as it was in progress. The witness did not state he saw Martin make the first move - only that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

Bottom line, looking at the wide open area in which the incident occurred, Zimmerman had a line of view where he could have simply observed Martin from a safe distance. He could have stayed 100 yards away from Martin if he had chosen to. But Zimmerman CHOSE to confront Martin and run his mouth at Martin. If Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman, he (Martin) had every right to defend himself.

Wait. The phone witness that did not come forward until this was a national news story, and the investigation had already been turned over to the prosecution? That phone witness? The phone witness that we do not know what time the actual call ended phone witness? The one that we really have no real idea what happened and only told her story to Martin's attorneys phone witness? Yeah John, that is my point. It is highly suspect. It could be true, but we dont know, and we also do not know if the testimony could ever be considered credible.

The girl did not know Martin had been killed until DAYS later. Martins father did not know his own son had been murdered until he found him in the morgue.

Do you have children Jay?

Wait. The police told a distraught ear witness that hid in her home and didnt even look out her window when she heard screams for help that an eye witness actually saw Zimmerman crying out for help? Okay. So what.

That witness saw it happen through her window. Your alleged more credible witness fled indoors as well and part of his testimony was from what he witnessed from inside his home:

“When I got upstairs and looked down, the guy who was on top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point,” John said.

The actual real facts that we know of actually could absolve Zimmerman of manslaughter, but I am sure there are more that we do not know.

Only if you IGNORE the FACT that Zimmerman chased Martin down and confronted him. There are extenuating circumstances that make Zimmerman completely responsible for the entire incident.

They were all my words.

LOL...thats hilarious - I guess it is just a coincidence that EXACT phrases from the link were mixed in with "your" words.

I only gave a link so you couldnt say I was making shit up. But I guess, instead of that, you accue me of plagiarism.

You should give credit where it is due. The quote function is easy to use and can enhance one's credibility.

Nice. *rollseyes* Now I wonder why you are so hung up on this case that you have to attempt to character assassinate anyone that disagrees with you. That is very poor form John.

Actually, I simply point out the flaws in your argument and you are getting all upset about it.

You can think whatever you want John. I dont care.

You clearly don't care about the evidence and are convoluting every type of speculation possible in attempts to exhonerate a man who chased a teenager down, violating that teenagers constitutional right to be secure in his person, accosts that teenager, gets his ass kicked, and then shoots the teenager who was only defending himself.

It's quite a stretch to attempt to hold Zimmerman - the aggressor - harmless in this case.

I did post it, and admitted it. And flat out said...Take it with a HUGE grain of salt, and said it was hearsay. Get off your freaking high horse, and come down to reality John.

You say that, yet you continue down that same flawed gun forum line of reasoning. Sorry Jaybird - I call bullshit on your argument.

The Grand Jury will have access to whatever it wants access to. Grand Juries have a very wide latitude. Grand Juries though are typically not used in cases like this. The prosecution typically makes the decision on cases such as this every day of the year. That is their job. The only reason this case is a Grand Jury is because the prosecution didnt want to touch it, and would rather leave any possible bad news up to others. We shall see though what happens.

I agree with you here. The prosecution dropped the ball and has now handed off to the GJ.

I have had enough of your crap. Why dont you tell everyone why you want him to ride ole sparky so bad that you will blindly make shit up, and blindly absorb the distorted story that the media has told on the national level, and blindly believe that the cops got there, and were like..."oh, this is self defense. Have a nice day Mr. Zimmerman." And then drove back home to their KKK rally.

So John. GFY.

LOL....That's pretty convincing of the validity of your argument when you end your post by telling me to go fuck myself.

For the record, I NEVER suggested the death penalty at any time. And you accuse ME of making shit up?

All I have ever suggested is that Zimmerman be charged and tried in court and let the chips fall where they may via the justice system He should never have been allowed to walk away from this killing.

 

[Minderella]

I'm still failing to see the concrete evidence that Zimmerman was the one who attacked Martin first. It could very well be the case that Zimmerman was following Martin, to see where he was going. Martin got scared/had enough, turned around and initiated the attack. I'm not saying that makes Zimmerman "innocent", but I'm just saying that we don't know all the concrete facts of what actually happened.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Here is the location of the killing according to the police report. The orange "X" is the address. The yellow "X" is the approximate location of the killing.

Know where I found this? On Google Maps linked to Free Republic.com - a well known conservative forum. And guess what these conservatives were saying? All the same talking points the Zimmerman defenders are making.

Some people are trying to spin this into a political issue of left against right, black against white. And that is a bunch of fucking BULLSHIT!

This issue is about one human being using poor judgement and killing another. It sould be tried in the courts and decided by a jury.

Yeah Jay - looks like we just figured out why you are a Zimmerman defender.

 

[Jaybird]

Go to Google Maps and type in "2831 Retreat View Cir Sanford Fl 32771". That is the location of the killing. It happend out in the open on the sidewalk. The eye witness statement said only that he came upon the incident as it was in progress. The witness did not state he saw Martin make the first move - only that he saw Martin on top of Zimmerman.

Bottom line, looking at the wide open area in which the incident occurred, Zimmerman had a line of view where he could have simply observed Martin from a safe distance. He could have stayed 100 yards away from Martin if he had chosen to. But Zimmerman CHOSE to confront Martin and run his mouth at Martin. If Martin felt threatened by Zimmerman, he (Martin) had every right to defend himself.

You have no proof that Zimmerman chose to run his mouth of at Martin, nor confronted him first. None. Zero. Zilch. As I already said, if it can ever be proven that Zimmerman 'confronted' Martin first, than I agree with you. Self-defense is a much less justifiable claim. But we have no proof of that. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

Are you actually buying into the line that the media has portrayed in this case? I think you are.

For shits and giggles, I did look up the address on google maps. It doesnt prove anything one way or the other.

We dont know who was walking what way. Who was actually anywhere. We dont know any of those extreme minor details. None John. Have you seen any offical re-enactments John? The police have already said they have not released any re-enactments. Anything with those extreme minor details would never be shared with the public if an investigation was underway. And you may never know those extreme minor details. Every police case does not need to be a public spectacle for Justice to be served John. That would just be silly. Who is playing monday morning quarterback here??

The girl did not know Martin had been killed until DAYS later. Martins father did not know his own son had been murdered until he found him in the morgue.

I understand that. I understand that was extremely hard. And yes, I know he did not know until the next day. He called in a missing person case the next morning, and that is when he found out. I understand that would be difficult.

I also have seen it reported that the police played the 911 calls for Martin's father, and his own father said the screams were not his sons. I would take that...if it was true...as pretty credible.
http://www.examiner.com/charleston-...und-being-punched-when-he-shot-trayvon-martin

Do you have children Jay?

irrelevant. But no. I have never said anywhere that I do not feel for the family. But that doesnt mean I am going to twist facts.

That witness saw it happen through her window. Your alleged more credible witness fled indoors as well and part of his testimony was from what he witnessed from inside his home:

No John. She did not. She flat out stated she actually saw nothing. Yes, the eye witness fled. That is just terrible. He could have stopped this whole thing, but he also chose to not get involved.

He saw someone on top of another person, and the person underneath him pleading for help, and he ran. Could you imagine if you were in Zimmermans shoes at that point. You are bloodied, your nose is busted, you have someone that towers over you by at least a half a foot on top of you, and you see someone and practically beg for help, and the person runs away? Holy crap. What the Fuck is going on in the world when a bystander wont even get involved to stop an assault? No John. All of these witnesses, all of them...should be ashamed of themselves. They heard someone screaming for help, and they did nothing. Oh, they called the police. But that is nothing imo. But....that is purely just my opinion.

Only if you IGNORE the FACT that Zimmerman chased Martin down and confronted him. There are extenuating circumstances that make Zimmerman completely responsible for the entire incident.

You keep saying this. You have absolutely NO evidence that he 'chased martin down' None John. none! I already said, if that happened, I would agree with you. But the actual evidence tells a different story. Tell me, how a 5'9" 28 yr old not only finds, but chases down a 17 yr old 6'3" HS football player? How? He clearly does not know where Martin is at the end of his last call. You know nothing after that fact. You are making blanket assumptions.

Actually, I simply point out the flaws in your argument and you are getting all upset about it.

No. About the only thing I may have gotten upset with is your character assassinations against ME. I dont give a rats ass what you think of Zimmerman. But I dont appreciate you attacking my character because I disagree with you. Get over yourself.

You clearly don't care about the evidence and are convoluting every type of speculation possible in attempts to exhonerate a man who chased a teenager down, violating that teenagers constitutional right to be secure in his person, accosts that teenager, gets his ass kicked, and then shoots the teenager who was only defending himself.

Ha. Its okay John. You believe what you want. I guess we simply disagree with what can be proven, and what can not be proven(from what we know). You keep sucking on the media tit on this one. Enjoy.

It's quite a stretch to attempt to hold Zimmerman - the aggressor - harmless in this case.

I guess we differ on 'aggressor' *shrug*

You say that, yet you continue down that same flawed gun forum line of reasoning. Sorry Jaybird - I call bullshit on your argument.

I call BS to your point of view too. But I dont care. As I said, I have presented enough ACTUAL evidence in this thread. But again, it is all our opinions.

I agree with you here. The prosecution dropped the ball and has now handed off to the GJ.

You have no evidence that they dropped the ball. None.

LOL....That's pretty convincing of the validity of your argument when you end your post by telling me to go fuck myself.

For the record, I NEVER suggested the death penalty at any time. And you accuse ME of making shit up?

All I have ever suggested is that Zimmerman be charged and tried in court and let the chips fall where they may via the justice system He should never have been allowed to walk away from this killing.

He did not walk away from any killing. The prosecution makes decisions every day on cases. Do you honestly think the prosecution just didnt give a shit? That they didnt want to do their job? I find that sad if that is what you believe. I have a bit more confidence in the system than you do obviously. Is our system perfect? Hell no. But....YMMV.

And your damn right I said GFY. If you were not attacking my personal character though, I never would have said it. *shrug*

 

[Jaybird]

Here is the location of the killing according to the police report. The orange "X" is the address. The yellow "X" is the approximate location of the killing.

Know where I found this? On Google Maps linked to Free Republic.com - a well known conservative forum. And guess what these conservatives were saying? All the same talking points the Zimmerman defenders are making.

Some people are trying to spin this into a political issue of left against right, black against white. And that is a bunch of fucking BULLSHIT!

This issue is about one human being using poor judgement and killing another. It sould be tried in the courts and decided by a jury.

Yeah Jay - looks like we just figured out why you are a Zimmerman defender.

As I said, I am not defending anyone. But if you want to believe I am, that is just your opinion. I am just not throwing mud onto Zimmerman like the media is doing. I am looking at the actual facts from an un-biased view. You can think that I am not, but I really dont care if you think it. You are making just as many assumptions about me, as you are making about Zimmerman. But that maybe just the way you are. IDK, nor care. *shrug*

 

[Johnfromokc]

I am looking at the actual facts from an un-biased view.

Thats some funny shit right there Jay. :24::lol You are saying the EXACT SAME THINGS as the Free Republic right wingers and the gun nut sites and you claim facts and a "unbiased view"? Please. :laughat:


Thanks for the laughs.

 

[Jaybird]

Thats some funny shit right there Jay. :24::lol You are saying the EXACT SAME THINGS as the Free Republic right wingers and the gun nut sites and you claim facts and a "unbiased view"? Please. :laughat:


Thanks for the laughs.

Do I care what others agree with me? I have never been to Free Republic as far as I know. *shrug*

But again....it is just more character assassinations. Sad, that is your MO throughout the last 3 or four pages of this thread. You can not argue with my viewpoint, so you try to throw mud at me personally. You are a very poor debater John, and use underhanded tactics to argue your viewpoint.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Do I care what others agree with me? I have never been to Free Republic as far as I know. *shrug*

How many gun forums have you visited lately Jay?

But again....it is just more character assassinations. Sad, that is your MO throughout the last 3 or four pages of this thread. You can not argue with my viewpoint, so you try to throw mud at me personally. You are a very poor debater John, and use underhanded tactics to argue your viewpoint.

Why are you whining and crying Jay? It is a discussion. An adult killed a minor after being told to leave the minor alone and having been trained to know better. Simple.

But you keep on with your circular logic and whining when I point it out.

So tell us Jay - is it just a coinkydink you are making the same argument as the gun nut forum and Free Republic members are making?

 

[Jaybird]

How many gun forums have you visited lately Jay?

Not that it is any of your business, but 1. The one I normally go to. *shrug*

Why are you whining and crying Jay? It is a discussion. An adult killed a minor after being told to leave the minor alone and having been trained to know better. Simple.

I am not whining and crying. Just stop with your accusations against me personally. It is getting really freaking old and stale.

But you keep on with your circular logic and whining when I point it out.

More accusations against me personally John. Again....it is sad.

So tell us Jay - is it just a coinkydink you are making the same argument as the gun nut forum and Free Republic members are making?

IDK, nor care. I dont make assumptions about others like you seem to like to do. But I guess it is why you like to make so many assumptions about Zimmerman as well.

Again, why dont you stop attacking ME? Like I asked 3 or 4 pages ago? Okay John?