"Thou shalt not kill?!"

[Peter Parka]

We appear to be two people separated by a common language Pete. Please clarify "their end away." Sorry.

Had sex.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Had sex.

I'm a conservative remember..... Please clarify? :confused






























:jk

Could you please look up the part you're talking about. You can search an online Bible with built in search software easy enough.

I tend to read the New Testament, so I'm fuzzy on some parts of the old and don't know where it says that. If you point it out though, I promise to look it over 'in context,' and provide you with as much incite as I can.

Deal?

 

[Peter Parka]

Yup. Here's a list including that and other dubious crimes you could get stoned to death for.

Dwindling In Unbelief: Death by Stoning: the Bible vs the Quran

 

[All Else Failed]

We appear to be two people separated by a common language Pete. Please clarify "their end away." Sorry.



By your logic, the state is at fault for everybody who is in prison today. How can you deny it? They sent police out and forcefully detain people against their will, and throw them behind locked bars like animals.

Choices have consequences even in a world of anarchy.

What?


And for the last time, I don't support anarchy!!!


Gee, I didn't know that not following god is a justifiable warrant to commit GENOCIDE on the entire human race. Those unborn babies were such pricks! God's quite the cranky one, isnt he?

 

[All Else Failed]

Not in Democratic Social Anarchism...or something...:cool

I don't support anarchism


Oh and there actually is justice systems in anarchic societies.


Do you know anything about democratic socialism? Or do you drink the classic American kool-aid where socialism is demonized and seen as something bad?

 

[IntruderLS1]

Yup. Here's a list including that and other dubious crimes you could get stoned to death for.

Dwindling In Unbelief: Death by Stoning: the Bible vs the Quran

Part in question:

Deuteronomy 22:13-21 (King James Version)

13If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her,

14And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid:
15Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate:
16And the damsel's father shall say unto the elders, I gave my daughter unto this man to wife, and he hateth her;
17And, lo, he hath given occasions of speech against her, saying, I found not thy daughter a maid; and yet these are the tokens of my daughter's virginity. And they shall spread the cloth before the elders of the city.
18And the elders of that city shall take that man and chastise him;
19And they shall amerce him in an hundred shekels of silver, and give them unto the father of the damsel, because he hath brought up an evil name upon a virgin of Israel: and she shall be his wife; he may not put her away all his days.
20But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: 21Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.

The book of Deuteronomy is the fifth and last book Moses wrote to the people of Israel. He writes these instructions soon before his death, after the years spent wandering in the desert, which came directly after the miracles of Egypt.

When you hear about Christians being "Free from the law," this is the Jewish law we're talking about. Jesus died specifically so we would no longer have to deal with this.

The Jews of this time had been a people without a home for hundreds of years. Though they were many in numbers, their society was ready to begin anew with the occupation of their ancestral lands. Moses lays down "The Law" in order to establish the boundaries of this 'new' society.

He writes the law to Gods standards. Because God and sin are incompatible, a mechanism for temporary cleansing as well as harsh punishments for certain crimes was established.

I am no Biblical historian, but of my understanding of the Old Testament death penalty, it was used in cases which would lead to an unhealthy society. Sexual liberty, despite all the hype is a dangerous thing. Gay sex, despite all the PC we have today is a physically dangerous act to undertake. Sex with animals is physically unsafe.

It was the intention of these early days to set apart the Jews as the example of mankind. They were supposed to live their lives the way it was intended from the beginning. Blasphemy and direct challenge to the authority of God was not accepted, likely because lack of respect is the "gateway" to further, more severe behavior.

If a kid mouths off to his mum, and nothing happens, he will likely do it again. After awhile, he'll likely find something more extravagant to try. With each step down that road, the child's future gets darker. Take that same child, and put a belt mark across his butt when he gets mouthy, he'll likely listen more carefully, do better in school, and have a stronger / happier future. It is the same concept, but on a social scale.

It was understood that mankind had fallen too far to ever reach purity alone. This is why the Savior is talked about (even in the Old Testament).

Remember when I said before that it was important to understand how life works in order to help us in the future? Well, if the Jews were simply given a pass for those thousands of years, how would God ever be able to save the rest of us? In our limited understanding, we would ask "save us from what?" As social and individual conscience died, our hearts would eventually no longer be able to soften enough to hear the gentle wisdom that is the Lords voice.

Like I was pointing out to AEF a minute ago. Actions have consequences. Those rules were known by everybody. It seems silly to me to cry about being punished when you knowingly and willfully did what you knew would cause said punishment.

 

[All Else Failed]

Like I was pointing out to AEF a minute ago. Actions have consequences. Those rules were known by everybody. It seems silly to me to cry about being punished when you knowingly and willfully did what you knew would cause said punishment.


Do you really think genocide is an exceptable punishment for people wanting to live their own lives?

 

[Peter Parka]

And the consequenses of comitting minor sins was to be stoned to death. Sounds like murder to me and most people I know of.

 

[All Else Failed]

Obey or die! I love you though!

 

[IntruderLS1]

What?


And for the last time, I don't support anarchy!!!


Gee, I didn't know that not following god is a justifiable warrant to commit GENOCIDE on the entire human race. Those unborn babies were such pricks! God's quite the cranky one, isnt he?

The bit about jail is comparison to your bit about God's punishment of man as somehow being His "fault."

Life has consequences, and yes, children pay the price for their parents way of life. It doesn't seem fair, but that doesn't change the facts.

If you decided to get your GF pregnant today, and leave her tomorrow. That child will grow up without a father, and statistically will be FAR more likely to have social / economic problems in his or her life.

If your GF decides she's going to smoke crack every day for 9.5 months of pregnancy, that innocent child will be born with little to look forward to but the end.

It is indeed sad that "The sins of the father" haunt generations to come, but they are human decisions. God pleads with us NOT to make those choices. And yet He is the bad guy when we do??

As an aside, I was not saying you were supporting anarchism. I was making the point that even in total, traditional anarchy, with ZERO rules, choices will still have consequences. i.e. if you choose to knife Triple X's tires, the consequence would be a busted skull.

 

[Peter Parka]

The bit about jail is comparison to your bit about God's punishment of man as somehow being His "fault."

Life has consequences, and yes, children pay the price for their parents way of life. It doesn't seem fair, but that doesn't change the facts.

If you decided to get your GF pregnant today, and leave her tomorrow. That child will grow up without a father, and statistically will be FAR more likely to have social / economic problems in his or her life.

If your GF decides she's going to smoke crack every day for 9.5 months of pregnancy, that innocent child will be born with little to look forward to but the end.

It is indeed sad that "The sins of the father" haunt generations to come, but they are human decisions. God pleads with us NOT to make those choices. And yet He is the bad guy when we do??

As an aside, I was not saying you were supporting anarchism. I was making the point that even in total, traditional anarchy, with ZERO rules, choices will still have consequences. i.e. if you choose to knife Triple X's tires, the consequence would be a busted skull.

I thought God was supposed to be perfect and just. Killing babies because of their parents dosen't sound very just to me!:wtf:

 

[IntruderLS1]

And the consequenses of comitting minor sins was to be stoned to death. Sounds like murder to me and most people I know of.

Death penalty issues will never be settled. If you decide to become a mass murderer, and you get caught; I do not consider it murder for the State to execute you.

We can go round and round for hours, but in the end it is personal opinion.

The Law of Moses is a social structure for an ancient society. A social structure that Christianity did away with. I for one am extremely grateful that we don't have to live under the law anymore.

 

[All Else Failed]

The bit about jail is comparison to your bit about God's punishment of man as somehow being His "fault."

Life has consequences, and yes, children pay the price for their parents way of life. It doesn't seem fair, but that doesn't change the facts.

If you decided to get your GF pregnant today, and leave her tomorrow. That child will grow up without a father, and statistically will be FAR more likely to have social / economic problems in his or her life.

If your GF decides she's going to smoke crack every day for 9.5 months of pregnancy, that innocent child will be born with little to look forward to but the end.

It is indeed sad that "The sins of the father" haunt generations to come, but they are human decisions. God pleads with us NOT to make those choices. And yet He is the bad guy when we do??

As an aside, I was not saying you were supporting anarchism. I was making the point that even in total, traditional anarchy, with ZERO rules, choices will still have consequences. i.e. if you choose to knife Triple X's tires, the consequence would be a busted skull.

ok but do you really think those people deserved to be drowned alive for just wanting to live their own lives the way they wanted them to be? Can you really support genocide?

 

[IntruderLS1]

I thought God was supposed to be perfect and just. Killing babies because of their parents dosen't sound very just to me!:wtf:

I'm not sure if you missed something of what I said or not, but I specifically addressed this not 2 minutes ago. :confused

 

[All Else Failed]

God: "I'm going to create beings whom I know will rebel against me even BEFORE I create them, just so I can drown them all".



LOL

 

[IntruderLS1]

ok but do you really think those people deserved to be drowned alive for just wanting to live their own lives the way they wanted them to be? Can you really support genocide?

It doesn't matter what I believe of their situation.

They were told this was coming. They didn't listen. They were told to change their ways, and they would be saved. They were given a boat, and they would not get on.

If this were a modern situation, and I told you a thousand times that your computer monitor had a bomb in it, planted by a right wing zealot waging a holy war on atheists. Then if I showed you an X-ray of the thing. Then I provided you with a lead blast shield to protect yourself with, but you just REFUSE to listen or take steps to protect yourself, you had better believe I won't feel guilty when you butt gets blown sky high. haha

 

[IntruderLS1]

God: "I'm going to create beings whom I know will rebel against me even BEFORE I create them, just so I can drown them all".



LOL

It's fun to be glib, but we're (humanity) still here. There is a lot of joy in life. Even when times are tough, life is a beautiful gift.

 

[All Else Failed]

It doesn't matter what I believe of their situation.

They were told this was coming. They didn't listen. They were told to change their ways, and they would be saved. They were given a boat, and they would not get on.

If this were a modern situation, and I told you a thousand times that your computer monitor had a bomb in it, planted by a right wing zealot waging a holy war on atheists. Then if I showed you an X-ray of the thing. Then I provided you with a lead blast shield to protect yourself with, but you just REFUSE to listen or take steps to protect yourself, you had better believe I won't feel guilty when you butt gets blown sky high. haha

yeah, warnings don't make genocide ok.

 

[Peter Parka]

It doesn't matter what I believe of their situation.

They were told this was coming. They didn't listen. They were told to change their ways, and they would be saved. They were given a boat, and they would not get on.

If this were a modern situation, and I told you a thousand times that your computer monitor had a bomb in it, planted by a right wing zealot waging a holy war on atheists. Then if I showed you an X-ray of the thing. Then I provided you with a lead blast shield to protect yourself with, but you just REFUSE to listen or take steps to protect yourself, you had better believe I won't feel guilty when you butt gets blown sky high. haha

And this would make the right wing zealot right would it?

 

[All Else Failed]

It's fun to be glib, but we're (humanity) still here. There is a lot of joy in life. Even when times are tough, life is a beautiful gift.

its the truth though, logically. Don't ignore it. He made beings with the knowledge that they would rebel against him but made them anyways just so he could kill them off. No way around it.