"Thou shalt not kill?!"

[NightWarrior]

How's that considered defense if he is attacking your roommate and not you? With your above statements its preemptive killing for you thinking of killing him while he's attacking your roommate. :dunno

 

[Tuna]

Ok, are you aware that in many countries being in the army for men is compulsory? it's not all that much countries where you have to sign up to get in, in a lot you get drafted. You ask me how many soldiers I know? at least 30 ex soldiers, 2 colonels, and 1 general, not to mention that i just finished MY year of army service

 

[IntruderLS1]

"How many soldiers do you know? Most of the soldiers I know fight for patriotism. ALL of the soldiers I know are not forced into anything. We signed up with our own free will... Where did you get these ideas?"



I come from a military family, and none of them have ever said they fought for patriotism. I KNOW that some people sign up for "patriotism" but i personally think that most people sign up for secondary reasons.

Soldiers are forced to go wherever their country tells them to, though.

It has become so cliché' to admit signing up for noble purposes. School money, education, training, etc... All very nice, respectable, PC excuses.

Some people actually do come in for specifically those reasons, and nothing more. I would say 1 in 30 in my experience.

Soldiers sign up under their own free will, and swear an oath to do what is asked of us. That still means something to some people. There are obviously those that it means nothing to, and they claim conscientious objector.

How are they forced into something again?

I didn't know you were a military brat. Dad?

 

[All Else Failed]

You made the argument:



Then you said:


And then:



Finally:


Am I the only one here who has no idea what you're getting at? You're talking in circles.

if i go out and kill someone who I personally thought was a threat to me, I would be murdering.


if someone came into my house and tried to kill me, and I killed them first, that would be defense.


If someone came into my house and tried to kill my roommate, and I helped defend my roommate, I think that would be defense, because I have no idea what that person is going to do after (if) he gets done killing my roommate. if I kill him before he kills my roommate, I'm simply helping defend both of us.

 

[All Else Failed]

It has become so cliché' to admit signing up for noble purposes. School money, education, training, etc... All very nice, respectable, PC excuses.

Some people actually do come in for specifically those reasons, and nothing more. I would say 1 in 30 in my experience.

Soldiers sign up under their own free will, and swear an oath to do what is asked of us. That still means something to some people. There are obviously those that it means nothing to, and they claim conscientious objector.

How are they forced into something again?

I didn't know you were a military brat. Dad?

They are forced to go to any conflict their country tells them to. If they disagree with it and its against what they believe in, they are being forced to go against their will.


My father was a second lieutenant for 25 years in the NAVY/Coast Guard.

 

[NightWarrior]

Ok, are you aware that in many countries being in the army for men is compulsory? it's not all that much countries where you have to sign up to get in, in a lot you get drafted. You ask me how many soldiers I know? at least 30 ex soldiers, 2 colonels, and 1 general, not to mention that i just finished MY year of army service

Ok, well you have to realize that most of us are Americans and we sign up freely to defend our Constitution.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Ok, are you aware that in many countries being in the army for men is compulsory? it's not all that much countries where you have to sign up to get in, in a lot you get drafted. You ask me how many soldiers I know? at least 30 ex soldiers, 2 colonels, and 1 general, not to mention that i just finished MY year of army service

I am aware of conscription armies. I've even worked with a few. Obviously I am talking about a volunteer military. Draftees are a different story as far as reasons for being in.

In my country, it is a choice that can only be made by an able bodies, able minded adult.

If someone came into my house and tried to kill my roommate, and I helped defend my roommate, I think that would be defense, because I have no idea what that person is going to do after (if) he gets done killing my roommate. if I kill him before he kills my roommate, I'm simply helping defend both of us.

Don't look now dude, but you're talking like a soldier.

 

[All Else Failed]

Ok, well you have to realize that most of us are Americans and we sign up freely to defend our Constitution.

I'm glad that you do that, but what about when our own country and this administration is basically shitting on the constitution? Don't you have an obligation to do something about that?

 

[All Else Failed]

I am aware of conscription armies. I've even worked with a few. Obviously I am talking about a volunteer military. Draftees are a different story as far as reasons for being in.

In my country, it is a choice that can only be made by an able bodies, able minded adult.



Don't look now dude, but you're talking like a soldier.

I don't think soldiers defending themselves are murderers, they are defending themselves. I'm talking about groups of soldiers that go out and seek out people to kill.

 

[Tuna]

Like i said earlier, you have to keep in mind that not many countries have policies where people can willingly choose to enter the service, and centuries ago, even more so

 

[IntruderLS1]

They are forced to go to any conflict their country tells them to. If they disagree with it and its against what they believe in, they are being forced to go against their will.


My father was a second lieutenant for 25 years in the NAVY/Coast Guard.

Did you miss the conscientious objector part?

It isn't possible to be a 2nd lieutenant for 25 years man. Not only practically, but legally.

Does the Navy even have second lieutenants? :confused

Sorry.

 

[All Else Failed]

Did you miss the conscientious objector part?

It isn't possible to be a 2nd lieutenant for 25 years man. Not only practically, but legally.

Does the Navy even have second lieutenants? :confused

Sorry.

No, he was in the service for 25 years and got out being a second Lieutenant.


What about conscientious objectors?

 

[IntruderLS1]

Like i said earlier, you have to keep in mind that not many countries have policies where people can willingly choose to enter the service, and centuries ago, even more so

Like I said. I agree with you.

 

[Tuna]

so when this thread started, it was talking about the crusades and other religious wars, all THOSE were conscripted armies, so thats what ive been geting at

 

[IntruderLS1]

No, he was in the service for 25 years and got out being a second Lieutenant.

I don't know how to break this to you, but 2nd Lieutenant is A) Not a Navy rank, and B) the lowest officer rank you can be in the Army, Air Force, or Marines, and C) They kick you out of the officer corps if you don't advance from the rank of O-1 in 4 years, and D) 1st Lieutenant is (also not a Naval rank), but is mostly a matter of time in grade for the services that do have them.

You have either fabricated your fathers service, or ignored everything he ever told you about it for 19 years.

 

[All Else Failed]

I don't know how to break this to you, but 2nd Lieutenant is A) Not a Navy rank, and B) the lowest officer rank you can be in the Army, Air Force, or Marines, and C) They kick you out of the officer corps if you don't advance from the rank of O-1 in 4 years, and D) 1st Lieutenant is (also not a Naval rank), but is mostly a matter of time in grade for the services that do have them.

You have either fabricated your fathers service, or ignored everything he ever told you about it for 19 years.

The Coast Guard is a branch of the NAVY now, I believe.


yes intruder, I'm intentionally lying about my father's military career for kicks.

 

[NightWarrior]

I'm glad that you do that, but what about when our own country and this administration is basically shitting on the constitution? Don't you have an obligation to do something about that?

The only obligation you have as a service member is to follow orders. You don't get paid to think as a soldier.

Did you miss the conscientious objector part?

It isn't possible to be a 2nd lieutenant for 25 years man. Not only practically, but legally.

Does the Navy even have second lieutenants? :confused

Sorry.

No, they have Lt. Junior Grade, and if he retired as that after 25 years, I'd have to question his ability to be an officer and the Navy's ridiculous ability to keep a person that long without promotion. I would have expected him to at least hit Captain after that long. 2nd Lt is a Marine Corps distinction.

 

[IntruderLS1]

so when this thread started, it was talking about the crusades and other religious wars, all THOSE were conscripted armies, so thats what ive been geting at

Yes yes... Crusades and the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments were designed to inform mankind of God's standards. Obviously nobody can ever meet these standards, but they are important to understand for our personal growth.

Jesus came to bring us out from under the oppressive rule of "The Law" and graduated us into a world of fellowship and understanding.

In Christianity, the Old Testament where the 10 Commandments can be found is now a backdrop for the real story that is salvation.

It seems to me your beef may be with Orthodox Jews, and not Christians.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'd appreciate it if you didn't insult my father.

 

[Tuna]

how many people here have actually ben in the army?