The True Meaning of Christmas

[doombug]

It's funny how people get all wrapped around the axle over trivia, completely ignoring the important stuff.
It's like getting into a heated argument after a murderer is executed over whether he pulled the trigger with his index or middle finger.

I agree. I guess that explains how easily some are duped by YouTube videos.

 

[Accountable]

I agree.

Bullshit.

 

[doombug]

Bullshit.

Oh really? Care to elaborate?

 

[Accountable]

Oh really? Care to elaborate?

'k

http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2056303&viewfull=1#post2056303
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057068&viewfull=1#post2057068
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057701&viewfull=1#post2057701
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057708&viewfull=1#post2057708
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057732&viewfull=1#post2057732
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057751&viewfull=1#post2057751
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057758&viewfull=1#post2057758
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057766&viewfull=1#post2057766
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057803&viewfull=1#post2057803

Fictitious, mythical potato(po-tay-to) potato(po-tah-to) what's the difference? My point is what does it matter if something is historically correct or not it doesn't mean there isn't any value to it. I don't think the bible was written as a history book. I think wisdom can be found even in a Charlie Brown cartoon. It seems irrational to me to not consider something useful if it can't be proven factual.

You should have stopped with this post, but instead you buried this succinct and pithy comment under a pile of chest-thumping and peeing on bushes.

 

[doombug]

'k

http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2056303&viewfull=1#post2056303
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057068&viewfull=1#post2057068
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057701&viewfull=1#post2057701
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057708&viewfull=1#post2057708
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057732&viewfull=1#post2057732
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057751&viewfull=1#post2057751
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057758&viewfull=1#post2057758
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057766&viewfull=1#post2057766
http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread...of-Christmas&p=2057803&viewfull=1#post2057803


You should have stopped with this post, but instead you buried this succinct and pithy comment under a pile of chest-thumping and peeing on bushes.

So what? I still stand by that position as well as my other posts. You seem to think it has to be one way or the other. How about you man up and say what you really think...don't be shy.

 

[Accountable]

So what? I still stand by that position as well as my other posts. You seem to think it has to be one way or the other. How about you man up and say what you really think...don't be shy.

I did, as I usually do. That post of yours was succinct and pithy. It is pretty close in spirit to mine:

I wish everybody would take this nudge to look at the secular holiday we call Christmas in the spirit in which it has always been meant to be celebrated. Go out & give a gift of cash to your local retailer & a less valuable gift of crap to a beloved.

It's truly irrelevant to me whether you agree.

 

[doombug]

I did, as I usually do. That post of yours was succinct and pithy. It is pretty close in spirit to mine:


It's truly irrelevant to me whether you agree.

That's great. I guess since you have nothing to say you can run along then.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Doomy argues religion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqs9DYisSsg

 

[doombug]

I gotta tell ya John, you may have some weak ass arguments but at least you have a sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I gotta tell ya John, you may have some weak ass arguments but at least you have a sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

Yeah Doomster - I never put up historically verifiable documentation like you do. Not.

 

[Accountable]

I gotta tell ya John, you may have some weak ass arguments but at least you have a sense of humor. Thanks for the laugh.

What exactly is the argument here?

 

[BornReady]

Greek culture was an influence in the area at that time yes, but if someone was going to write a "myth" during those times why not invent something that would appeal to everyone and wouldn't insult a large number of the population especially those in power.

I don't think that is how legends work. It's not like someone sits down and says I think I'll write a legend. No one is in control of the process. Ideas circulate and the most popular ones win. I'm not a historian but would guess the virgin birth didn't win out over the opposition until the Council of Nicaea.

Looks like the claim this video makes is false.

I didn't watch the video but am sure you're right. I've seen that sort of video before. That idea seems to be growing in recent times. We're seeing the development of a myth before our very eyes.

This is not to say Christianity arose in a vacuum. Religion is cultural and cultures borrow from each other. But the borrowing certainly was not unidirectional. It can not be denied Christianity had a profound effect on the culture of the time and even today.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I didn't watch the video but am sure you're right.

You do realize this is just as ridiculous as the statements Doombug makes don't you?

You don't watch something - but you are sure someone elses conclusion is right?

Yeah - that makes sense.

 

[BornReady]

What exactly is the argument here?

I don't think there's any question Christmas has pagan roots. The Catholic church hijacked and renamed the holiday. This was a good move on their part. Interestingly, Christmas was not a legitimate holiday in America at first. I imagine this was largely due to the protestant rebellion against catholicism. It was actually illegal to celebrate Christmas in Massachusetts at one time. I believe it was Pepsi who turned the tide and gave Christmas it's wide acclaim in America. None of this matters to me. I enjoy the holiday and will continue to do so.

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, or whatever makes you festive!

 

[BornReady]

You don't watch something - but you are sure someone elses conclusion is right?

Perhaps this video is different but, judging by the statements doombug made, I've heard the argument and wasn't impressed. I can't watch everything.

 

[Panacea]

I think an unwillingness to accept the influences, similarities, and roots of the very thing you dedicate your life to is the definition of closed mindedness. And maybe a fear. I understand that it can be threatening, and that not every claim is true, but...take the blinders off, it can only help a person have a better understanding of their religion. I guess that assumes the person is willing to be honest with his/herself at all.

I've always wondered how the devoutly religious make sense of the fact most religions are recycled, and how that fact doesn't shift them from religious and sure to spiritual and searching.

 

[Johnfromokc]

You call what a credited historian writes hear say and yet you believe anything you see on YouTube? Some skeptic you are John!

Damn Doomy......If Tacitus did not personally witness the life of the alleged life of Jesus, it is hearsay. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Are you guys kidding? I knew something was fishy when I saw the reference to Krishna. Check out the encyclopedia, which is based on the Mahabharata, the Harivamsa, the Bhagavata Purana and the Vishnu Purana. You will find that Krishna was born 19th or 21st July 3328 BC ,not 25th Dec, he was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki and her husband Vasudeva, being the eight son is no virgin birth. He dies by being shot in the foot by a hunter who mistook him for a deer while he meditated under a tree. That's no crucifixion. As for the resurrection, the Mahabharara Book 16,4 says that when the hunter touched his foot he forgave the hunter and ascended upwards

Also, almost every correlation between Krishna and Jesus can be traced to Kersey Graves, a 19th century author who believed Christianity was created from pagan myths. Though his works have been proven by scholars to be false and poorly researched many still ignorantly refer to his arguments not knowing they are easily disproved by simply comparing the Bible to the Hindu texts.

Looks like the claim this video makes is false.

Again, you completely miss the point. You went to the same web sites and repeated the same old lines that Christians always go to in an futile attempt to discredit the fact that no historical evidence of Jesus exists. There is only hearsay.

Here is an interesting web site about various religions and their similarities:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm

You see Doomy, the similarities between Christianity and other ancient religions are numerous - far too numerous to ignore or shrug off. You can try and split hairs on birth dates of the various deitys - and Krishna is traditionally believed to have been born during August - not July. The festival Janmashtami is held in honor of this birth. Christians argue over the alleged birth date of Jesus as well - but it is still celebrated December 25 in the Pagan tradition. All religions have merged to some extent.

All religion stems from some earlier version of a man made tale to explain human existence - and Christianity is no exception. Christianity is only one of the latest re-creations of ancient religion.

Religion of any kind is an evolving work of fiction until some deity actually makes an appearance on planet Earth and begins creating humans and causing amputees to sprout new limbs before live audiences.

 

[BornReady]

I've always wondered how the devoutly religious make sense of the fact most religions are recycled, and how that fact doesn't shift them from religious and sure to spiritual and searching.

Good point. I've found that the devoutly religious don't shop around. Many of them are mostly ignorant of other religions. I think the more someone knows about different religions the less certain they are. In fact, that is probably just a general fact of life. The less a person knows about any subject the more certain they are of their opinion. Talk to a PhD on the subject and you going to hear some hedging.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Perhaps this video is different but, judging by the statements doombug made, I've heard the argument and wasn't impressed. I can't watch everything.

It's not very impressive to comment on something being true or untrue that you have zero first hand knowledge of - don't ya think?

 

[BornReady]

It's not very impressive to comment on something being true or untrue that you have zero first hand knowledge of - don't ya think?

Touche... but I'm still not going to watch the video.