Johnfromokc
Active Member
What evidence might that be.
Check this out - it shows a history of "Born-of-a-virgin-saviours" since ancient times. It's highly doubtful "Jesus" or Christ" ever existed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnn8Q6Y4U0g
The True Meaning of Christmas
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What evidence might that be.
Check this out - it shows a history of "Born-of-a-virgin-saviours" since ancient times. It's highly doubtful "Jesus" or Christ" ever existed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnn8Q6Y4U0g
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Johnfromokc
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I can't wait until you change your AV. Someday some newby is gonna go "Huh?" :24:
Nah, that was Bill Cosby.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwYVqMj5i6k
This explainse the Xmas story succinctly:
I wish everybody would take this nudge to look at the secular holiday we call Christmas in the spirit in which it has always been meant to be celebrated. Go out & give a gift of cash to your local retailer & a less valuable gift of crap to a beloved.
But there is a record of a man named Christ:
The Roman historian and senator Tacitus referred to Christ, his execution by Pontius Pilate and the existence of early Christians in Rome in his final work.
The first-century Roman Tacitus,who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world,also mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus,which is Latin for Christ),who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius,chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian,wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century.
Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James,“the brother of Jesus,who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says,“Now there was about this time Jesus,a wise man,if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was the Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day,as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads,“At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion,and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah,concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.
What about what Tacitus wrote?
Johnfromokc
Active Member
Tacitus was born 56 years after Jesus was alleged to have died. His writings of Jesus are mere hearsay. There is zero historical evidence Jesus existed.
I already posted this, but here it is again for your benefit Doomy. Watch this 3 part series (30 minutes total) and see if you can refute any of it. The first 10 minutes shows Jesus is a myth:
[video=youtube;Wnn8Q6Y4U0g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Wnn8Q6Y4U0g[/video]
Enjoyed the video John but it seems you are attempting to change the subject.
Tacitus is seen as the most credible source of history for this time. Sounds pretty solid to me. But you see my question is this: Why would Tacitus discredit himself by writing a myth into his accounts? If Jesus is a myth I would think Tacitus would have been put to death for writing such an untruth just like Christians were put to death for their faith.
There is also someone mentioned in the Talmud that is believed to be Christ. Why would Christ be mentioned in a Jewish work?
Pliny the Younger also raises questions. He talks about putting Christians to death for aknowledging they believe. Why would anyone die for a myth? What about the persecution of early Christians as well? Why would anyone endure so much for a "myth"? Has anyone ever been put to death for this "purple dragon" you have mentioned before?
I would think a true "skeptic" would find these things just as compelling as anything else.
I believe Tacitus wrote about Christ. He didn't have much to say and wasn't writing from first hand knowledge but his passage is probably authentic. Jesus is legendary like King Arthur. That doesn't mean he didn't exist though. I think the consensus of modern scholars is the Jesus legend is based on a real person but we don't know a lot about that person.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the video. I've seen several History Channel shows that discuss how religious beliefs from a time before Christ have been folded into Christianity, things like virgin birth and rising from the dead. If an individual has any kind of an open mind, it must be questioned.
I agree with you BornReady. Whether or not Jesus existed isn't so much the big mystery. Many accept a man named Jesus existed. There are just many questions that ,to me, make the "myth" idea a myth itself. Take the birth of Christ for example:
Regardless of the method by which Jesus was conceived, it would have been very risky to document and claim that He was born of a virgin. In the Middle East there were "honor killings" for women who conceived out of wedlock, so to speak of a virgin birth was extremely dishonorable. In fact, the Bible alludes to some disparaging remarks made by the opponents of Jesus. In addition, if you look at the anti-Christian literature at the time, much of it focused on this aspect of Christianity. This makes one wonder why, if Christians were just making up a religion, they say something that would offend virtually everybody in the Middle East. It makes no sense to make up something offensive, unless it were true.
It doesn't make sense that someone would create a myth like this during this time in history.
True but surely this isn't the only way to accomplish this. Why write a "myth" in such a way that would insult most of the Middle East?
Greek culture was an influence in the area at that time yes, but if someone was going to write a "myth" during those times why not invent something that would appeal to everyone and wouldn't insult a large number of the population especially those in power.
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You call what a credited historian writes hear say and yet you believe anything you see on YouTube? Some skeptic you are John!
Are you guys kidding? I knew something was fishy when I saw the reference to Krishna. Check out the encyclopedia, which is based on the Mahabharata, the Harivamsa, the Bhagavata Purana and the Vishnu Purana. You will find that Krishna was born 19th or 21st July 3328 BC ,not 25th Dec, he was the eighth son born to the princess Devaki and her husband Vasudeva, being the eight son is no virgin birth. He dies by being shot in the foot by a hunter who mistook him for a deer while he meditated under a tree. That's no crucifixion. As for the resurrection, the Mahabharara Book 16,4 says that when the hunter touched his foot he forgave the hunter and ascended upwards
Also, almost every correlation between Krishna and Jesus can be traced to Kersey Graves, a 19th century author who believed Christianity was created from pagan myths. Though his works have been proven by scholars to be false and poorly researched many still ignorantly refer to his arguments not knowing they are easily disproved by simply comparing the Bible to the Hindu texts.
Looks like the claim this video makes is false.
Accountable
Well-Known Member
It's funny how people get all wrapped around the axle over trivia, completely ignoring the important stuff.
It's like getting into a heated argument after a murderer is executed over whether he pulled the trigger with his index or middle finger.
It's like getting into a heated argument after a murderer is executed over whether he pulled the trigger with his index or middle finger.
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