The separation of church and state.

[ouachiski]

Thomas Jefferson was a Deist, not a christian. Since most people dont know what a deist is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist , so being that one of the wrighters of our constitution was not christian I dont see how religion is woven into every founding document accept for saying that you can chose your own religion. allso Benjamin Franklin and George Washington where deist.

 

[memento_mori]

LOL You guys crack me up. Religion, specifically Christianity, is woven into every fabric of our founding documents. Don't you think?

they say god a few times. i don't think that means our government and legal system should be synonymous with religion.

 

[All Else Failed]

LOL You guys crack me up. Religion, specifically Christianity, is woven into every fabric of our founding documents. Don't you think?

Considering most of the founding fathers didn't even consider themselves Christians (Most of them were diests, and that is historical fact you can take to the bank) and theres absolutely no mention of a diety in the constitution, and they took steps to keep religion small in the government, I definitley DO NOT think America was founded on Christianity at all. Also, whenever you hear "God" in a document from a founding father, they are referring to the deist supreme being which center son natural law and reasoning, not the Christian god.

America was supposed to be a secularist nation founded on enlightenment ideas, reason and natural law. That is a fact.

 

[White2000GT]

Oh yes. Racism, xenophobia, sexism, crusades, ethnic conflicts, thousands of wars, slavery, slaughter, and all other things like those are landmarks on how we as a human race has progressed "Just fine". Now, religion isnt singularly responsible for the aforementioned cruelties, but it is usually the historical base for them, since religion by its nature is divicive among different people.

Pretty sure we would have all of that if there were no religions in the world too. All of those things are just human nature. I'm pretty sure if you were to ask an Anthropologist they would say that the cave men used to have wars and slaughtered each other all the time. Maybe not on the scale of more modern history, but I'm sure it happened.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most schools have "Culture" rooms set up off to the side for any religious people who want to pray during the day.

I have no idea. Those weren't around when I went to school.

 

[All Else Failed]

Pretty sure we would have all of that if there were no religions in the world too. All of those things are just human nature. I'm pretty sure if you were to ask an Anthropologist they would say that the cave men used to have wars and slaughtered each other all the time. Maybe not on the scale of more modern history, but I'm sure it happened.



I have no idea. Those weren't around when I went to school.

We absolutely would have them even if religion wasn't around. BUT, religion gives someone what they think is divine authority to carry out grievous actions in the name of their blind faith. This is a mental vehicle for these actions they believe that a superior being told them to do. THAT is dangerous. Also, most religion is a foundation for intolerance, even Christianity, and this gives someone the excuse to act this way but when someone questions them they are hushed up because there is a large taboo (especially in America) about questioning religion.

 

[White2000GT]

Very good point. And it is safe to say that some religions are more intolerable than others. Ok, so you listed a few negative things influenced by religion. So why not some of the positive things? Art, music, and architecture just to name a few. And how about those religious based holidays we enjoy so much? Easter, Christmas, Hannukah? Come on AEF, you know you still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus! I bet you still dress up in your prettiest pink dress and go to church on Easter Sunday and then go Easter Egg hunting afterwards! J/K.

 

[All Else Failed]

Very good point. And it is safe to say that some religions are more intolerable than others. Ok, so you listed a few negative things influenced by religion. So why not some of the positive things? Art, music, and architecture just to name a few. And how about those religious based holidays we enjoy so much? Easter, Christmas, Hannukah? Come on AEF, you know you still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus! I bet you still dress up in your prettiest pink dress and go to church on Easter Sunday and then go Easter Egg hunting afterwards! J/K.

Yes, there are religions that are totally peaceful. I'm not going to deny that positive things came from religion, there are positive things. I'm just pointing out that its very easy to use religion for your own gain by its very nature.


DO NOT JOKE ABOUT MY PRETTY PINK DRESS!

 

[IntruderLS1]

**sigh**

Where did the idea of "seperation of church and state" come from? Go ahead and Google it. I'll be back on tomorrow.

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't see it as a problem in my country, it pretty much is seperate. So Bush dosen't support stem cell research? Big deal, 500 years ago our kings and queens were burning people at the stake because they had a different religion. I think things have progressed a hell of a lot since then. Even if Bush wasn't religious, he might still not agree with stem cell research, I'm not religious but have things I think are morally wrong too. I hate Catholism but I agree with them about Abortion for example.

 

[memento_mori]

**sigh**

Where did the idea of "seperation of church and state" come from? Go ahead and Google it. I'll be back on tomorrow.

according to wikipedia, it was first started in a letter by thomas jefferson to the danbury baptists.

what's your point? should separation of church and state not be both ways?

 

[All Else Failed]

**sigh**

Where did the idea of "seperation of church and state" come from? Go ahead and Google it. I'll be back on tomorrow.

What do you mean? Why it was put in? Where the idea came from?

 

[memento_mori]

it was part of the first amendment, it would be wrong for the government to regulate religion. but religion still doesn't have a place in government.

 

[All Else Failed]

it was part of the first amendment, it would be wrong for the government to regulate religion. but religion still doesn't have a place in government.

Well, theres always that grey area. A person with religious beliefs cant be made to not make decisions based on faith...no matter how wrong we think it.

 

[IntruderLS1]

links would be nice

President Bush is the only president to ever authorize federal funding for stem cell research. Why isn't more civilian funding flooding into this thing if there is so much potential? :confused

Advancing Stem Cell Science Without Destroying Human Life - January 2007 (Updated April 2007)

 

[All Else Failed]

President Bush is the only president to ever authorize federal funding for stem cell research. Why isn't more civilian funding flooding into this thing if there is so much potential? :confused

Advancing Stem Cell Science Without Destroying Human Life - January 2007 (Updated April 2007)

Because its extremely expensive and not many private civilian companies could fund it on their own, even though there are several.


Also, this whole "omg you're destroying human life when you use fetus cells!" is 100% bogus. They use the cells that are either excess from the birthing process which will be thrown away in the first place, or cells that didn't fully develop. The "destroying human life" thing is just a buzz term for pro-life interest groups.

 

[icecuban]

LOL You guys crack me up. Religion, specifically Christianity, is woven into every fabric of our founding documents. Don't you think?

kind of right.....our main documents these days come in little green notes, capitalism prints them every day, and they say "in god we trust" and has the star of david on it, though the star is in comemerence of a jewish helper during washingtons era (so they say), and the "in god" was to increase religious feelings during the civil war.
not really what you meant, but i thought that was funny

though i must say, if a person in a true christian, he could not be apart of government anyways. to be apart of something that advocates death in any way, would be contradictory to the faith. Tolstoy's Kingdom of God deals very well with this, so technically, at least in terms of christianity, they will always be seperate, (even if there are some who claim to be one thing, but obviously are not) because (our) government has an army, and all that (not so) happy stuff

 

[All Else Failed]

kind of right.....our main documents these days come in little green notes, capitalism prints them every day, and they say "in god we trust" and has the star of david on it, though the star is in comemerence of a jewish helper during washingtons era (so they say), and the "in god" was to increase religious feelings during the civil war.
not really what you meant, but i thought that was funny

though i must say, if a person in a true christian, he could not be apart of government anyways. to be apart of something that advocates death in any way, would be contradictory to the faith. Tolstoy's Kingdom of God deals very well with this, so technically, at least in terms of christianity, they will always be seperate, (even if there are some who claim to be one thing, but obviously are not) because (our) government has an army, and all that (not so) happy stuff

If you do some research, the original plans for the currency of the US didn't have any kind of religious markings or saying on them. Also, when the founding fathers said "god" they didn't mean the Christian god, but a deistic supreme being, which basically means "reason and natural law". The US was intended to be SECULARIST. The founding fathers certainly were.

 

[icecuban]

If you do some research, the original plans for the currency of the US didn't have any kind of religious markings or saying on them. Also, when the founding fathers said "god" they didn't mean the Christian god, but a deistic supreme being, which basically means "reason and natural law". The US was intended to be SECULARIST. The founding fathers certainly were.

i did do research, thats were i got the washington and the star of david thinghttp://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000467.html . as for the in god, that was during the civil war ,U.S. Treasury - Fact Sheet on the History of"In God We Trust", which again, was not the begining, so i do agree with you already in terms of when it began, but thats not our gov't today, today we invade countries, saying that god should bless this country, give me a break.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Because its extremely expensive and not many private civilian companies could fund it on their own, even though there are several.


Also, this whole "omg you're destroying human life when you use fetus cells!" is 100% bogus. They use the cells that are either excess from the birthing process which will be thrown away in the first place, or cells that didn't fully develop. The "destroying human life" thing is just a buzz term for pro-life interest groups.

Ummm.... Did you even read the material? Do you.... you know what, nevermind, I don't know which thought up there made less sense.

 

[IntruderLS1]

​

Considering most of the founding fathers didn't even consider themselves Christians (Most of them were diests, and that is historical fact you can take to the bank)

Name of Signer

State​

Religious Affiliation
Charles Carroll
Maryland
Catholic
Samuel Huntington
Connecticut
Congregationalist
Roger Sherman
Connecticut
Congregationalist
William Williams
Connecticut
Congregationalist
Oliver Wolcott
Connecticut
Congregationalist
Lyman Hall
Georgia
Congregationalist
Samuel Adams
Massachusetts
Congregationalist
John Hancock
Massachusetts
Congregationalist
Josiah Bartlett
New Hampshire
Congregationalist
William Whipple
New Hampshire
Congregationalist
William Ellery
Rhode Island
Congregationalist
John Adams
Massachusetts
Congregationalist; Unitarian
Robert Treat Paine
Massachusetts
Congregationalist; Unitarian
George Walton
Georgia
Episcopalian
John Penn
North Carolina
Episcopalian
George Ross
Pennsylvania
Episcopalian
Thomas Heyward Jr.
South Carolina
Episcopalian
Thomas Lynch Jr.
South Carolina
Episcopalian
Arthur Middleton
South Carolina
Episcopalian
Edward Rutledge
South Carolina
Episcopalian
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Virginia
Episcopalian
Richard Henry Lee
Virginia
Episcopalian
George Read
Delaware
Episcopalian
Caesar Rodney
Delaware
Episcopalian
Samuel Chase
Maryland
Episcopalian
William Paca
Maryland
Episcopalian
Thomas Stone
Maryland
Episcopalian
Elbridge Gerry
Massachusetts
Episcopalian
Francis Hopkinson
New Jersey
Episcopalian
Francis Lewis
New York
Episcopalian
Lewis Morris
New York
Episcopalian
William Hooper
North Carolina
Episcopalian