The Bengazi fiasco

[The Man]

The fact that TM is for water boarding should tell you everything you need to know

I am not for water boarding...what happened happened...the policy needed to QUIETLY change in the background.
IMO no punitive action should have been taken those that administered the boarding.

Do I give a fuck that they got boarded....No.
Couldnt think of three better people for it to have happened to.

You shouldnt judge so fast tim...at least they are getting some due process ,,,unlike Bin laden who we stormed and executed.
I dont see you bitching about the execution of Bin laden.

 

[The Man]

[video]http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=pictures+of+new+york+city+the+night+bin+lad en+was+killed&tnr=21&vid=a5c1cfc7c470551a9f01930b4 9d65925&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fi d%3DU.4772499732430959%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2 F%2Fwww.bing.com%2Fvideos%2Fwatch%2F%3Fq%3Dpicture s%2Bof%2BNew%2BYork%2Bcity%2Bthe%2Bnight%2Bbin%2Bl aden%2Bwas%2Bkilled%26vid%3DD0A1C83DB3C4163B5C8AD0 A1C83DB3C4163B5C8A%26docid%3D4772499732430959&sigr =1503rfieo&newfp=1&tit=Crowd+Reaction+at+Ground+Ze ro%3B+Osama+Bin+Laden+Killed&back=http%3A%2F%2Fsea rch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3DUTF-8%26p%3Dpictures%2Bof%2BNew%2BYork%2Bcity%2Bthe%2B night%2Bbin%2Bladen%2Bwas%2Bkilled&sigb=132dl28dk[/video]

Apprently you didn't watch much news after the it was announced Bin Laden was kille.

Thought this one was over the top, but shows you what you need to know about some American citizens.



The fact that you claim "we are a peaceful bunch" tells me you know nothing about the human race.

Just because we're American citizens doesn't mean we're immune to the frails of being human, and revert back to the Old Testament when it suits our needs.

People are people no matter where you go. You have all types, for better and worse.

Thing is, the American citizen isn't use to living in a third world country whose government makes their money selling oil to westerners, and whose life has been torn due to either hardline religious / non religious dictatorships. I have no doubt that if some foreign country came into our country and acted as a police force and killed some of your family, you'd be one of the first ones on the bandwagon for revenge the rest of your life.

I didnt watch the video...I am on satellite.
Were there any mosque attacks or similar?

Besides its not really a comparison Joe if you want to make a proper analogy....it would be celebrating the day{anniversary} when we dropped the bomb on japan...by having riots and killings etc.

That would compare to their celebration of 9/11.
As said...we are a peaceful bunch in general

 

[Stone]

I am not for water boarding...what happened happened....................

What changed your mind in the last several years?

 

[The Man]

What changed your mind in the last several years?

Credit goes to you stone :thumbup
While it legally may have not been torture at the time....it needs to be illegal now.

 

[Stone]

I finally convinced someone of something.......my work is almost done......

 

[The Man]

I finally convinced someone of something.......my work is almost done......

There is much left to do....Lots of far lefts here....but at least they speak so there is hope

 

[Joe the meek]

I didnt watch the video...I am on satellite.
Were there any mosque attacks or similar?

Besides its not really a comparison Joe if you want to make a proper analogy....it would be celebrating the day{anniversary} when we dropped the bomb on japan...by having riots and killings etc.

No mosque attacks, but numerous instances in the US where people who practice Islam are having a VERY hard time building a place of worship legally in the U.S.

I think part of the reason you don't see numerous protests like you do overseas is you 1.Peoples lives don't generally suck that bad in the US and they actually have other things to do 2. They know if it got "ugly" they (American) government wouldn't allow it.

We are a peaceful bunch given our current economical social development as a country in general, but even then, some could argue our death rate due to crime is much higher compared to those other countries with the same economic / social standing.

 

[Joe the meek]

Hey TM - did you serve in the military?

I asked him the same question some time ago on another thread, and like you, so far, never got a response.

 

[Accountable]

What's the relevance? If you would explain that then maybe you'll get an answer.
I suspect you just want to set him up for some kind of slam. There's no doubt in my mind that that's what John wants to do. He never has a real point.

 

[Minor Axis]

geeze you are so caught up in everything has to be anti Obama that you can't see anything other than the liberal talking points

Rice went on to several Sunday shows and parroted the White House talking points

She made it clear that it was felt this was due to the video

Did she say there was still an investigation? Sure she couched her words.

I would have to go back and watch those interviews to see how the video came up in the discussion. My recollection is she brought it up.

If so then why even mention it? Unless it was to deflect.

So we don't see eye to eye. You seem to think that GOP enragement is based on genuine concern over the security of our Embassies and coming clean with the American public. I think it is primarily concerned with political brinkmanship, basing it on the level of rage I see displayed in statements such as McCains and Grahams.

And last week they were pushing the notion that Petraeus resigned so he would not have to testify about it. Oops.

As far as someone being in the military or not, (recently mentioned in thread), if not, I don't believe that disqualifies them from having an informed opinion.

I do know the Administration during the Iraq war was flat out lying to the American public pushing the notion that water boarding was not torture. They also orchestrated a war of aggression based on a false premises, something they have not been held accountable for, c'est la vie.

 

[Joe the meek]

What's the relevance? If you would explain that then maybe you'll get an answer.
I suspect you just want to set him up for some kind of slam.

Per the other thread I had asked myself, most likely about his pro hawk stance on something. Per this thread, be curious just to the comment he made per America being a more peaceful society (or along those lines).

I've personally found that those who have never had bullets whizzing by their head are usually the first who want to go to war. You also realize if you've ever had bullets whizzing by your head that sometimes it's one lack of humanity that helps win wars, and there is the rub.

The only slam I would make is that with a screen name of "The man", he damn well better of served lol

 

[Accountable]

I've personally found that those who have never had bullets whizzing by their head are usually the first who want to go to war. You also realize if you've ever had bullets whizzing by your head that sometimes it's one lack of humanity that helps win wars, and there is the rub.

Can't argue there.

 

[Johnfromokc]

What's the relevance? If you would explain that then maybe you'll get an answer.

The relevance is the chickenhawk theory. We want to see if it applies here.

I suspect you just want to set him up for some kind of slam. There's no doubt in my mind that that's what John wants to do. He never has a real point.

Anytime anybody disagrees with the teabot view it's a slam to the thin skinned conservotard.

You just don't like the fact that I constantly point out that you are the unlimate hypocrite because 100% of your income and benefits comes from government, yet you call yourself a libertarian and scream for smaller government.

I'd just like to know how you reconcile that disparity in your own mind.

 

[Johnfromokc]

I asked him the same question some time ago on another thread, and like you, so far, never got a response.

Per the other thread I had asked myself, most likely about his pro hawk stance on something. Per this thread, be curious just to the comment he made per America being a more peaceful society (or along those lines).

I've personally found that those who have never had bullets whizzing by their head are usually the first who want to go to war. You also realize if you've ever had bullets whizzing by your head that sometimes it's one lack of humanity that helps win wars, and there is the rub.

The only slam I would make is that with a screen name of "The man", he damn well better of served lol

That's why I want to know. After the Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut I carried a hatred for Muslims that took me decades to get over. I lost buddies there. That shit affects you. Over time, and through shitloads of heated discussions - some of them with you Joe, I realized my hatred was only hurting me. I finally began to understand the statement "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter."

So fuck yeah, I wanna know if TM is a vet or a balless chickenhawk.

 

[Joe the meek]

That's why I want to know. After the Marine Barracks bombing in Beirut I carried a hatred for Muslims that took me decades to get over. I lost buddies there. That shit affects you. Over time, and through shitloads of heated discussions - some of them with you Joe, I realized my hatred was only hurting me. I finally began to understand the statement "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter."

And I hope you realize that I'm not naive enough not to realize that there are muslims who do mean harm to others who don't practice the Islam faith.

That said, take a poor afghan boy being raised by his religious nut father, how is the boy supposed to know any different?

I have no doubt that if you took the law out of the US, you'd have some pretty hard core religious nuts doing the same thing here as they are over in the sandbox.

The question then becomes does your life suck so much that you have to embrace religion to use it as a motivator for hatred of others who don't think like you do? In the sandbox, I'm guess the odds are that your life sucks more, thus it's easier to embrace religious radicalism.

 

[Francis]

Joe is partly right...

No mosque attacks, but numerous instances in the US where people who practice Islam are having a VERY hard time building a place of worship legally in the U.S.

Actually if you Google Bin Laden Death and Mosque Attack you find one in Portland Oregon..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_hyY9a7xh8

I think part of the reason you don't see numerous protests like you do overseas is you 1.Peoples lives don't generally suck that bad in the US and they actually have other things to do 2. They know if it got "ugly" they (American) government wouldn't allow it.

Agreed but even after Bin Laden's death you had many in the streets.. Still quite impressive.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-20058784.html

It may also be that in the US Mosque attacks are rarely reported or headline news worthy..

—An Nur Islamic Center in Ontario, California had pig legs thrown on the sites driveways.

— Prayers at a Hayward, California Mosque were disrupted by teenagers throwing lemons and oranges, and shooting bb guns, and insulting worshippers. Four teens were arrested.

— The College Preparatory School at the Lombard, Illinois Mosque was hit with an acid filled bottle thrown during Taraweh prayers.

—The Muslim Education Center Mosque in Morton Grove, Illinois had shots fired narrowly missing a security guard during Taraweh prayers when hundreds were inside praying. David Conrad has been arrested.

— Muslim gravestones at the Evergreen Park Cemetery near Chicago vandalized with anti-Muslim graffiti for the 6th time in 17 months. (update, the gravestones defaced again on 9/2/12 **)

— There was a second arson attack on the Joplin, Missouri mosque this summer. The first attempted arson was on July 4th, this time the entire mosque was engulfed in flames.

— Our Lady of the Cedars Melkite Greek Catholic Church Arabic sign in New Hampshire vandalized

— St. Ann’s Arabic Catholic Cathedral in Pottsville, Pennsylvania vandalized, American and Palestinian flags torn down.

— The North Smithfield Mosque in Rhode Island was vandalized

— The Oklahoma City Mosque in Oklahoma was vandalized by having paint balls fired at it.

— A Holocaust Memorial in Sheepshead Bay Park, New York was vandalized.

— A firecracker was left in the mailbox of a St. Augustine, Florida Synagogue causing a bomb scare.

— The Mother of the Savior Lutheran Church (Arab Christians) in Dearborn, Michigan was vandalized with broken windows twice in a week.

— On Eid Day, someone put uncooked bacon on the lawn where Eid prayers were to be held in Staten Island, New York.

— There was a deadly terrorist attack on a Sikh Temple in Wisconsin. The perpetrator possibly thought it was a mosque.

http://theamericanmuslim.org/tam.ph...have_experienced_violent_or_racist_incidents1

 

[Francis]

And I hope you realize that I'm not naive enough not to realize that there are muslims who do mean harm to others who don't practice the Islam faith.

That said, take a poor afghan boy being raised by his religious nut father, how is the boy supposed to know any different?

Exactly and we will always have good and bad people everywhere. Bullies of the world..

If we don't start to change how kids think, how will we ever end any conflict..

I was watching the news and they talked about the war between Israel and the Arab world.. Since I was a kid they have said there have been chances for peace between the two.. Unfortunately that peace has not come yet and innocent people keep dying. I can't imagine this war ever ending because someone always sours the deal... Sad truly as I wish I could see the day when all could live in peace..

 

[Johnfromokc]

And I hope you realize that I'm not naive enough not to realize that there are muslims who do mean harm to others who don't practice the Islam faith.

There were times I wondered - I admit. Read you loud and clear now.

That said, take a poor afghan boy being raised by his religious nut father, how is the boy supposed to know any different?

If you were born in a mud hut, and American troops came and killed your father, you would rightfully hate Americans. That hate gets passed down generation after generation.

I have no doubt that if you took the law out of the US, you'd have some pretty hard core religious nuts doing the same thing here as they are over in the sandbox.

All one need do is look at the TEA Party idiots to reach that conclusion.

The question then becomes does your life suck so much that you have to embrace religion to use it as a motivator for hatred of others who don't think like you do? In the sandbox, I'm guess the odds are that your life sucks more, thus it's easier to embrace religious radicalism.

Nobody's life here in the United States sucks to the point of religious insanity. However, how many people have been sucked into the hate game by Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Michael Savage, Neal Boortz, FOX News or any of an assortment of repetitive right wing internet blogs to the point that they have lost the capacity for reason and logic.

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Alien Allen]

Johnny the left has a lot of hate it dispenses also in case you missed it.

I don't see a lot of comments about the nonsense Schultz spews out. For example

Our country has had many instances of people getting their loud voices aired over the years.

Supporters of that crap call it just somebody being passionate

The best way to confront it is with reasonable responses