Should teachers be allowed to carry guns in schools?

[GuesSAngel]

I'm just struggling to see how bring more guns in to school will make it any safer. Say some kid comes in with one and starts firing it about. What's the teacher going to do? Pull his out and start firing back while hundreds of panicking screaming kids are running about? Sounds much more likely to cause more damage to me.

agreed. And even so, what teachers would you let carry guns? The woman who can get the crapped beat out of her by one of her students, or the senior that can get the crap beat out of him by one of his students. It's just not safe. There are too many psycho kids and the same goes for teachers. I've had a couple teachers in my time to know that if they had a gun they probably would have shot some of the students.

There are other ways to make the kids more safe than having deadly weapons in school with them.

AND how young would we start having guns in the classroom...There are a lot of kids that are in kindergarden and 1st grade, as young as they are...I'm sure are really fucked up.

The whole thought just disgusts me.

 

[Margene]

agreed. And even so, what teachers would you let carry guns? The woman who can get the crapped beat out of her by one of her students, or the senior that can get the crap beat out of him by one of his students. It's just not safe. There are too many psycho kids and the same goes for teachers. I've had a couple teachers in my time to know that if they had a gun they probably would have shot some of the students.

There are other ways to make the kids more safe than having deadly weapons in school with them.

AND how young would we start having guns in the classroom...There are a lot of kids that are in kindergarden and 1st grade, as young as they are...I'm sure are really fucked up.

The whole thought just disgusts me.

:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup

I wouldn't want to trust my kids in classroom with a gun. There are just too many things that could go wrong.

Also, where would they be kept? In the teacher's desk? A gun safe? Would there be gun safes installed in all classrooms? The questions are endless.

 

[Zorak]

Why not just send them all to the gulag if you want them to be under safe armed guard

rofl

 

[itsmeJonB]

i say let them shoot the little bastards if they act

 

[nova]

I'm just struggling to see how bring more guns in to school will make it any safer. Say some kid comes in with one and starts firing it about. What's the teacher going to do? Pull his out and start firing back while hundreds of panicking screaming kids are running about? Sounds much more likely to cause more damage to me.

Being fearful of what otherwise responsible people might is a bad way to look at things.

Yes there might be confusion and there might be some crossfire and some innocents might get hurt and or killed should the responsible teacher be armed.

On the other hand, should the assailant be completely unopposed, we know he/she will go around shooting whomever they want at will and innocents WILL get hurt and killed. We've seen that happen before, both at VT and Columbine.

The counter example is the shooting in my home state of Pearl, MS. It was stopped in progress and undoubtably lives were saved because the principle went to his private vehicle, retrieved his person pistol and disarmed the shooter.

:thumbup:thumbup:thumbup
Also, where would they be kept? In the teacher's desk? A gun safe? Would there be gun safes installed in all classrooms? The questions are endless.

You put the same stipulations as any other CCW permit, namely that it must be concealed on the person of the responsible party. The kids never even know its there and even if they did keeping it on the holders body makes it nearly impossible to obtain.

 

[JanieDough]

So, I guess since cops aren't human and do not express anger that's why we allow them to carry guns, correct?

Just making sure we're on the same page here.

He did not choke the student "nearly to death." That's bullshit.

why is it bullshit?

you can't compare cops and teachers - their jobs are not the same.
do you want teachers to behave like cops? then send your kid to military school or something.

 

[JanieDough]

o idk.

Ever played the campaign mode on CoD: MW2?
If you have, you know which level I'm talking about. If you haven't, then terrorists is the answer.


For fucks sake, this world is not ideal. Shit happens, the more tools you have to deal with that shit increases the chances of that shit not shitting everything up.

:24::24::24::24:

because in ALL The cases of terrorists attacking airports GUNS have really helped.

If cops on the street in the UK don't need them then why do cops in the airport?
The streets of the UK seem a bit more dangerous...

 

[Margene]

Being fearful of what otherwise responsible people might is a bad way to look at things.

Yes there might be confusion and there might be some crossfire and some innocents might get hurt and or killed should the responsible teacher be armed.

On the other hand, should the assailant be completely unopposed, we know he/she will go around shooting whomever they want at will and innocents WILL get hurt and killed. We've seen that happen before, both at VT and Columbine.

The counter example is the shooting in my home state of Pearl, MS. It was stopped in progress and undoubtably lives were saved because the principle went to his private vehicle, retrieved his person pistol and disarmed the shooter.




You put the same stipulations as any other CCW permit, namely that it must be concealed on the person of the responsible party. The kids never even know its there and even if they did keeping it on the holders body makes it nearly impossible to obtain.

Unless they are overtaken or taken by surprise. You mean teachers would actually carry the weapon on them at all times? I'm stunned at the suggestion. Some high schools are really rough and they find guns in lockers and on kids. I cannot imagine any school administrator who would think a teacher walking around with a weapon on them in such a circumstance would be a good idea.

As I said above, I wouldn't want my kids in a school where firearms are being carried by teachers. Accidents happen. I don't think we should create the circumstances for a tragedy by introducing guns into schools.

 

[Peter Parka]

Being fearful of what otherwise responsible people might is a bad way to look at things.

Yes there might be confusion and there might be some crossfire and some innocents might get hurt and or killed should the responsible teacher be armed.

On the other hand, should the assailant be completely unopposed, we know he/she will go around shooting whomever they want at will and innocents WILL get hurt and killed. We've seen that happen before, both at VT and Columbine.

The counter example is the shooting in my home state of Pearl, MS. It was stopped in progress and undoubtably lives were saved because the principle went to his private vehicle, retrieved his person pistol and disarmed the shooter.




You put the same stipulations as any other CCW permit, namely that it must be concealed on the person of the responsible party. The kids never even know its there and even if they did keeping it on the holders body makes it nearly impossible to obtain.

Replace the word "might" with probably and thats closer to it.

 

[JanieDough]

tit, you miss my point. you are going way off left field.

anyways. teachers should not have guns. they are prone to lose it just as much as we all are, and they are dealing with our children.

 

[Jessica]

No. weapons are strictly forbidden in my school

 

[JanieDough]

No, you said something that had no logical or factual basis, and I responded to it. Maybe you just weren't making yourself clear.

:smiley24: :dunno

 

[dt3]

Unless they are overtaken or taken by surprise. You mean teachers would actually carry the weapon on them at all times? I'm stunned at the suggestion. Some high schools are really rough and they find guns in lockers and on kids. I cannot imagine any school administrator who would think a teacher walking around with a weapon on them in such a circumstance would be a good idea.

As I said above, I wouldn't want my kids in a school where firearms are being carried by teachers. Accidents happen. I don't think we should create the circumstances for a tragedy by introducing guns into schools.

Every cop in America has a gun on them. Have you ever heard of someone taking a cops weapon out of his holster and using it on him? I doubt it's happened. If kids are ALREADY bringing guns into a school, as you said, then how would a teacher's gun even be tempting to them? If they have their own guns, what do they gain from taking a teacher's weapon?

Also, for the record, nobody is advocating teachers running around like a SWAT team during a school shooting. Yes, they would probably be shot by the cops in that example. What I'm advocating is that when a teacher locks the door and shuts the blinds to the classroom, they should be allowed to have a weapon to defend themselves if some asshat with an AK breaks the lock and comes in.

Seriously, that's what teacher's do in a school shooting scenario. They lock the doors and the kids get under the desks. Are you willing to risk your kid's lives on the fact that an armed gunman won't be able to get through a locked door? Really? Because I'm not.

 

[nova]

Unless they are overtaken or taken by surprise. You mean teachers would actually carry the weapon on them at all times? I'm stunned at the suggestion. Some high schools are really rough and they find guns in lockers and on kids. I cannot imagine any school administrator who would think a teacher walking around with a weapon on them in such a circumstance would be a good idea.

I don't know where you live, but odds being what they are, you're around armed people every day, you just don't know it. Most states now have CCW laws that large numbers of individuals have taken advantage of.

People fighting against such CCW laws have continually made the argument that "blood would run through the streets like the wild west" if otherwise responsible adults are allowed to carry the means to protect themselves. However, a funny thing has happened in every instance, namely nothing. No blood running through the streets, no "OK Corral" shootouts and in many instances, violent crime rates have declined.

What makes a school any different? If a teacher is not responsible and upstanding enough to carry a weapon in defense of the children in their charge, they're not responsible enough to have children in their charge period.

If responsible adults being armed in schools is just such a terrible idea then you have to make the argument that have police there is a bad idea as well. More police officers are killed with their own weapon than any other so with you're argument, police are more of a liabilty than a help in school.

As I said above, I wouldn't want my kids in a school where firearms are being carried by teachers. Accidents happen. I don't think we should create the circumstances for a tragedy by introducing guns into schools.

So you feel its better to ensure the circumstances for a tragedy by ensuring the responsbile adults have no way of defending the dhildren in their care except lock the door and hope?

For someone intent on doing harm, your rules mean exactly dick and "gun free zone" just means "defenseless vicitim zone".

The shooters at both Columbine and Vt went room, to room, to room, completely unopposed. One single armed person in cover could have severely curtailed their killing and saved many lives. Instead, people had to depend upon and wait on the police who showed up a dollar short and a day late...

Replace the word "might" with probably and thats closer to it.

Doubtful. Altercations between armed assailants and CCW holders are not unknown and its rare for anyone other than the two parties directly involved to get injured much less killed. Typically the one that gets the worst of it is not the CCW holder either.

 

[Margene]

Every cop in America has a gun on them. Have you ever heard of someone taking a cops weapon out of his holster and using it on him? I doubt it's happened. If kids are ALREADY bringing guns into a school, as you said, then how would a teacher's gun even be tempting to them? If they have their own guns, what do they gain from taking a teacher's weapon?

Also, for the record, nobody is advocating teachers running around like a SWAT team during a school shooting. Yes, they would probably be shot by the cops in that example. What I'm advocating is that when a teacher locks the door and shuts the blinds to the classroom, they should be allowed to have a weapon to defend themselves if some asshat with an AK breaks the lock and comes in.

Seriously, that's what teacher's do in a school shooting scenario. They lock the doors and the kids get under the desks. Are you willing to risk your kid's lives on the fact that an armed gunman won't be able to get through a locked door? Really? Because I'm not.

A trained officer is not the same as a teacher. Cops live the life every day and as such are completely aware of their surroundings and threats at all times. Teachers don't exist in that environment and I don't think I'd want them to as their primary purpose is to educate.

As far as tempting kids, should one know that a particular teacher or teachers are carrying, in the event they would plan something or in the heat of a moment, they could overtake the teacher to get the gun and not risk getting caught carrying onto the school grounds.

I know what school lockdowns are as my kids have been through several, one caused by a school mate who was suicidal and brought a gun to school to do the deed. Thankfully, another kid saw the gun in their shared locker and reported it but not quickly enough to recover it at the locker. They found him on a field under a tree and had to talk him out of it.

I just don't think it's a wise idea to have a gun for the odd possibility a Columbine or VT would occur. Not all teachers would carry and I'm acquainted with a few who should never be allowed to.

 

[Zorak]

o idk.

Ever played the campaign mode on CoD: MW2?
If you have, you know which level I'm talking about. If you haven't, then terrorists is the answer.


For fucks sake, this world is not ideal. Shit happens, the more tools you have to deal with that shit increases the chances of that shit not shitting everything up.

:24:

And the award for stupidest analogy goes to....

 

[dt3]

A trained officer is not the same as a teacher. Cops live the life every day and as such are completely aware of their surroundings and threats at all times. Teachers don't exist in that environment and I don't think I'd want them to as their primary purpose is to educate.

As far as tempting kids, should one know that a particular teacher or teachers are carrying, in the event they would plan something or in the heat of a moment, they could overtake the teacher to get the gun and not risk getting caught carrying onto the school grounds.

I know what school lockdowns are as my kids have been through several, one caused by a school mate who was suicidal and brought a gun to school to do the deed. Thankfully, another kid saw the gun in their shared locker and reported it but not quickly enough to recover it at the locker. They found him on a field under a tree and had to talk him out of it.

I just don't think it's a wise idea to have a gun for the odd possibility a Columbine or VT would occur. Not all teachers would carry and I'm acquainted with a few who should never be allowed to.

And again, I'm not advocating teachers swarming the hallways and clearing room-to-room. That's asinine, they aren't trained for it. I'm advocating, for teachers that choose to and meet the criteria I laid out, that they have a weapon to defend the room against someone attempting to get in. The exact same rules they have now, except if the asshole gets into the room he gets shot at instead of executing the entire room unopposed.

 

[nova]

A trained officer is not the same as a teacher. Cops live the life every day and as such are completely aware of their surroundings and threats at all times. Teachers don't exist in that environment and I don't think I'd want them to as their primary purpose is to educate.

And a lot of police training is woefully inadequate. Thats why more police are killed by people taking their weapon from them than any other.

As far as tempting kids, should one know that a particular teacher or teachers are carrying, in the event they would plan something or in the heat of a moment, they could overtake the teacher to get the gun and not risk getting caught carrying onto the school grounds.

Thus is the value of concealment. Walking around with one on your hip like Dodge City is like painting a target on your back. Say your school has an armed officer on school grounds. If I wanna cause trouble, who do I shoot first? The officer. Now imagine that not only is there an officer, but a high probability of other people being armed although I don't know who. Killing the officer just alerts the other armed inviduals. The unknown tips the balance in favor of the defenders.

I just don't think it's a wise idea to have a gun for the odd possibility a Columbine or VT would occur. Not all teachers would carry and I'm acquainted with a few who should never be allowed to.

Thats why you have them go through the same CCW licensing process as any other private individual, more if you so desire. The CCW licensing processes in this country do an exception job of weeding out the people who don't need to be armed in public and honestly anyone who doesn't need to be armed in public, doesn't need to be in charge of other people's children...

 

[Margene]

I don't know where you live, but odds being what they are, you're around armed people every day, you just don't know it. Most states now have CCW laws that large numbers of individuals have taken advantage of.

People fighting against such CCW laws have continually made the argument that "blood would run through the streets like the wild west" if otherwise responsible adults are allowed to carry the means to protect themselves. However, a funny thing has happened in every instance, namely nothing. No blood running through the streets, no "OK Corral" shootouts and in many instances, violent crime rates have declined.

What makes a school any different? If a teacher is not responsible and upstanding enough to carry a weapon in defense of the children in their charge, they're not responsible enough to have children in their charge period.

If responsible adults being armed in schools is just such a terrible idea then you have to make the argument that have police there is a bad idea as well. More police officers are killed with their own weapon than any other so with you're argument, police are more of a liabilty than a help in school.




So you feel its better to ensure the circumstances for a tragedy by ensuring the responsbile adults have no way of defending the dhildren in their care except lock the door and hope?

For someone intent on doing harm, your rules mean exactly dick and "gun free zone" just means "defenseless vicitim zone".

The shooters at both Columbine and Vt went room, to room, to room, completely unopposed. One single armed person in cover could have severely curtailed their killing and saved many lives. Instead, people had to depend upon and wait on the police who showed up a dollar short and a day late...




Doubtful. Altercations between armed assailants and CCW holders are not unknown and its rare for anyone other than the two parties directly involved to get injured much less killed. Typically the one that gets the worst of it is not the CCW holder either.

I'll just make a few comments and then leave the thread. We are starting to argue in circles.

I live in the NW. The gun racks are not decorative here.

Teachers are not cops. Please see my answer to that to Donnie above.

For the bolded statement. I would never make the argument that cops should do their job un-armed. Yes, that happens, they are killed with their own weapons and they are trained to expect that possibility, but it still happens. So what makes a teacher, who isn't trained or even if they were, capable of carrying in perfect safety in a school environment?

Ok...I'm outta here.

 

[Peter Parka]

And again, I'm not advocating teachers swarming the hallways and clearing room-to-room. That's asinine, they aren't trained for it. I'm advocating, for teachers that choose to and meet the criteria I laid out, that they have a weapon to defend the room against someone attempting to get in. The exact same rules they have now, except if the asshole gets into the room he gets shot at instead of executing the entire room unopposed.

How would you make sure that the teachers weapon was secure at all times including while the're teaching so that some kid couldn't get hold of it?