Science Saved My Soul.....................

[Alien Allen]

seems like the entity those call a God was a sadistic twisted thing

If you follow the bouncing ball

IMO

 

[Francis]

no no no you have to choose, so you can either go to heaven or go to the science convention in the sky...

Beam me up Ducky...

 

[BornReady]

Someone needs a hug :smiley31:

If you're bothered by Tim's point and would prefer to have a group hug then you're in the wrong section. Religious beliefs are challenged and defended here. I think Tim consistently raises good points. You should consider what he has to say.

 

[sexysadie]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't God reach out to all of these third world countries - the sick, the hungry, the less fortunate? Does he not call those who do believe in Him to go on mission trips. The participating churches, organizations, and colleges take up donations for food, clothing, medical supplies and go into these countries to help the people and spread the word of God. In my opinion, that is God helping his people...through his people.

Regarding Science proving or disproving God. We could go on and on about this...and we have in past threads. I know many scientists who believe in God, I've read many books on how science supports "God". I've also read many articles and books where science does not support "God". At the end of the day, science helped confirm my belief in God and Jesus saved my soul.

Yes He does....every single day. Most people can't see it because they're too busy using every negative aspect behind every situation as proof that an almighty God does not exist. True, I've had moments when I questioned Him, His motives, His choices, I've turned my back on Him in anger because of personal reasons but I've never denied the fact that He exists because He just does. Suggesting that God doesn't exist, to me, is like denying my right arm, and I gotta tell you, it would be a hell of a lot easier to deny the latter....pardon the pun.

God finds His way into our hearts and allows us the ability and the knowlege to make a difference. He's given us a brain, well most of us anyway..lol..sorry....and He's given us the gift of free will. It's almost like that old saying....give a man a fish, and he eats for a day....teach a man to fish, and he's set for life. Well, God is trying to teach us to fish.....and I truly believe that one day we'll know why.

 

[Diggin Deep]

If you're bothered by Tim's point and would prefer to have a group hug then you're in the wrong section. Religious beliefs are challenged and defended here. I think Tim consistently raises good points. You should consider what he has to say.

LOL seriously?!? It was meant to ease a little tension, not to upset anyone. Tim got a little heated in his comment before that. I am full aware of the fact that religious beliefs are challenged and defended here. Obviously I am ok with that, hence I keep coming back. I agree that Tim raises good points and have no problem with Tim - he knows that. I have considered what he and everyone else that posts in the religious forum have to say. If you are unsure what I meant by something, please ask me before you decide to jump on me.

Thanks

 

[sexysadie]

God is responsible.

Your god is all-knowing. In the bible it says that he knows every hair on your head, every thought you will ever have. It is all written in the book of life.
If he knew all of this before he ever created the earth, then why did he still do it?
Before he created the earth he intimately knowing the pain and suffering of every person throughout history. He felt the unimaginable pain of every child that has slowly starved to death. He has experienced the unimaginable pain of everyone who has been raped, tortured, blown apart by bombs, died of radiation poisoning, mutilated, drowned, died of cancer slowly, and every other abomination imaginable.
Yet he still went ahead and let it all happen through his creation. Nothing could have changed since your god is perfect and everything he created is as exactly how he wanted it to turn out, right?
So since he is perfect and he knew that cancer would exist in his creation and he didn't change anything, then he is the creator of everything including cancer.

If you know everything that was, is and ever will be, and you create something that is flawed, you cannot blame anyone but you. He created free will with the forethought of every bad thing it would bring, so he is absolutely responsible.

If you absolutely knew that if you had a child, that he would grow up and create the next holocaust. Who would be to blame if you decided to have that child even though you knew the outcome before you did? Would you still blame him because he had free will or would you blame yourself because you KNEW the outcome of his free will and you went ahead and gave birth to him anyway?

Now I know you well enough to know you won't answer my questions... So my post was more for me to get my thoughts out there and you don't need to worry about answering...

I don't believe that He did know. I believe that He gives us challenges every single day and somehow knows the outcome, not because our decisions are formed FOR us, because I believe in the gift of free will, but because He sees what's in our hearts before we do. As free thinking individuals, we have the capability to act and then re-act......God doesn't do that for us. Look around you........what you see is what we've made out of a world He created. Science is amazing but if you step back and allow yourself to look at the bigger picture, our ability to explore through science is just one of the many many miracles God has bestowed upon us.

I appreciate your thoughts, without them I wouldn't get the opportunity to express some of mine.

 

[Sparkey Duck]

Atheist here in peace!!! :surrender

Why is the debate always on 'science' versus God. I believe there is no God, and believe that people are intrinsically moralistic through years of evolution and of lessons learned. I simply could never fathom the world only being 4000 years old etc. just I don't get it.. that said .. I don't therefore believe everything in science.

My atheism is itself a faith, though more based on factual evidence and 'scientific' principles. Science is not my belief system, as science is ever changing and what is believed today may be totally different from what is believed tomorrow. This does not affect my atheism one iota.

In my heart I believe that there is no God, like believers in God, it is unshakable and to the core. The idea of using logic to battle faith to me is crazy and always ends up in the same argument happening over and over. I admire people who have faith in something, whether it be God or other. As long as no one tries to convert people I'm easy going and don't feel anyone has the right to tell someone their beliefs are wrong.

Religion is an easy target these days, and is on the decline in most 1st world countries. However, to simply say science is now all you need I think is a little hasty, and I would encourage society/people to adapt to ever changing needs and difficulties in this world in whichever way they see fit.

 

[Diggin Deep]

Atheist here in peace!!! :surrender

Why is the debate always on 'science' versus God. I believe there is no God, and believe that people are intrinsically moralistic through years of evolution and of lessons learned. I simply could never fathom the world only being 4000 years old etc. just I don't get it.. that said .. I don't therefore believe everything in science.

My atheism is itself a faith, though more based on factual evidence and 'scientific' principles. Science is not my belief system, as science is ever changing and what is believed today may be totally different from what is believed tomorrow. This does not affect my atheism one iota.

In my heart I believe that there is no God, like believers in God, it is unshakable and to the core. The idea of using logic to battle faith to me is crazy and always ends up in the same argument happening over and over. I admire people who have faith in something, whether it be God or other. As long as no one tries to convert people I'm easy going and don't feel anyone has the right to tell someone their beliefs are wrong.

Religion is an easy target these days, and is on the decline in most 1st world countries. However, to simply say science is now all you need I think is a little hasty, and I would encourage society/people to adapt to ever changing needs and difficulties in this world in whichever way they see fit.

Well said :thumbup

 

[sexysadie]

I really don't like coming into these threads, I find it frustrating and upsetting at times, being a passionate person with strong opinions on this matter, I'm afraid sometimes that my frustration will get the better of me and I'll say something I may regret later.......I AM only human. That being said, threads like this are not started in hopes of a good healthy two sided debate, they're started, for the most part, to make fun of others and to get a laugh or two at somebody elses expense. I don't start these threads but I find it hard not to jump in and defend something I believe in.............not unlike yourself.

 

[Panacea]

The only thing I would like to see be an easy target in the world is stupidity and unnecessary hateful beliefs that harm others and are forced upon society...the damage done by these things really can be mutually exclusive of religion and found elsewhere (and subsequently need addressing), it's just going to take some time I guess. :shrug:

 

[sexysadie]

You really should elaborate....it sounds like it would be an interesting read.

 

[Panacea]

Me? I'm just in huge favor of gaining a global perspective and identifying personal biases...I think that is why I am motivated to be a counselor, because I want to make it my career's mission to see my own biases and improve the way I think about the world and react/behave. It's basically empathy, and can only make us better.

The thing about religion I find saddening is the way it is wedged into the public lives of individuals in society; not any one religion and society, but many. I much prefer and support the freedom to exercise faith in a personal setting. Individual faith is much more likely to lead a person to learn about themselves enough to gain global perspective than religion, which is just the form mob mentalities have taken...religion is more tied to government than it is to the person. I believe that is because it was created with that intention in mind; social control. It's the perfect scheme to force people in whatever direction someone chooses, like Hitler, as I have seen mentioned on OTz.

I just feel humans have wasted so much time on religion; fighting in its name, fighting for its laws, killing/hating/putting people down who dissent from what is supposed to just be individual faith. The good religion has done is not religion at all. It is just empathy, whether guided by faith or reason. We need more of that.

 

[Tim]

LOL seriously?!? It was meant to ease a little tension, not to upset anyone. Tim got a little heated in his comment before that. I am full aware of the fact that religious beliefs are challenged and defended here. Obviously I am ok with that, hence I keep coming back. I agree that Tim raises good points and have no problem with Tim - he knows that. I have considered what he and everyone else that posts in the religious forum have to say. If you are unsure what I meant by something, please ask me before you decide to jump on me.

Thanks

Sometimes it's very hard to get your intent across when using the written word. I can assure you that I have never gotten heated or upset when it comes to debates here. Sometimes I get frustrated when something seems so obvious to me and yet people will not even consider the point because it challenges their own beliefs. I am not here to convince anyone of anything, I am only arguing my beliefs and how I came to those beliefs.

So what may think is anger or me getting heated in my posts is actually me just trying to get my point across. And sometime emphasis is needed to draw you attention to the point that was not addressed again and again.

 

[Diggin Deep]

Sometimes it's very hard to get your intent across when using the written word. I can assure you that I have never gotten heated or upset when it comes to debates here. Sometimes I get frustrated when something seems so obvious to me and yet people will not even consider the point because it challenges their own beliefs. I am not here to convince anyone of anything, I am only arguing my beliefs and how I came to those beliefs.

So what may think is anger or me getting heated in my posts is actually me just trying to get my point across. And sometime emphasis is needed to draw you attention to the point that was not addressed again and again.

I understand that Tim...completely And by heated, I meant the use of a few choice "f" bombs. I know that you were only drawing attention to the point you were trying to make. I also understand how frustrating it can be when something seems so obvious to the person trying to make a point, but not to the many people reading it.

Again...I was trying to ease a little tension and that attempt was misunderstood by another. No biggie...I guess it wasn't as tension breaking and as humorous as I thought it was But it was a better reply than beating a dead horse over our difference of opinion. I will keep my hugs to myself.

:surrender

 

[sexysadie]

Sometimes it's very hard to get your intent across when using the written word. I can assure you that I have never gotten heated or upset when it comes to debates here. Sometimes I get frustrated when something seems so obvious to me and yet people will not even consider the point because it challenges their own beliefs. I am not here to convince anyone of anything, I am only arguing my beliefs and how I came to those beliefs.

So what may think is anger or me getting heated in my posts is actually me just trying to get my point across. And sometime emphasis is needed to draw you attention to the point that was not addressed again and again.

I get frustrated as well Tim, and for some of the same reasons. How can I make you understand that my belief is just as strong as yours? I've participated in many religious debates and have yet to have anybody succeed in challenging' my beliefs. It's just not possible. I believe what I believe and there's nothing anybody can say or do to convince me otherwise.. I'm not here to convince you or to be convinced, like I said, I don't start these threads but I sometimes consider it my duty to respond accordingly.

 

[sexysadie]

I understand that Tim...completely And by heated, I meant the use of a few choice "f" bombs. I know that you were only drawing attention to the point you were trying to make. I also understand how frustrating it can be when something seems so obvious to the person trying to make a point, but not to the many people reading it.

Again...I was trying to ease a little tension and that attempt was misunderstood by another. No biggie...I guess it wasn't as tension breaking and as humorous as I thought it was But it was a better reply than beating a dead horse over our difference of opinion. I will keep my hugs to myself.

:surrender

Don't you dare!!

 

[darkcgi]

just think that is less than a pin hole compared to whats out there
or even just right here

 

[Accountable]

I get frustrated as well Tim, and for some of the same reasons. How can I make you understand that my belief is just as strong as yours? I've participated in many religious debates and have yet to have anybody succeed in challenging' my beliefs. It's just not possible. I believe what I believe and there's nothing anybody can say or do to convince me otherwise.. I'm not here to convince you or to be convinced, like I said, I don't start these threads but I sometimes consider it my duty to respond accordingly.

Then why do you participate at all? I mean, if your mind is made up and unchangeable then it is closed. And if you think others' beliefs are just as strong then you're not going to change their minds. What's the point?

There were at least three times, probably more, in this thread that I wanted to respond to a post of yours. I decided not to each time because, well, mainly because you were getting hammered from several angles and I didn't want to appear to be just dogpiling on, and I figured you would view my comments as attacks rather than conversation. Now I see that your mind is closed regarding religion, what's the point in conversing?

I join conversations to learn and to express my opinions, but mainly to challenge my own thoughts so that I can refine and strengthen them. If I "know" the answer and don't think I can change the other person's mind, or at least make them consider, then I don't bother trying. What's the use?

 

[BornReady]

I also understand how frustrating it can be when something seems so obvious to the person trying to make a point, but not to the many people reading it.

I think (or at least hope) you have greatly over estimated the number of people who find Tim's post to be less than obvious. Tim described hell to be "an eternity in a burning lake of fire and torment." I hope it is obvious to most everyone that torture is immoral. I read a poll where about 70% of Americans believe in hell. But I would like to know how many of those believers view hell as Tim described. I'm guessing that view of hell is limited to fundamentalist groups like WBC. If anyone knows of such a poll please let me know.

 

[Niamh]

Personally, I don't understand why if God likes to take a back seat and let us fix ourselves and the world, using our own free will, then why does he want us to start up religions and worship him? why not stay completely anonymous? I don't believe in God but I believe that I'm a good person without having to believe in him, yes there are people who go and help the poor and needy and starving in the name of God but there are also people and organisations who do this in their own name and because they want to help. I'm pretty sure those religious people who help out those in need would do it even if their was no religion or concept of God.