Republican Judgement

[Alien Allen]

Two people and their lackies in congress Minor

aka the democrat party

 

[Minor Axis]

way too many voters are idiots that have no business voting. They vote based on emotions and do not vote based on convictions. That is proven by the fact that the core supporters of each party remain pretty constant. So you end up with the idiots in the middle that vote what ever direction the wind blows that year.

If the govt really wanted us to vote then they would have voting done on a weekend or over more than one day to make it easier to vote. IMO

I've got it. We need a benevolent dictatorship. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself).

Why is it that most Republican's think that it will 1)cost less and 2) be an improvement if we take apart government and privatize as much of it as possible, turning it into a for-profit venture? Is there any merit in this idea?

Romneyrivatize FEMA

 

[Alien Allen]

I've got it. We need a benevolent dictatorship. (Sorry if I'm repeating myself).

Why is it that most Republican's think that it will 1)cost less and 2) be an improvement if we take apart government and privatize as much of it as possible, turning it into a for-profit venture? Is there any merit in this idea?

Romneyrivatize FEMA

why to privatize? Simple.... it saves money and does not have to cost jobs.

many things could be done by the private sector. If you take your vision to the extreme then why not have everybody work for the govt.

if you are a govt employee doing a job that could be done in the private sector you are sucking money from the coffers. If that same job is done by the private sector then those companies pay taxes and add to the coffers.

 

[Minor Axis]

The problem Allen is that the emphasis of privatizing becomes how to make someone rich, not serve the public/common good.

 

[Alien Allen]

The problem Allen is that the emphasis of privatizing becomes how to make someone rich, not serve the public/common good.

where do you come up with this stuff??

many of our schools have privatized bus service, food service and janitorial service.

everybody was guaranteed to keep their job except I think perhaps at the management end. Not sure on that. And they kept their wages and did not lose any benefits. If there is somebody that was making a profit it must have been the schools before. Except what they took in they squandered obviously since the private company can do it cheaper. You tell me what is wrong with that picture? I will save you the time. It is a clear example of where some services are better left to be privatized.

 

[Accountable]

I think "privatize" is a copout. Taxes are still footing the bill, there's still no competition, thus no incentive to make things better. The only thing is that the payroll is not on the budget so it makes things look better while nothing has changed. Making things private, though, severing all operations from the gov't, is a different matter. We should do that whenever possible. We could use a temp agency for all the low-level clerk work, for instance. The entry-level clerks gain valuable experience and the taxpayer saves on lavish union benefits.

 

[Minor Axis]

where do you come up with this stuff??

It's all around. Open your eyes and put the koolaid aside. You want just one HUGE example? The privatization of the military known as military contractors, billions spent, fortunes made.

I think "privatize" is a copout. Taxes are still footing the bill, there's still no competition, thus no incentive to make things better. The only thing is that the payroll is not on the budget so it makes things look better while nothing has changed. Making things private, though, severing all operations from the gov't, is a different matter. We should do that whenever possible. We could use a temp agency for all the low-level clerk work, for instance. The entry-level clerks gain valuable experience and the taxpayer saves on lavish union benefits.

So do you support privatized police and fire departments? Before you have an organization whose number one purpose is to serve the community and then converting it into an organization whose number one goal is to make a profit. I've seen privatization in action. The primary focus is to reduce costs period, lower salaries, not improve anything, and make someone rich (the owner of the contract) in the process. I watched on a military training base where maintenance of the base had been handled by the public works department, government employees making fairly good wages, then was turned over to contractors. The owner of the contract gets their profit, hires employees at substantially lower wages, no benefits, and then uses what is left to keep up the base. The condition of the base went right down the toilet.

 

[Tim]

What about the prisons being privatized? Are you for that?

I'm not and here's why.

The primary reason we have government is to protect the people. Prisons are a prime example of this, they keep dangerous people locked away from the public. When they are run by the public, there is no profit or profit motive. All of the money is used to sustain the facility.
When prisons are handed over to private facilities, the only way they can make money is to pay lower salaries and cut corners. This is something that can be done by the state without ever handing over control.
If you look at any of the studies done on prisons that were privatized, you will see 30 times the escape rate, initial savings during the transition with cost creeping up until it's actually more expensive and corruption to get more of their beds filled. Not to mention the CEO's making millions of dollars a year and millions going to share holders. These are MY tax dollars going directly into their pockets, MY money.

Show me any upside at all, any

 

[Johnfromokc]

I think "privatize" is a copout. Taxes are still footing the bill, there's still no competition, thus no incentive to make things better. The only thing is that the payroll is not on the budget so it makes things look better while nothing has changed.

I can agree with this. In many cases privatization leads to far greater tax payer expense.

Making things private, though, severing all operations from the gov't, is a different matter. We should do that whenever possible. We could use a temp agency for all the low-level clerk work, for instance.

Some things do seem to work well privatized. Here in Oklahoma, vehicle taxes are paid to a private vendor who issues driver licenses and license plates. But you have to be extremely careful what is contracted out because many areas are easily subjected to fraud and abuse by private sector companies.

The entry-level clerks gain valuable experience and the taxpayer saves on lavish union benefits.

Lavish union benefits? Really now. Like what exactly? Living wages? That's pretty lavish. Health care? How greedy. Paid vacation? Can't have that now can we? :sarcasm

What kind of pay and benefits do Texas teachers get? Are teachers in Texas represented by unions?

 

[Accountable]

It's all around. Open your eyes and put the koolaid aside. You want just one HUGE example? The privatization of the military known as military contractors, billions spent, fortunes made.



So do you support privatized police and fire departments?

No, but I see I wasn't at all clear. Sorry. For those services where there clearly is no competition, such as prisons, highway system, etc, privatization is a smoke screen to cook the books and make it look like the gov't is spending less money than it really is.

If there is an option that more than one company can handle a service, such as secretarial work or vehicle maintenance, then local departments should be set free to find the best balance of high quality & low cost, and be ready to justify their decision should they be audited. This is different from an entire base or an entire federal department making a general sweeping contract for years then looking for a better bid years later. I mean shopping for the service when the service is needed.

HTH

 

[Alien Allen]

I never said everything should be privatized. No koolaid drinking here

 

[Accountable]

I can agree with this. In many cases privatization leads to far greater tax payer expense.

Some things do seem to work well privatized. Here in Oklahoma, vehicle taxes are paid to a private vendor who issues driver licenses and license plates. But you have to be extremely careful what is contracted out because many areas are easily subjected to fraud and abuse by private sector companies.

Right. It's that complacency that a long-term contract brings and the temptation of fraud when contract renewal time comes that I worry about.

Lavish union benefits? Really now. Like what exactly? Living wages? That's pretty lavish. Health care? How greedy. Paid vacation? Can't have that now can we? :sarcasm

We taxpayers don't need to provide "living wages," healthcare, or anything else beyond pay (and overtime when warranted) if it can be provided by the private sector.

An example: For a short time I worked for a sub-sub-sub-contractor that installed cabinets, closets, etc for commercial contractors - mainly in schools and hospitals. When we got a federal contract, part of the deal was that the boss had to pay (as a minimum) the industry average wage, overtime & double overtime, and provide a certain level of insurance beyond the minimum legal requirement. Unless he was willing to do that he couldn't have the contract. That's for a one-time job, but I don't see a reason that the same couldn't be done for, say, a temp agency providing clerks. Managers could pick and choose among the local agencies, who would step up their training to vie for the contract. Entry-level kids would get valuable training and experience to help boost them into better-paid positions.

What kind of pay and benefits do Texas teachers get? Are teachers in Texas represented by unions?

We get very good pay, imo, though it is much lower than it used to be. I've spoken to some of the old-timers who are retiring or nearing retirement, and are grandfathered into the old pay scales. It's a bit embarrassing the amount of money the state used to pay. One lady that retired this year will be getting a retirement check larger than my pay will be when I'm ready to retire. Good for her, I say, but it's really more than I need.

No, we don't have collective bargaining in Texas, though there are a couple of unions to represent us. I personally don't see their value. I was urged to join for the legal services, so I did, but dropped it two years later.

As far as privatizing schools, I don't see the value in that, either. I heard of one country (I think it was Belgium) that attached the funding to the individual student, and parents were free to choose which public school their kids would attend. I'd like to see Texas explore such a system. I think the competition would improve our schools.

 

[Minor Axis]

I predict as the "good" jobs are reduced to a small pool by our intrepid corporate/government leaders , because humans love begetting favors and looking out for their own, while access to such jobs may partially still be based on merit, much more important will be who you know and whose family you belong to. The working classes can just be content to struggle in the trenches (until the revolution). For parallels, look to the Middle East.

This is the road the U.S. is headed down currently. When inflated egos inflate self importance to justify self enrichment to the detriment of society at large, we are in big trouble. Not helping is an evil political party who spends all of it's time telling society, this is how it should be and the morons who believe them.

 

[Accountable]

:wtf:You think the ME is ahead of us culturally??:wtf:

 

[Alien Allen]

Minor actually thinks only one party is evil it appears and that the democrats do not try to dictate what we should do. Guess you missed Obomacare as example eh Minor ??

 

[Minor Axis]

:wtf:You think the ME is ahead of us culturally??:wtf:

Huh? And how did you reach this conclusion? Please re-read my post.

Minor actually thinks only one party is evil it appears and that the democrats do not try to dictate what we should do. Guess you missed Obomacare as example eh Minor ??

I admit there is some perspective involved on both our parts. But that does not make the GOPpers any less evil. They reside in the hip pocket of those who don't need much help, smiling at you, while they stab you in the back, Mr Average Citizen. I like the idea of not having to worry about health bills, therefore I like the idea of Obamacare as a means to an end. Just make it financially viable is all I ask.

 

[Accountable]

Huh? And how did you reach this conclusion? Please re-read my post.

I did! I was as surprised as you, but there it is.

I predict as the "good" jobs are reduced to a small pool by our intrepid corporate/government leaders , because humans love begetting favors and looking out for their own, while access to such jobs may partially still be based on merit, much more important will be who you know and whose family you belong to. The working classes can just be content to struggle in the trenches (until the revolution). For parallels, look to the Middle East.

This is the road the U.S. is headed down currently. When inflated egos inflate self importance to justify self enrichment to the detriment of society at large, we are in big trouble. Not helping is an evil political party who spends all of it's time telling society, this is how it should be and the morons who believe them.

If we're headed down a road that they've already traveled, they're ahead of us, right?

 

[Minor Axis]

If we're headed down a road that they've already traveled, they're ahead of us, right?

We are following them to a bad place economically and culturally. I admit we have a ways to fall before coming the Middle East, but the point is valid. This does not imply they are culturally superior to us, ok?

Edit: I see your point. We are not headed down the exact same road, but we may end up in the same negative place. In no case should you have read that I consider them "ahead" of us as in superior, just ahead in mistakes.

 

[Accountable]

We are following them to a bad place economically and culturally. I admit we have a ways to fall before coming the Middle East, but the point is valid. This does not imply they are culturally superior to us, ok?

I didn't read it as superior but rather more advanced. Still seems odd to me because it implies that the ME used to be where we are, culturally. Are you pointing out a cycle that you see us on?

 

[Minor Axis]

I didn't read it as superior but rather more advanced. Still seems odd to me because it implies that the ME used to be where we are, culturally. Are you pointing out a cycle that you see us on?

See my edit reply #238