Republican Judgement

[Tim]

Why are you so arrogant to believe that you are the exception rather than the rule? What makes you more special than the average person?

I'm not and that's the whole point. There are many of us that DO NOT mind paying our taxes and having the government set up social safety nets with those taxes. So you can bitch and complain all you want about wanting to remove them, but it will never happen until people like you become the majority... and that isn't going to happen

 

[Accountable]

I'm not and that's the whole point. There are many of us that DO NOT mind paying our taxes and having the government set up social safety nets with those taxes. So you can bitch and complain all you want about wanting to remove them, but it will never happen until people like you become the majority... and that isn't going to happen

I've never bitched nor complained about safety nets, nor wanting them removed. We disagree on the very definition of safety net, I think.

 

[Tim]

I've never bitched nor complained about safety nets, nor wanting them removed. We disagree on the very definition of safety net, I think.

Sure you did, please let me refresh you definition of government and it's role.

We only disagree about scope and scale, rather than anything fundamental. I agree that government is necessary to a functioning society, but only insofar as to keep citizens from infringing on other citizens' rights and freedoms (basically keeping honest people honest) and protecting society from outside forces who would do the society harm. Government, imo, should create a shell within which we all move and do and be as free as possible.

Within that shell, the citizens are responsible for each other, as individuals. One citizen should not be forced to care for another, it should be expected. Social norms should establish and reinforce such behavior. Excessive government involvement in the form of social programs relieve the citizens of that responsibility and breeds resentment between those that benefit from the programs and those that don't.

 

[FreightTrain]

You guys are out of your freaking minds if you believe that the social programs in place are bad for this country. There is very good reasons they are in place and maybe you should actually read about their inception.
Can you honestly sit there and say that social security is a bad program? Do you have any idea what it was like for millions of retired people before social security?

We the people ARE the government. If the majority of us want social security as a safety net for us when we retire, then that's the way it's going to be. The government you guys have a hard on for will never come to pass. You can bitch and moan all you want about limited government but it isn't going to happen. There will be times when the country has a lapse in judgement and votes in people like Scott Walker and Rand Paul, but they won't last long when they start stripping away the safety nets. Those safety nets that are in place for good reason.

Thanks for being the voice of reason in political debates. :thumbup We may not see eye-to-eye spiritually, but I'm totally in-line with your view on politics and other debates.

 

[Accountable]

Sure you did, please let me refresh you definition of government and it's role.

Wow. Obviously we have different definitions about bitching and complaining, too.
How about safety nets?

 

[Minor Axis]

I've got a question. Is Social Security an entitlement?

 

[Accountable]

I've got a question. Is Social Security an entitlement?

It's an entitlement program. Is that what you mean?

 

[CityGirl]

Here is an example of republican judgement

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUtKrApIH8c&feature=player_embedded

Rep. Rob Woodall (R-GA) faced criticism this week when video was released of him telling a constituent that she should sponsor her own health care instead of using the government’s Medicare program.
The Georgia Democratic Party released more video Wednesday from that same town hall event where Woodall explained why he wouldn’t give up his own government-funded health care program.
“You take government-subsidized health care, but you are not obligated to take that if you don’t want to,” Democratic activist Ilene Johnson told Woodall. “Why aren’t you going out on the free market in the state where you are a resident and buy your own health care?”
“It’s because it’s free,” Woodall replied. “It’s because it’s free. The same reason I went out to Walgreens and bought Activon when I don’t have any arthritis pain. Because it’s free. Folks, if you give people things for free, don’t blame them for taking them.”
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution has a transcript.
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2...-his-government-health-care-because-its-free/

 

[hart]

If you pay into Social Security aren't u entitled to receive it upon retiring?

 

[rback33]

Typical politician there CG...talkin out both sides of his mouth.... he had me for a sec when he asked "when do i decide I am gonna start taking care of me?"

Then the train wreck happened...

 

[CityGirl]

I thought they were derailing completely, last week. Ga rep., Rob Woodall, above and then Eric Cantor indicating no federal emergency funds for Missouri until something was cut from the budget to pay for it. The Kansas rep, Pete DeGraaf, who equated rape to a flat tire...It was like the whole shoe store was going into the mouth of the republican party.

 

[Minor Axis]

It's an entitlement program. Is that what you mean?

It is a program that you pay into to receive a benefit. IMO, this program would have worked beautifully if it had not been sabotaged by both political parties for the last 50 years, along the lines of a forced savings program. It is inexcusable that these funds have been used to fund the general budget. It makes me so mad I see red.

If you pay into Social Security aren't u entitled to receive it upon retiring?

Yes you are, but as I said the program has been sabotaged and may have been harmed irreparably.

 

[Alien Allen]

It is a program that you pay into to receive a benefit. IMO, this program would have worked beautifully if it had not been sabotaged by both political parties for the last 50 years, along the lines of a forced savings program. It is inexcusable that these funds have been used to fund the general budget. It makes me so mad I see red.



Yes you are, but as I said the program has been sabotaged and may have been harmed irreparably.

you can keep repeating that all you like but it will not make it true

all the robbing of the fund did was to make the inevitable sooner

do the numbers and there is no way in hell this is anything but a legalized ponzi scheme which is going to collapse,

 

[Tim]

you can keep repeating that all you like but it will not make it true

all the robbing of the fund did was to make the inevitable sooner

do the numbers and there is no way in hell this is anything but a legalized ponzi scheme which is going to collapse,

By your definition, ALL insurance is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

Do the numbers for life insurance, there's no way in hell I should be able to get $500k in coverage for $50/month, but I can. If you can't see that this money paid in isn't static, then this conversation isn't going anywhere.

 

[Minor Axis]

By your definition, ALL insurance is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

Do the numbers for life insurance, there's no way in hell I should be able to get $500k in coverage for $50/month, but I can. If you can't see that this money paid in isn't static, then this conversation isn't going anywhere.

Our conservative leaning forum members as a rule, seem to think we'd be better off under Republican rule than Democratic rule. Both have been a disaster, but average citizens have a better shot at being represented via Democrats with no shot being represented by Republicans who are preoccupied with coddling the rich. They also think that by deconstructing the major social programs, SS and Medicare, that somehow magically the economy will become wonderful. But that is only part of the equation. We have corporate leaders who believe they are entitled to millions annually while the rest of can go suck hind tit. The wholesale exportation of millions of what were good paying jobs, the continued enrichment of the rich, and subsequent accumulation of wealth in the top 10% guarantees that our economy will continue to suffer for average citizens. The end result of eradicating SS and MC is just another way to take something more from the working class who are all ready in the process of losing it all. Viva La Revolution!

you can keep repeating that all you like but it will not make it true

all the robbing of the fund did was to make the inevitable sooner

do the numbers and there is no way in hell this is anything but a legalized ponzi scheme which is going to collapse,

I'm sorry but I disagree with you completely. Robbing the fund along with robbing average people of their livelihoods is the culprit. When middle class income is high, there is high contributions into the system. When contributions lag substantially, the obligation still remains. We can thank the lowering of our standard of living on whoever your handy culprit is. However, I acknowledge it appears the SS system will have to be restructured to continue. Thank you politicians. Robbing the SS Trust Fund to fund the General Budget has been criminal. Yes, Democrats, damn you, your just as guilty!!

Do you know how much I love this chart? Not for the condition it reveals but the clarity it offers:

 

[CityGirl]

Our conservative leaning forum members as a rule, seem to think we'd be better off under Republican rule than Democratic rule. Both have been a disaster, but average citizens have a better shot at being represented via Democrats with no shot being represented by Republicans who are preoccupied with coddling the rich. They also think that by deconstructing the major social programs, SS and Medicare, that somehow magically the economy will become wonderful. But that is only part of the equation. We have corporate leaders who believe they are entitled to millions annually while the rest of can go suck hind tit. The wholesale exportation of millions of what were good paying jobs, the continued enrichment of the rich, and subsequent accumulation of wealth in the top 10% guarantees that our economy will continue to suffer for average citizens. The end result of eradicating SS and MC is just another way to take something more from the working class who are all ready in the process of losing it all. Viva La Revolution!



I'm sorry but I disagree with you completely. Robbing the fund along with robbing average people of their livelihoods is the culprit. When middle class income is high, there is high contributions into the system. When contributions lag substantially, the obligation still remains. We can thank the lowering of our standard of living on you know who.

Do you know how much I love this chart? Not for the condition it reveals but the clarity it offers:

Merges a little with the thread about people voting against their own best interest

 

[CityGirl]

Weird, I couldn't see the full reply of minor axis' until I responded with quote
Now I see it on his original as well as my quote

Anyway, in regards to the pie chart. I've seen this chart before and I agree re: it's clarity and that 7% wedge is the piece of the pie that the average Americans are balking about and repeating the misnomer that they don't pay any taxes. This pie chart begs the question....With what shall they pay those taxes?

 

[BadBoy]

If more people voted perhaps it would matter. Its all a moot point. Money makes the world go round and always will. Get a college education, invent something, start a company, whatever it takes. Make as much as you can and make a difference. People love to complain, yet do nothing about it except post on the internet about how the world isn't fair. Suck it up, quit taking hand outs and make a change.

The Republicans want to keep their money and the Democrats want to spend all of the Republicans money, yet these Democrats in office are in the top 1% and would cry like babies if they had to pay their "fair" share of the tax burden.

EDIT: I should also state that I do believe the upper money makers should pay more in taxes, but that goes along with the corporations and everything else. Don't be surprised if we lose more jobs to India and China though, because the corporations will want to "maximize" profits. It's really a lose-lose.

 

[Alien Allen]

By your definition, ALL insurance is nothing more than a Ponzi scheme.

Do the numbers for life insurance, there's no way in hell I should be able to get $500k in coverage for $50/month, but I can. If you can't see that this money paid in isn't static, then this conversation isn't going anywhere.

and if you can not see that the numbers of workers versus the number getting SS and medicare is the opposite of what it was years ago then we are not going to get anywhere either.

In the case of these programs it is not the income that is going into the funds but the amount being drawn out of the funds. And even if Gores lock box had been in effect 60 years ago the funds would still be in dire trouble down the road.

 

[CityGirl]

In Australia, voting is compulsory for every citizen 18 and older. http://www.aec.gov.au/faqs/voting_australia.htm It is my understanding they are not obliged to cast a ballot but they are obliged to attend a polling place and failure to do so results in penalty. Voting is considered a civic duty along with taxation, compulsory education and jury duty. No doubt it is a subject for heated debated but I don't think it is a bad idea. It could curb a lot of the apathy we see. Again, they are not required to vote but they are required to present to the polling place and then they can opt out.
They have a 94-96% voter turn out.