Republican Judgement

[Minor Axis]

I'm guessing you never had a conversation with the man about how he came to be successful. If he's typical of successful American businessmen, he'd likely blow you away with his work ethic and his willingness to show you how to parlay your computer skills into a successful business so that you could pay your own employees a wage you felt them worthy of.

How should wages be determined?
1) Individual largess.
2) Value and contribution to the effort.
3) Numbers- the more available workers, the lower the wage

For the sake of profits, corporations have been very successful in destroying the middle class at least in the U.S. People in the U.S. tend to rail against the idea of a world government, but medium to large corporations are fine with accessing a world work force. Why aren't we railing against that? Some of us are, but not enough.

What level of loyalty should we demand?

 

[Accountable]

How should wages be determined?
1) Individual largess.
2) Value and contribution to the effort.
3) Numbers- the more available workers, the lower the wage

For the sake of profits, corporations have been very successful in destroying the middle class at least in the U.S. People in the U.S. tend to rail against the idea of a world government, but medium to large corporations are fine with accessing a world work force. Why aren't we railing against that? Some of us are, but not enough.

What level of loyalty should we demand?

My comment was to Ed as a suggestion as to how he personally can improve things. When we're talking about a small business with only a couple of employees, then absolutely leave it up to individual largess. Quality people will work for the owner that they choose to, either based on compensation, societal impact, personal fulfillment, charisma of the owner, or any other reason they choose to cite.
The owner can base the largess on 2 & 3 if he wishes, or on anything else, or at least he should be allowed to. That way good businessmen will flourish based on their good business skills, and bad businessmen won't be rescued by regulations & allowed to survive longer than they ought to.

 

[Minor Axis]

I am frick'n disgusted. We (average citizens) are under attack.

Why Wouldn't the Tea Party Shut It Down- NYTimes Editorial.

That’s not to say there is no fiscal mission in the right’s agenda, both nationally and locally — only that the mission has nothing to do with deficit reduction. The real goal is to reward the G.O.P.’s wealthiest patrons by crippling what remains of organized labor, by wrecking the government agencies charged with regulating and policing corporations, and, as always, by rewarding the wealthiest with more tax breaks. The bankrupt moral equation codified in the Bush era — that tax cuts tilted to the highest bracket were a higher priority even than paying for two wars — is now a given. The once-bedrock American values of shared sacrifice and equal economic opportunity have been overrun.

In this bigger picture, the Wisconsin governor’s fawning 20-minute phone conversation with a prankster impersonating the oil billionaire David Koch last week, while entertaining, is merely a footnote. The Koch Industries political action committee did contribute to Walker’s campaign (some $43,000) and did help underwrite Tea Party ads and demonstrations in Madison. But this governor is merely a petty-cash item on the Koch ledger — as befits the limited favors he can offer Koch’s mammoth, sprawling, Kansas-based industrial interests.

Look to Washington for the bigger story. As The Los Angeles Times recently reported, Koch Industries and its employees form the largest bloc of oil and gas industry donors to members of the new House Energy and Commerce Committee, topping even Exxon Mobil. And what do they get for that largess? As a down payment, the House budget bill not only reduces financing for the Environmental Protection Agency but also prohibits its regulation of greenhouse gases.

Here again, the dollars that will be saved are minute in terms of the federal deficit, but the payoff to Koch interests from a weakened E.P.A. is priceless. The same dynamic is at play in the House’s reduced spending for the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Internal Revenue Service. and the Commodities Futures Trading Commission (charged with regulation of the esoteric Wall Street derivatives that greased the financial crisis). The reduction in the deficit will be minimal, but the bottom lines for the Kochs and their peers, especially on Wall Street, will swell.

 

[Minor Axis]

NY Times: Shock Doctrine:

What’s happening in Wisconsin is...a power grab — an attempt to exploit the fiscal crisis to destroy the last major counterweight to the political power of corporations and the wealthy. And the power grab goes beyond union-busting. The bill in question is 144 pages long, and there are some extraordinary things hidden deep inside.

For example, the bill includes language that would allow officials appointed by the governor to make sweeping cuts in health coverage for low-income families without having to go through the normal legislative process.

And then there’s this: “Notwithstanding ss. 13.48 (14) (am) and 16.705 (1), the department may sell any state-owned heating, cooling, and power plant or may contract with a private entity for the operation of any such plant, with or without solicitation of bids, for any amount that the department determines to be in the best interest of the state. Notwithstanding ss. 196.49 and 196.80, no approval or certification of the public service commission is necessary for a public utility to purchase, or contract for the operation of, such a plant, and any such purchase is considered to be in the public interest and to comply with the criteria for certification of a project under s. 196.49 (3) (b).”

What’s that about? The state of Wisconsin owns a number of plants supplying heating, cooling, and electricity to state-run facilities (like the University of Wisconsin). The language in the budget bill would, in effect, let the governor privatize any or all of these facilities at whim. Not only that, he could sell them, without taking bids, to anyone he chooses. And note that any such sale would, by definition, be “considered to be in the public interest.”

If this sounds to you like a perfect setup for cronyism and profiteering — remember those missing billions in Iraq? — you’re not alone.

Is this the road where Democracy takes us?

 

[Accountable]

That phrase - "includes [or contains] language that would allow ..." - always sends chills down my spine. Legalese is constantly and consistently used to obfuscate; contract lawyers & politicians ... especially politicians ... either hide their true intentions inside a cloud of confusion or reinterpret & redefine laws to excuse or admit activity that they were never intended to cover.

Does this governor intend to privatize utilities and strip poor people of medical welfare? It doesn't matter. Someone could do it in the future, so you can be damn certain that someone would.

 

[Minor Axis]

The Republican power grab at the State Level Continues:

In Michigan the Emergency Financial Manager Bill is on the verge of passage.

LANSING — With over 1,000 union members and supporters on the lawn, and hundreds packing the Capitol dome chanting “kill the bill,” the GOP-controlled state Senate pushed the controversial Emergency Financial Manager legislation to the precipice of passage on Tuesday.

The chamber is expected to pass the legislative package Wednesday morning. Following passage, the bill will go to a conference committee of both chambers to hammer out differences in legislation passed in each body. Both bodies will then vote on the conference committee legislation. It will then go to Republican Gov. Rick Snyder, who is expected to sign it.

Unions and others oppose the legislation because it would give broad new powers to emergency financial managers, who are appointed by the state treasurer. Those powers include the ability to nullify collective bargained agreements, imposition of new agreements for those bargaining units which will have effect for as much as five years after the EMF leaves office and the ability for the manager to dissolve local governing bodies of schools and cities. The EMF would also have the power to eliminate any local ordinance or law he or she decides to eliminate.

Critics argue that the deep cuts in school funding and revenue sharing proposed by Snyder and Republican legislators could push many cities over the brink into bankruptcy, dramatically increasing the number of cities under the control of state-appointed emergency managers that will, after the passage of this bill, have unprecedented and — many argue — unconstitutional powers.

Democrats, who are outnumbered in the Senate 26-12, attempted to attach over a dozen amendments to legislation. The amendments were voted down on generally party line votes. One measure, intended to cap the pay of EMF appointees to no more than that of the governor, was initially approved by the chamber, but then on a reconsideration vote was shot down.

Appointed official has the ability to dissolve the governing bodies of schools and cities?? Is this what you call Democracy? I call it a stake in the heart of Democracy. Some might call it Fascism.

 

[Accountable]

The Republican power grab at the State Level Continues:

In Michigan the Emergency Financial Manager Bill is on the verge of passage.



Appointed official has the ability to dissolve the governing bodies of schools and cities?? Is this what you call Democracy? I call it a stake in the heart of Democracy. Some might call it Fascism.

Here's Maddow's take on it. I got this from another forum & only listened to the first five minutes. It was enough for me.

I don't like Maddow's politics, but she's generally very thorough in her research. That proposal of installing a manager who can unilaterally dissolve elected local gov't scares the shit out of me and would be enough for me to start calling for my governor's recall, along with any other representative who signed off on it. As I see it, it's yet another example showing that the Repubs are no more interested in individual liberty than the dems are.

 

[Minor Axis]

Here's Maddow's take on it. I got this from another forum & only listened to the first five minutes. It was enough for me.

I don't like Maddow's politics, but she's generally very thorough in her research. That proposal of installing a manager who can unilaterally dissolve elected local gov't scares the shit out of me and would be enough for me to start calling for my governor's recall, along with any other representative who signed off on it. As I see it, it's yet another example showing that the Repubs are no more interested in individual liberty than the dems are.

I'm sure you can tell me why Democrats are not fit to lead, but I'd say this bull shit going on in State Legislatures definitely disqualifies Republicans from leadership roles.

 

[Accountable]

I'm sure you can tell me why Democrats are not fit to lead, but I'd say this bull shit going on in State Legislatures definitely disqualifies Republicans from leadership roles.

WI governor is repub, so is my governor. I don't like partisanship so Dems are just as fucked up as repubs.

 

[Minor Axis]

Republican's Trying To Shock And Awe Democrats Into Submission- USA Today 15Mar2011.

Attacking Democrat demographics in an effort to diminish Obama's relection's chances.

Republicans are employing a similar "shock and awe" campaign. The pre-emptive strikes the GOP is launching aren't so much a direct attack on Obama as they are intended to destroy the base of his support before the 2012 presidential race begins.

 

[Minor Axis]

I was listening to Vermont's Independent Senator Burnie Sanders speak on MSNBC last night and what he says sounds good to me. In a nut shell, to get our of our current predicament we are going to have to share the pain, cutting spending and increasing taxes. This means that the wealthy and large corporations are going to have to pay their fair share. Now the problem (that most in this forum realize) is what the GOP considers "fair". They think it is fair that the wealthy and large multinational corporations pay very little, that social programs will be eradicated, and most revenue to be raised will be on the backs of the middle class and poor.

I just wish we could help a lot of the conservative minded who fall in the range of low-middle income see that the Greedy Old Party is not really their friends. In the GOP big view, they like the rest of us average citizens are expendable.

When I hear cries from conservatives wailing about how much taxes the rich pay compared to the rest, all you have to do is look at the following chart to understand where the wealth in this country exists. And the FUCKING Republicans want to lower the rich's taxes and make people who live on ALL of their income, give up dinner to pay taxes.



I borrowed this from a friends post. Forum conservatives, be my guest and do your best to pick this apart.

The top 20% have, according to this graph, 83% of the financial wealth. The top 1% that you worry about, have 43% of the financial wealth in this country, and pay 37% of the tax. They are getting that 43% of money from SOMEWHERE...it didn't just appear. And they should be paying taxes on it.

But, let's just look at this from some made up numbers. Out of 100 people, 97 of them make $25,000 a year, and 3 of them make $1m. Any tax system...even a flat tax system...should have a basic cost-of-living deduction, the same number for all people. In this hypothetical case, it's $10,000 (which is low). So the AGI for each is $15,000 and $990,000, respectively.
- 3% of the people make 55.3% of the all wages.
- That same 3% of people would pay 67.12% of the taxes.
- That 3% still gets to keep, after their deduction, 66 times more money.
- Now add in investment and capital gains and other income into the mix, and their share goes much higher.

There's nothing unfair in that situation, in my opinion. And from what I've been able to find, I fall in the top 20% of income earners, and I'd feel that way if I was the top income earner. Absolutely no one (even the most savvy entrepreneur) got where they are by themselves. Those 97 other people more than likely had a great influence on the success of the other 3.

The reason the top must pay more then the lower classes is because there is no way they could deduct near the same percentage of their incomes that the poor can, which should not be surprising or considered unfair. It takes a certain amount of money to just survive. When you have very little, survival alone is a large portion of your income. When you are wealthy, survival doesn't even factor in.

 

[Alien Allen]

I will accept more taxing the rich when the day comes that everybody pays taxes

when 50% don't and then you have the wealthy paying a huge percentage that is not fair either

and as to taxing business you liberals still do not understand that we end up paying for that. Not the business. And if you mean to only tax profits then you are dreaming if you think that has no impact on a business

God the wealth envy of the liberals just never ends

 

[Minor Axis]

I will accept more taxing the rich when the day comes that everybody pays taxes

when 50% don't and then you have the wealthy paying a huge percentage that is not fair either

and as to taxing business you liberals still do not understand that we end up paying for that. Not the business. And if you mean to only tax profits then you are dreaming if you think that has no impact on a business

God the wealth envy of the liberals just never ends

Look at the chart. How about the bottom 80% pay 7%?

I find it incredibly hypocritical that John Boehner considers cooperation with Pakistan critical, but he can't carry that same message to Congress and our President. I'm sorry but just how fucked up is that? This is the type of politician we do not need or want. Instead of trying to get results that will benefit the country, the GOPpers are trying to stall for 4 years until the next election and do nothing but block everything they disagree with resulting in nothing, NOTHING being fixed. We can't afford these tactics for 4 years at time. I hold the voters who put these people into office responsible. We are sinking our own ship.

Boehner Says Pakistan Relationship Critical

 

[Alien Allen]

so what you are really saying is Boehner should kiss the ground Obama walks on as it must be sacred ground.

Why should the republicans or anybody agree to what the liberals want? The liberals have had control of congress for how long now and you see what that accomplished.

Did you say back when Bush was president that Pelosi should cooperate with Bush. Nope all you liberals did was to whine that Bush was the one not cooporating

The liberal version of cooperation is to do what ever they want or you are obstructing

And you claim you are not a democrat

 

[Accountable]

Look at the chart. How about the bottom 80% pay 7%?

I find it incredibly hypocritical that John Boehner considers cooperation with Pakistan critical, but he can't carry that same message to Congress and our President. I'm sorry but just how fucked up is that? This is the type of politician we do not need or want. Instead of trying to get results that will benefit the country, the GOPpers are trying to stall for 4 years until the next election and do nothing but block everything they disagree with resulting in nothing, NOTHING being fixed.

What would you have Boehner cooperate with?

 

[Tim]

Cooperate? Hell, it would be nice if he would do anything. His BIG promise was to focus on jobs... so can anyone point to where he has done anything at all to create jobs? Actually, can anyone point to any piece of legislation that has been put forward by this congress that helps the country in any way? Anything?

Shall we compare the first 132 days of the 111th congress and the 112th congress? I will guarantee that the dedemocratically held 111th congress passed a hell of a lot more meaningful legislation for the middle class than what has been done under Boehner.

 

[Alien Allen]

You still don't get it. The govt does not create jobs unless you want to count the public sector ones which are bloated and sucking from the tax coffers.

And if you don't think the govt is bloated I can give you one example I personally know up. I deal with the states Department of Environmental Quality. In one of their divisions they have a PR department. Can you tell me why a fucking govt agency should have a PR department? That should tell you tons how the govt is effecting the private sector

The best the govt can do to create jobs is get the hell out of the way and let the private sector get on it

 

[Tim]

Way to not even address the question...

And YES the governments job IS to create jobs through legislation. I can't help that your incapable of seeing the numerous ways that the government maintains and creates an environment for healthy companies to thrive and grow. This creates jobs. The government protects American jobs from foreign interests and unfair practices. This protects jobs.
The list could go on and on... but if you aren't capable of realizing the governments roll in American jobs, then I guss this conversation isn't going anyplace.

 

[Minor Axis]

so what you are really saying is Boehner should kiss the ground Obama walks on as it must be sacred ground.

Why should the republicans or anybody agree to what the liberals want? The liberals have had control of congress for how long now and you see what that accomplished.

Did you say back when Bush was president that Pelosi should cooperate with Bush. Nope all you liberals did was to whine that Bush was the one not cooporating

The liberal version of cooperation is to do what ever they want or you are obstructing

And you claim you are not a democrat

And you are dreaming. When Bush was in charge the Republicans had no interest in compromise then either.

What would you have Boehner cooperate with?

I said cooperate, but what I ment was compromise. The GOPpers have no interest in anything but dictating. The point is Boehner expresses an interest in working with Pakistan, but has no interest in working/compromising with the other party, something that is part of his job description.

 

[Alien Allen]

And you are dreaming. When Bush was in charge the Republicans had no interest in compromise then either.



I said cooperate, but what I ment was compromise. The GOPpers have no interest in anything but dictating.

You still do not see the hipocrisy

Neither side wants to compromise

and they should not

that has been a lot of the problem

people get elected on bullshit promises and then they compromise

You are the one dreaming because I have never said the right wanted to compromise yet you demand they do while ignoring that the left has no interest in compromise