Republican Judgement

[Accountable]

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We several hundred years of recorded history that proves this point.

Several hundred years of poor people becoming poorer and ever poorer ... it's a wonder they haven't run completely out of money by now. :humm:

I've seen it first hand. I used to maintain this guys Apple setup. He was a terrible payer for one thing, like getting blood out of a stone. A multimillionaire from a couple of small businesses. Had a gigantic house in Marbella with a couple of minimum-wage staff. His businesses are take away food. He employs a few minimum wage staff.

I'm guessing you never had a conversation with the man about how he came to be successful. If he's typical of successful American businessmen, he'd likely blow you away with his work ethic and his willingness to show you how to parlay your computer skills into a successful business so that you could pay your own employees a wage you felt them worthy of.

 

[Zorak]

Ed, looks like you've had a few too many christmas tipples

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Several hundred years of poor people becoming poorer and ever poorer ... it's a wonder they haven't run completely out of money by now. :humm:

I'm sure they don't run out. But one dollar won't buy you much these days :dunno

 

[Springsteen]

I wish TNA iMPACT was a successful show so Bryan Alvarez could get his gold boat. Which you can find here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMOmBlIwoTE

As for rich businessmen, I don't mind them or their wealth because they have earnt the richness they have, so what if they want to buy boats, houses and cars they'll never use, it is their money, to do with what they please. It's stupid people who seemingly can't fathom this. As for poor people, that's the way the world is, it's always been that way. It won't die out by some magical wand waving.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I doubt they earnt it.

 

[retro]

I doubt they earnt it.

Oh give me a goddamn fucking break Kimmy.

I personally know businessmen and other successful professionals who have earned every fucking penny that they have. Enough to buy boats, planes, and run companies that employ thousands of people. You're blind if you don't think that rich people earned their money.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Lol so? Maybe they are god damn awful people, but of course you won't get to see that side, it would ruin their business's reputation You can't butter up cabbage.

And no, you won't get a break. That would ruin the fun

 

[retro]

Lol so? Maybe they are god damn awful people, but of course you won't get to see that side, it would ruin their business's reputation You can't butter up cabbage.

And no, you won't get a break. That would ruin the fun

Maybe you missed this part... I PERSONALLY know multiple people that have earned their "fortune" the hard way, starting from not much and building a business. These are no awful people, these are people that I know and can vouch for their integrity and quality as human beings. These are doctors, business owners, farmers, dairymen, and people from other professions.

I don't understand the mentality of deciding that people that make a lot of money are evil or bad because of it. They earned it, so why shouldn't they enjoy it. Why should people like yourself get to decide what is and isn't acceptable for them to do with their money. The people that I know by and large make contributions to charitable organizations, churches, charities, rescue missions, and the list goes on. These aren't bad people, these are good people that had the good fortune, skills, and/or business sense to make a good living for themselves.

The people that I know, I by and large know outside of business, or I know them both in business and via non-business interactions. I know there are other people like that. Hell, Bill Gates started with almost nothing, and now Microsoft is one of the top employers in the United States, if not the world, and he's one of the world's foremost philanthropists. Not all rich people are bad or evil as you seem to believe. Open up your eyes a little bit and you'll find the truth.

 

[Springsteen]

Of course rich people have earnt their money. So what if they have a lot of it? It's stupid that people get jealous of rich people because they have money coming out of their ears.

Why should people like yourself get to decide what is and isn't acceptable for them to do with their money

Exactly, get off your fucking high horse, oh moralist. I'm sure your wacko friend who makes the videos has had a rant so you're most likely preaching from him

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

So you think cause you know a couple of good guys that you can generalise it to EVERY single rich business person? I'm sure if you ask around, there will be people you know who have been ripped off by their employers. Back in the day, when I watched the idiot box once, I can't count how many times I saw big bosses walk off with money and rich people shit, and leaving their business and employees bankrupt, customers pissed off, lives shattered. Do you think those rich people deserve what they have? Not ALL rich business people are deserving, whether you know a couple of good ones or not. And if you think this is naive of me, well it's not, I studied business in high school, and even further, I did good at it

 

[Accountable]

So you think cause you know a couple of good guys that you can generalise it to EVERY single rich business person?

So you think cause you don't know a couple of good guys that you can generalise a negative stereotype to EVERY single rich business person?

Not ALL rich business people are deserving, whether you know a couple of good ones or not.

How does that justify you painting all with your broad brush?

And if you think this is naive of me, well it's not, I studied business in high school, and even further, I did good at it

:24: *pats the naive little bugger on the head*

You've made your decision to condemn an entire group of people on a TV show you watched once and a high school course designed to introduce you to the generalized most basic principles of business? How very mature of you.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I didn't say ALL were bad either, read between the lines.
And don't touch my head.

 

[edgray]

Several hundred years of poor people becoming poorer and ever poorer ... it's a wonder they haven't run completely out of money by now. :humm:

If more money hadn't have been created through the fractional reserve system, we would have run out a long time ago as the wealthy hoarded more and more of the total amount.

And the money we do have has been so devalued that it doesn't go very far.

And all of this has been holding back the improvement of our lives. Our improvements have come mostly through the exploitation of other cultures.

I'm guessing you never had a conversation with the man about how he came to be successful. If he's typical of successful American businessmen, he'd likely blow you away with his work ethic and his willingness to show you how to parlay your computer skills into a successful business so that you could pay your own employees a wage you felt them worthy of.

Yeah the whole one-man-makes-millions-by-himself myth. It's bullshit. You only get rich by exploitation and differential advantage. In fact, most rich people simply inherited theirs. We know this to be true because social mobility is so low.

As for teaching me how to make a successful business, I have had a very successful business in the past when the economic climate was much better. A one man show, sure, but successful nonetheless. My industry, however, is capped. Designers don't make it rich.

 

[Zorak]

Yeah the whole one-man-makes-millions-by-himself myth. It's bullshit. You only get rich by exploitation and differential advantage. In fact, most rich people simply inherited theirs. We know this to be true because social mobility is so low.

As for teaching me how to make a successful business, I have had a very successful business in the past when the economic climate was much better. A one man show, sure, but successful nonetheless. My industry, however, is capped. Designers don't make it rich.

A pretty typical answer from left-field. There will always be people born with silver spoons in their mouth - the difference now is that anybody can go out there and earn their children that same silver spoon. You may rave against the successful all you want, but I and everyone else here will acknowledge and praise their acumen and work ethic.

You're industry isn't capped, it's volatile. It has always been. I will never work with computers in any fashion, because I don't fancy being made redundant every year.

 

[edgray]

A pretty typical answer from left-field. There will always be people born with silver spoons in their mouth - the difference now is that anybody can go out there and earn their children that same silver spoon. You may rave against the successful all you want, but I and everyone else here will acknowledge and praise their acumen and work ethic.

You're industry isn't capped, it's volatile. It has always been. I will never work with computers in any fashion, because I don't fancy being made redundant every year.

Not true in the slightest, Zorak.

I'm not raving against the successful, success comes in many, many forms. I'm raving against those that get rich by exploitation, and how that robs off everyone else.

My industry is capped. Graphic Designers, whilst sometimes being able to make a good living, don't get rich.

 

[Zorak]

Not true in the slightest, Zorak.

I'm not raving against the successful, success comes in many, many forms. I'm raving against those that get rich by exploitation, and how that robs off everyone else.

My industry is capped. Graphic Designers, whilst sometimes being able to make a good living, don't get rich.

Some might say that's a good thing considering the shite they put out in relation to how much they charge for it. :jk

 

[edgray]

Some might say that's a good thing considering the shite they put out in relation to how much they charge for it. :jk

yeah well you got me there

 

[Accountable]

If more money hadn't have been created through the fractional reserve system, we would have run out a long time ago as the wealthy hoarded more and more of the total amount.

And the money we do have has been so devalued that it doesn't go very far.

Your hoarding myth is amusing, but I agree with the rest. If we'd stayed with gold or some other rare commodity-based system ... well, no, then we'd just have printed money in smaller and smaller denominations. remember halfpennies?

TVs and such would only cost maybe a dollar or a pound, but we'd be making .50 per day.

Yeah the whole one-man-makes-millions-by-himself myth. It's bullshit. You only get rich by exploitation and differential advantage. In fact, most rich people simply inherited theirs. We know this to be true because social mobility is so low.

Most millionaires in America started with very little. True, self-made doesn't mean a person did everything himself without help from anyone at all, but I don't know of anyone that defines self-made that way. I only hear of that definition when people hyperbolize about the evil rich. I tried to find hard statistics on self-made millionaires and couldn't. Perhaps you could find some to support your claim that most rich people simply inherited theirs.

As for teaching me how to make a successful business, I have had a very successful business in the past when the economic climate was much better. A one man show, sure, but successful nonetheless. My industry, however, is capped. Designers don't make it rich.

Nothing is your responsibility, is it? You were successful, not from your own efforts but because of the economic climate. You failed, not from some mistake you may have made but because some invisible force has capped your industry. This is what baffles me so about you, Ed.

 

[Accountable]

I'm not raving against the successful, success comes in many, many forms. I'm raving against those that get rich by exploitation, and how that robs off everyone else.

An untrained eye would think that you're raving against the rich, full stop.

 

[edgray]

Your hoarding myth is amusing, but I agree with the rest. If we'd stayed with gold or some other rare commodity-based system ... well, no, then we'd just have printed money in smaller and smaller denominations. remember halfpennies?

TVs and such would only cost maybe a dollar or a pound, but we'd be making .50 per day.

ok that's great but we didn't, did we? concentrations of power created by capital and differential advantage made damn sure of that.

Most millionaires in America started with very little. True, self-made doesn't mean a person did everything himself without help from anyone at all, but I don't know of anyone that defines self-made that way. I only hear of that definition when people hyperbolize about the evil rich. I tried to find hard statistics on self-made millionaires and couldn't. Perhaps you could find some to support your claim that most rich people simply inherited theirs.

Where's your proof of this? Where I live, we have a lot of millionaires, more than our fair share. And I've had many as clients in the past. They didn't get there through hardwork, it was more down to one factor:

a) the industry they are in

They didn't work harder than anyone else, there are only so many hours in the day. They simply worked in a high-profit industry. Commonly around the world that's Real Estate, this is the main vehicle that has allowed the few "self-made" millionaires.

Nothing is your responsibility, is it? You were successful, not from your own efforts but because of the economic climate. You failed, not from some mistake you may have made but because some invisible force has capped your industry. This is what baffles me so about you, Ed.

The economic climate down here has made it nigh-on impossible. I did nothing wrong, just watched my clients slowly go out of business around me... and then being left with no clients.

I didn't fail. The economy did.

And futhermore, yes, my industry and profession are capped. We get paid for our work, there's no "profit" to be made, we simply get paid for an hourly rate.

An untrained eye would think that you're raving against the rich, full stop.

well they are unnecessary parasites.