Religious Inconsistencies

[Tim]

I agree with your summation, but I see a distinction between the reality we exist in and the projection of the concept 'faith' as an answer for the unknowable within our physical realm. So the concept of faith shouldn't be an issue that interferes with the logic of science, imo.....

I just want to be clear on the definition of faith as used in my references...

When I am talking about faith, I am referring to religious faith. I mean I have faith in a lot of things that can't be shown or proved.

Now onto a few things I want to clear up about what I believe.

First I am not an atheist because science cannot prove the existence of god or some sort of deity. I am not an atheist because I believe in science.
I am an atheist because the concept of believing in a deity doesn't make sense to me. Because I believe I understand why and where religion and the belief in deities came from. It just makes sense to me.

As far as "Blind faith" goes... I truly believe there is a difference in faith and blind faith..
No one has ever seen a black hole. Science can show mathematically they exist and their is a lot of evidence to their existence, but no hard proof. So yes I have faith that they exist. But it's backed up with pretty solid evidence and mathematics...
To truly believe in Thor sitting in the clouds would require blind faith... to me it just doesn't make sense to take someone else's story and blindly believe in it...
Those differences may not come across very well to you and I may have done a poor job defining them, but it's how I see things for me.

And I have no intention to shatter anyone's beliefs... but if that's the conclusion from their own thoughtful examination of their own beliefs, then so be it...

 

[Stone]

I just want to be clear on the definition of faith as used in my references...

When I am talking about faith, I am referring to religious faith. I mean I have faith in a lot of things that can't be shown or proved.

Now onto a few things I want to clear up about what I believe.

First I am not an atheist because science cannot prove the existence of god or some sort of deity. I am not an atheist because I believe in science.
I am an atheist because the concept of believing in a deity doesn't make sense to me. Because I believe I understand why and where religion and the belief in deities came from. It just makes sense to me.

As far as "Blind faith" goes... I truly believe there is a difference in faith and blind faith..
No one has ever seen a black hole. Science can show mathematically they exist and their is a lot of evidence to their existence, but no hard proof. So yes I have faith that they exist. But it's backed up with pretty solid evidence and mathematics...
To truly believe in Thor sitting in the clouds would require blind faith... to me it just doesn't make sense to take someone else's story and blindly believe in it...
Those differences may not come across very well to you and I may have done a poor job defining them, but it's how I see things for me.

And I have no intention to shatter anyone's beliefs... but if that's the conclusion from their own thoughtful examination of their own beliefs, then so be it...

I also am addressing religious faith when I refer to the unprovable in our discussion.

First I am not an atheist because....

Interesting, but I'm not present in this thread to challenge your personal choices.

As far as "Blind faith" goes... I truly believe there is a difference in faith and blind faith..
No one has ever seen a black hole. Science can show mathematically they exist and their is a lot of evidence to their existence, but no hard proof.

There is a difference when using the term ( faith) in a scientific example versus a religious manner. The proof statements of theology and science are inherently different and not comparable because the logic of each is too diverse.....apples and oranges.
Faith in the scientific sense involves a consensus of opinion to reach a conclusion/deduction.
Faith in the religious sense is a conclusion.

But a similarity exists with 'blind faith'
Blind faith involves a belief that defies the logic of the system, science or faith, and is taken for fact.

Consider science.......blind faith in a lab would be omitting a step or committing fraud in the scientific method of investigation in order to reach a conclusion that's preconceived. This is often publicized in the press when a scientist is accused of falsified or shoddy work on a notable project for intellectual/monetary gain.

Blind faith in religion is acceptance of faith in place of nonexistent fact....not just with out reason but including the rejection of anything that contradicts...... extreme examples involve rejecting elements of reality situated outside the concept of 'faith'......example...not just the theory of evolution-----> the denial that the proof of the event we call evolution exists and a replacement scenario ( creation science and Intelligent Design ) devised to replace reality and reinforce a particular religious belief.

And I have no intention to shatter anyone's beliefs

Then why bother posting?
You did post with the intent to set people straight......so how can you impose your beliefs with out intention?

 

[Mercury]

Here is something I don't get. According to the BuyBull, Man by his very nature is evil/sinful. God was so angered by the sinfulness of man that he destroyed the world by flood. But, he saved a few sinful creatures to start all over with. Nothing like starting from scratch with a contaminated specimen. This is Einstein's definition of insanity!

Actually ... that is a good question ... I really don't know what the answer to that would be. I'm sure it can be explained and I would love to see one.

 

[Alien Allen]

I like it. When it comes to religion, what are you Allen?

If you believe in Heaven, and you spend an average of 70 years on Earth as a Human, then turn into your true spirit self to spend eternity in Heaven, then what was Earth, but a simulation? It's like a MMORPG where thousands of people play roles. Get it?

not sure how to answer but I will try

I do not believe there is a heaven.. or a hell.

unless some twisted fucking entity has made us their petri dish and this is hell that we live in.

We all base our opinions on very limited knowledge as to what is out there.

The universe is way beyond our comprehension so I have no clue what started life as we know it on our planet

 

[Stone]

I like it. ..............................

If you believe in Heaven, and you spend an average of 70 years on Earth as a Human, then turn into your true spirit self to spend eternity in Heaven, then what was Earth, but a simulation? It's like a MMORPG where thousands of people play roles. Get it?

Let's face it, your imagination and gaming sense has generated a scenario of fantastic proportions.
With religious beliefs like that with no obvious outside derivation, I still don't understand why you attack other people that follow established religious beliefs and not consider yourself a hypocrite.
How can you ever even consider yourself an agnostic with a religious belief like that?

Thanks for posting the above. It's a fantastic example of a personal religious inconsistency.

 

[Minor Axis]

Here is something I don't get. According to the BuyBull, Man by his very nature is evil/sinful. God was so angered by the sinfulness of man that he destroyed the world by flood. But, he saved a few sinful creatures to start all over with. Nothing like starting from scratch with a contaminated specimen. This is Einstein's definition of insanity!

It can be inferred that God was satisfied with Noah's dedicated faith and efforts although I'm sure Noah and his immediate family,( who by applying logic, we should all be descended from), as evidenced by humanity today, carried forward all the short comings of humanity. Basically he was giving humanity another chance. I'd say we are due for another flood, any day now. Honestly this stuff is a very human attempt to describe the imagined actions of God. Pretty fantastical, huh Stone? Lol.

not sure how to answer but I will try

I do not believe there is a heaven.. or a hell.

unless some twisted fucking entity has made us their petri dish and this is hell that we live in.

We all base our opinions on very limited knowledge as to what is out there.

The universe is way beyond our comprehension so I have no clue what started life as we know it on our planet

Damn, you sound like a fellow Agnostic! What do you think about spirituality (if you care to devulge)?

Let's face it, your imagination and gaming sense has generated a scenario of fantastic proportions.
With religious beliefs like that with no obvious outside derivation, I still don't understand why you attack other people that follow established religious beliefs and not consider yourself a hypocrite.
How can you ever even consider yourself an agnostic with a religious belief like that?

Thanks for posting the above. It's a fantastic example of a personal religious inconsistency.

LOL! Stone you are trying so hard to be smart, but I'm not going to waste my time debating someone who lacks basic reading comprehension or whose blinders makes it impossible for them to acknowledge what I've repeatedly said. I DON'T BELIEVE. Open your frick'n ears and listen...for a change. The scenario of fantastic proportions you want to assign as my belief, is my description of Christianity (lol) and any faith that believes in a spiritual afterlife. I understand, but did not appreciate Mr. Atheist calling me a nut case, but this stuff is right down your alley.

AND BTW, I don't view it in a negative light and I'm not critical of it's overall tones, just of all its specifics and BS stories that are still propped up today by those of the Christian faith, that have very little relevance for modern humans. When you look at the specifics and core of Jesus's teachings, you realize just how far Christianity has strayed. This is not me calling Jesus the Son of God, but examining the sense of the moral code he taught. Christianity is just one of many possibilities including the Atheist's oblivion.

Oh, and this time you forgot to add sophistry to your default two note accusal.

 

[Johnfromokc]

not sure how to answer but I will try

I do not believe there is a heaven.. or a hell.

unless some twisted fucking entity has made us their petri dish and this is hell that we live in.

We all base our opinions on very limited knowledge as to what is out there.

The universe is way beyond our comprehension so I have no clue what started life as we know it on our planet

Holy shit! :eek I'm in agreement with the curmudgeon from Michigan.

 

[Stone]

....................



LOL! Stone you are trying so hard to be smart, but I'm not going to waste my time debating someone who lacks basic reading comprehension or whose blinders makes it impossible for them to acknowledge what I've repeatedly said. I DON'T BELIEVE......................

Then why keep posting you have a belief derived from your imagination in which ....... a fantasy land of spirits exists and the present reality is a precursor.....all the while likening the process to a computer game.......and yet attack Christians for their beliefs

Yes,I do understand why you won't address my questions.......( )
But as long as you keep claiming to be an agnostic that has no religious beliefs.....and yet post them.......I am gong to ask you why you don't consider yourself to be a hypocrite?

I'm not attacking your faith or even asking you to explain why you do have these religious beliefs, I'm asking why you persist in being a hypocrite.

 

[Alien Allen]

Minor I don't have a view on spirituality. I hear people mention it but don't recall anybody indicating what it meant to them.

If I was to guess it would be a belief in a higher spirit but not in an organized religion.

 

[Alien Allen]

Holy shit! :eek I'm in agreement with the curmudgeon from Michigan.

That had to hurt

 

[Minor Axis]

Minor I don't have a view on spirituality. I hear people mention it but don't recall anybody indicating what it meant to them.

If I was to guess it would be a belief in a higher spirit but not in an organized religion.

I know you know this :

It's the notion that we are composed of both a physical, flesh and blood self and a spiritual core that continues after physical death. The concept of something the equates to a parallel dimension and a vehicle that carries the sum of your life experiences/ life energy forward either as individuals or as a communal pool of knowledge and wisdom.

For Stone's deaf ears: There is no Proof. It's not my belief, but it is my eternal hope (now Stone now, make fun of the word "hope"!), that my experience and rememberance of this life is preserved and benefit is carried forward. This is what I'd like to happen, but ultimately what I can call "belief", until I can establish more of a foundation for certainty, makes me an Agnostic which btw, does not deny God. It means we can guess, but we really don't know, at least I don't.

Agnostic: a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

 

[Stone]

........................


...................

..............................and I'm not critical of it's overall tones, .................

Then what was this if not criticism:

just of all its specifics and BS stories that are still propped up today by those of the Christian faith, that have very little relevance for modern humans. When you look at the specifics and core of Jesus's teachings, you realize just how far Christianity has strayed. This is not me calling Jesus the Son of God, but examining the sense of the moral code he taught. Christianity is just one of many possibilities including the Atheist's oblivion...........................

just of all its specifics

and BS stories

that have very little relevance for modern humans.

Looking at that criticism, how do you rationalize your own faith built on the imagery of a computer game?
Your specifics present no lessons to base a moral code upon.......'game over, win/lose/play again?

When you look at the specifics and core of Jesus's teachings, you realize just how far Christianity has strayed.

How does this rationalize your attacks on the entire Christian community?
In some twisted corner of your mind, do you equate all Christians to be the same?
That does appear to be your argument.

Christianity is just one of many possibilities including the Atheist's oblivion...........................

I'll tell you what logic positively does not include.........religious hating agnostics that hold to a religious faith ( like your fairy land of spirits/Earth Simulator ) whose existence demands a superior being exist for it's creation .......that's a contradiction.


Don't like the Christian faith? Go believe something else, or just chill ......but the BS you've been pulling is offensive, and as you read earlier, I'm not the only one that thinks you are a nutjob.....:eek......

 

[Stone]

............................

Agnostic: a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

And just who do you think created your fairy land/Earth Simulator?

Pull it out of your ass?..........

 

[Minor Axis]

Stone, so sad. I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

 

[Stone]

Stone, so sad. I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

Interesting rebuttal in a debate forum.
I don't feel sorry for you at all......I've enjoyed the humor

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Zorak]

Bwahahahaha

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Tuffdisc]

You mean atheists are not paedos themselves?

 

[Johnfromokc]