Religion Debate Thread

[Tim]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

I'm not attracted to men because I don't believe that to be right to be attracted to the same gender, just because other species have been known to have 'sex' with each other doesn't mean that homosexuality is right

Your attraction to men or women does not come from your conscious mind nor from a gene. It doesn't even come close to a choice.

Anyone that is attracted to one sex or another knows this without question. They never had to consciously decide to be attracted to one or the other. Then there are people that do have an attraction to both sexes. These people can definitely make a conscious decision which sex they want to be with. Maybe you fall into this group so to you it seems natural to make a choice to be with women. And I'm not saying this to offend you, not at all. It's none of my business what you like and don't like nor would I care either way. But having the attraction and acting on it are two completely different things that you seem to confuse.

For me, I know that I am attracted to women. There is no gray area there. I have never been attracted to or have been curious about being with a man, that's not a choice, that's hardwired in my brain. But I could have sexual relations with a man and that would be my choice.
That's the difference, one is a choice and one is not. I do not chose my sexual preference just like I don't chose to be right handed.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Yes, but that conscious awareness that they are not attracted to you comes from their subconscious desire for a different type.

Put aside the fact that you don't believe homosexuality is okay for a moment and answer these questions:

If sexuality is a choice, at what point in our lives do we make the decision to be straight or gay?

And if it is a choice, therefore you could potentially decide to become gay. Forget about the fact that you are not gay - if it is a choice then you are saying that if you one day somehow had your mind changed, you could then decide to be attracted to men. Yes?

Perhaps some people decided to be gay, don't ask me ask the person who is gay, oh wait they may say that they were born with....pointless

 

[HK]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Perhaps some people decided to be gay, don't ask me ask the person who is gay, oh wait they may say that they were born with....pointless

I'm not sure why you won't give me straight answers. I'm not trying to be offensive, I haven't been insulting. I just want to discuss your reasoning.

Are you trying to say that only homosexuality is a choice? Because when you say 'it's their choice to be gay' then that creates the implication that ALL sexuality is fluid and changeable. You being straight is, by your logic, just as much of a choice as being gay is because they are both just variations of attraction.

Also, considering the stigma that still comes with being gay, especially for men, if we're all born straight then why would anyone 'choose' to be gay?

If you've got no interest in actually talking this through though, please feel free to say so I can stop asking you questions you don't want to answer.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

I'm not sure why you won't give me straight answers. I'm not trying to be offensive, I haven't been insulting. I just want to discuss your reasoning.

Are you trying to say that only homosexuality is a choice? Because when you say 'it's their choice to be gay' then that creates the implication that ALL sexuality is fluid and changeable. You being straight is, by your logic, just as much of a choice as being gay is because they are both just variations of attraction.

Also, considering the stigma that still comes with being gay, especially for men, if we're all born straight then why would anyone 'choose' to be gay?

If you've got no interest in actually talking this through though, please feel free to say so I can stop asking you questions you don't want to answer.

No I am not saying that homosexuality is only a choice, from the posts that I have made previous to this, I have said that we all make choices in life it one or the other.

About the stigma statement, it is one of life mysteries why people choose to do things that isn't considered normal is most people's eyes, it is just that most people these days don't give a monkey about what homosexuals do or choose to do. If homosexuality were so natural, why the heck do they need pride marches? After all, they are not the only one that are persecuted

Are you suggesting that because gays can't choose it comes to them 'naturally' that we should do away with all sex crimes?

 

[HK]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

You realise that you're saying homosexuality is a sex crime?

There is a huge difference between two consenting male or female adults having sex because they find each other attractive, and someone violating an adult or a child for their own sick pleasure. Surely you can see that. Being gay is not a mental illness.

As for the comment about pride marches - however natural homosexuality is, it's been ostracised. Mainly due to religions teaching that it is a sin to be anything but straight. Pride marches are about being proud to be who you are, despite the fact that some people actively believe homosexuals are terrible people, just because they find their own sex attractive instead of the opposite one.

Now you say 'we all make choices in life it one or the other'. So can you tell me about when you made the decision to be straight? I get the feeling you'll avoid that question, because nobody can. You don't make a decision to be straight or gay, it's part of who you are.

 

[MoonOwl]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

IMO, people preaching atheism, science and logic are getting to be just as bad as people preaching God these days.

Indeed. They can shoot themselves in the foot as easily as an obsessed Christian can. :willy_nilly:

It's an awesome thing when a SnowAngel makes an appearance.:nod: It reaffirms that not everyone on the planet is an asswipe.:clap:cool

 

[hart]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

How did a thread about snow angels become a thread about if what sex we are attracted to is inborne? Weird.

Me I have no problem with people believing in God or not. I also think one's sexual orientation is inborne. Can you choose to ignore it? Sure, you can consciously decide you never want sex period. Does that stop all longings? I wouldn't think so, but we have freedom of choice to act on our desires or not. My two cents

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

You realise that you're saying homosexuality is a sex crime?

There is a huge difference between two consenting male or female adults having sex because they find each other attractive, and someone violating an adult or a child for their own sick pleasure. Surely you can see that. Being gay is not a mental illness.

As for the comment about pride marches - however natural homosexuality is, it's been ostracised. Mainly due to religions teaching that it is a sin to be anything but straight. Pride marches are about being proud to be who you are, despite the fact that some people actively believe homosexuals are terrible people, just because they find their own sex attractive instead of the opposite one.

Now you say 'we all make choices in life it one or the other'. So can you tell me about when you made the decision to be straight? I get the feeling you'll avoid that question, because nobody can. You don't make a decision to be straight or gay, it's part of who you are.

What are you saying? I did not imply anywhere that homosexuality is a sex crime apart for some countries in this world, unless you want to talk sense and stop implying what I am not saying, please speak again :thumbup I am fed with people like you and that Ed putting words where I am not saying things like that

 

[HK]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Are you suggesting that because gays can't choose it comes to them 'naturally' that we should do away with all sex crimes?

What are you saying? I did not imply anywhere that homosexuality is a sex crime apart for some countries in this world, unless you want to talk sense and stop implying what I am not saying, please speak again :thumbup I am fed with people like you and that Ed putting words where I am not saying things like that

Can you explain what you meant by the quoted sentence then? Because I can tell you what it looks like is you saying 'being gay is practically the same as people who commit sex crimes, so if we're okay with people being gay then we should be okay with rape and paedophiles'. If that's not what you're saying then what were you getting at exactly?

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Can you explain what you meant by the quoted sentence then? Because I can tell you what it looks like is you saying 'being gay is practically the same as people who commit sex crimes, so if we're okay with people being gay then we should be okay with rape and paedophiles'. If that's not what you're saying then what were you getting at exactly?

Can you read to say that if we 'don't choose our sexuality' that we should get rid of crimes that are sexuality motivated? By you and Ed implying that we can't 'choose' is like saying we should condone paedophilia and all other crimes that are sexual

 

[Niamh]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Can you read to say that if we 'don't choose our sexuality' that we should get rid of crimes that are sexuality motivated? By you and Ed implying that we can't 'choose' is like saying we should condone paedophilia and all other crimes that are sexual

paedophiles and rapists force and abuse an unwilling person - being gay is not even comparable.

 

[HK]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Can you read to say that if we 'don't choose our sexuality' that we should get rid of crimes that are sexuality motivated? By you and Ed implying that we can't 'choose' is like saying we should condone paedophilia and all other crimes that are sexual

That's a leap and a half.

There's a difference between sexuality and mental illness. Sex between consenting adults is far different to imposing your sexual desires onto non-consenting adults or children. Just because some people believe being gay is wrong, does not automatically put it in the same ballpark as child molestation.

I don't believe mental illness or being a gay are choices that we make, that much is true. I think people born with a mental illness, or the capacity for a mental illness, don't choose to be that way, why would they? Obviously it's an urge they should get help for though because it harms others. Being gay hurts no one.

There are a lot of human behaviours that we don't get a choice in. That doesn't mean it's all black and white - 'you can't help it so just go ahead and do it!' - because some behaviours are harmless, and some behaviours are harmful.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

That's a leap and a half.

There's a difference between sexuality and mental illness. Sex between consenting adults is far different to imposing your sexual desires onto non-consenting adults or children. Just because some people believe being gay is wrong, does not automatically put it in the same ballpark as child molestation.

I don't believe mental illness or being a gay are choices that we make, that much is true. I think people born with a mental illness, or the capacity for a mental illness, don't choose to be that way, why would they? Obviously it's an urge they should get help for though because it harms others. Being gay hurts no one.

There are a lot of human behaviours that we don't get a choice in. That doesn't mean it's all black and white - 'you can't help it so just go ahead and do it!' - because some behaviours are harmless, and some behaviours are harmful.

Stop accusing everyone having a mental illness, it is a choice, so just get a grip on yer self, you know both are wrong. Whether it hurts no one being gay is not the point, the point is you want to side track something by accusing people of having a mental illness when there is no proof, only scientists and psychologists speculation

Please do not say that I condone paedophiles, because that would be so untrue

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

paedophiles and rapists force and abuse an unwilling person - being gay is not even comparable.

So you say that they don't rape people? Are you denying they rape people? Or are you one of these people who stigmatise people for complaining about male rape? Have you also heard of Denis Neilsen and Jeffery Dalhmers? They had consensual sex with men, did they not murder them?

 

[All Else Failed]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

No I am not saying that homosexuality is only a choice, from the posts that I have made previous to this, I have said that we all make choices in life it one or the other.

About the stigma statement, it is one of life mysteries why people choose to do things that isn't considered normal is most people's eyes, it is just that most people these days don't give a monkey about what homosexuals do or choose to do. If homosexuality were so natural, why the heck do they need pride marches? After all, they are not the only one that are persecuted

Are you suggesting that because gays can't choose it comes to them 'naturally' that we should do away with all sex crimes?

I really do not understand this statement.


Homosexuality is pretty natural. It occurs in the animal kingdom as well.

 

[Niamh]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

So you say that they don't rape people? Are you denying they rape people? Or are you one of these people who stigmatise people for complaining about male rape? Have you also heard of Denis Neilsen and Jeffery Dalhmers? They had consensual sex with men, did they not murder them?

are you actually serious? Straight men can be rapists as I'm sure gay men can be. Are you suggesting that all gay men are rapists? cos if you're not, what is the point you're trying to make here?

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

are you actually serious? Straight men can be rapists as I'm sure gay men can be. Are you suggesting that all gay men are rapists? cos if you're not, what is the point you're trying to make here?

Then why did you say they do no harm to no one?

 

[Niamh]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Then why did you say they do no harm to no one?

I said that gay people being with other gay people ie. two consenting adults is there own business and I don't see why it should bother anyone, rapists either gay or straight are harming others so that is a problem. Do you have an issue with rapists in general or just gay rapists? Personally I would have a problem with both kinds.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

I said that gay people being with other gay people ie. two consenting adults is there own business and I don't see why it should bother anyone, rapists either gay or straight are harming others so that is a problem. Do you have an issue with rapists in general or just gay rapists? Personally I would have a problem with both kinds.

Its not what you said, you said being gay is uncomparable

 

[Niamh]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Its not what you said, you said being gay is uncomparable

well, yes it is, rape and paedophilia are illegal crimes, being Gay and being straight are neither illegal nor crimes, therefore incomparable.