Religion Debate Thread

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Religion has a countless number of flaws in it, why not preach against it? Why not save people's minds from the religious mindless bullshit? There have been so many threads on this forum that provide logical, objective support for why a god could not exist. We want to enlighten people, and if you've been taught anything about science or logic, or read any books about it, watched any videos on YouTube of it, you'd know exactly why so many people are atheist, why the population of atheism is rising, why modern scientists fail to believe in god.
Belief in god is positively correlated with dysfunction in societies in America. The more people believed in god in that society, the more dysfunctional it was.
Religion came about in a time before science and nature was understood - attributing everything to supernatural means was their way of explaining things. Don't you think it's a little outdated now? We have our ways of finding the truth, and it's the best you will know the truth, or closest to whatever it is. Do you really think you can just trust some belief system that claims it has answers to EVERYTHING? From THOUSANDS of years ago?
Furthermore, religion plays on people's fears of death. I don't know about you but would you rather someone lie to you to make you feel better or tell you truth for its own sake? I know many who would choose the truth. Religion just gives emotional solace, but it's not like people can't be happy with a scientific perspective of death either (like just returning to the ground like any other creature).
Religion is a closed world view because it does not change, it is not emergent with the emergent nature of the world, it is stagnant, and old. Science IS emergent, and has proper methods for finding the truth, not just basing it on faith.
Let me tell you that amongst the ways of finding knowledge, tenacity, authority, experience, faith etc are all unreliable. Why?
Tenacity - some information is repeated and repeated and repeated so somebody believes in it.
- so, is anyone going to question that information or just be naive and believe it because it was repeated?
Authority - believing something because an authority figure has endorsed it.
- what makes that figure of authority so right? Perhaps having a look at their credibility would be a start.
Experience - basing knowledge off of experience.
- no, this isn't subjective at all Ask ten people to describe the same situation and all their accounts will come out different. This provides no reliability and no consistency in finding the truth. I would why the Bible is questionable, hmm.
Faith - believing in something or claiming you know it because you just 'feel' it.
- there is no support for this 'knowledge' whatsoever, so the assertions it makes are weak.

Science's key elements though:
(1) objective measurements
(2) verification and confirmation of measurements made by others
(3) self-corrections or errors/faulty reasoning
(4) exercising control to rule out the influence from unwanted factors
(Davis and Smith, 2005)
These four things are just the tip of the iceberg and GUARANTEE that whatever cause-effect relationship a scientist is measuring is what they are measuring; free from bias, can be confirmed as truthful by others, and others will point out any errors or mistakes.
There is an incredible amount of reasons why science is much more trustworthy, if you really want to know why, I'll post it for you, it doesn't bother me. Science makes people smarter if you ask me.

 

[freakofnature]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Religion has a countless number of flaws in it, why not preach against it? Why not save people's minds from the religious mindless bullshit? There have been so many threads on this forum that provide logical, objective support for why a god could not exist. We want to enlighten people, and if you've been taught anything about science or logic, or read any books about it, watched any videos on YouTube of it, you'd know exactly why so many people are atheist, why the population of atheism is rising, why modern scientists fail to believe in god.
Belief in god is positively correlated with dysfunction in societies in America. The more people believed in god in that society, the more dysfunctional it was.
Religion came about in a time before science and nature was understood - attributing everything to supernatural means was their way of explaining things. Don't you think it's a little outdated now? We have our ways of finding the truth, and it's the best you will know the truth, or closest to whatever it is. Do you really think you can just trust some belief system that claims it has answers to EVERYTHING? From THOUSANDS of years ago?
Furthermore, religion plays on people's fears of death. I don't know about you but would you rather someone lie to you to make you feel better or tell you truth for its own sake? I know many who would choose the truth. Religion just gives emotional solace, but it's not like people can't be happy with a scientific perspective of death either (like just returning to the ground like any other creature).
Religion is a closed world view because it does not change, it is not emergent with the emergent nature of the world, it is stagnant, and old. Science IS emergent, and has proper methods for finding the truth, not just basing it on faith.
Let me tell you that amongst the ways of finding knowledge, tenacity, authority, experience, faith etc are all unreliable. Why?
Tenacity - some information is repeated and repeated and repeated so somebody believes in it.
- so, is anyone going to question that information or just be naive and believe it because it was repeated?
Authority - believing something because an authority figure has endorsed it.
- what makes that figure of authority so right? Perhaps having a look at their credibility would be a start.
Experience - basing knowledge off of experience.
- no, this isn't subjective at all Ask ten people to describe the same situation and all their accounts will come out different. This provides no reliability and no consistency in finding the truth. I would why the Bible is questionable, hmm.
Faith - believing in something or claiming you know it because you just 'feel' it.
- there is no support for this 'knowledge' whatsoever, so the assertions it makes are weak.

Science's key elements though:
(1) objective measurements
(2) verification and confirmation of measurements made by others
(3) self-corrections or errors/faulty reasoning
(4) exercising control to rule out the influence from unwanted factors
(Davis and Smith, 2005)
These four things are just the tip of the iceberg and GUARANTEE that whatever cause-effect relationship a scientist is measuring is what they are measuring; free from bias, can be confirmed as truthful by others, and others will point out any errors or mistakes.
There is an incredible amount of reasons why science is much more trustworthy, if you really want to know why, I'll post it for you, it doesn't bother me. Science makes people smarter if you ask me.

I agree with Natasha. There's a time and a place to argue all that. This thread is not that place.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Atheism has flaws in its preaching to religious people, they say that religion hates, yet that is exactly what atheism teaches

 

[Natasha]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

I didn't read your entire post, Kimmy...but how is you question her belief in God any different from Audra questioning your belief that Ed never thinks about another woman??? Remember your reaction to that??? People believe what they want to believe...it's not your place to try to change their mind about it unless it's someone you care about and it's something that's detrimental to their health. What skin is it off your nose if she believes in God???

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

I agree with Natasha. There's a time and a place to argue all that. This thread is not that place.

Umm isn't this the debate area?

 

[Natasha]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Umm isn't this the debate area?

Pretty sure she meant this as a religious inspirational type thread instead of a debate. Doesn't matter...I'm not telling her not to express her opinions or not to debate people who aren't debating...I'm just saying you people are way too negative. That shit will eat you alive. I'm glad I'm not like that...that's all I'm saying.

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Pretty sure she meant this as a religious inspirational type thread instead of a debate. Doesn't matter...I'm not telling her not to express her opinions or not to debate people who aren't debating...I'm just saying you people are way too negative. That shit will eat you alive. I'm glad I'm not like that...that's all I'm saying.

I don't see how not believing in a supernatural sky-father is being particularly "negative" other than in the literal sense of using a negative statement "I don't believe". An absence of belief is neither positive nor negative, it's just an empty space.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Atheism is a non-belief in a god, it isn't a belief system that condones any values such as hatred. Maybe the 'followers' give off the impression.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

If atheists were so much the caring type, perhaps they should respect other people's belief in a supreme being

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

If atheists were so much the caring type, perhaps they should respect other people's belief in a supreme being

Atheists would if these beliefs weren't negatively affecting the world so much.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Atheists would if these beliefs weren't negatively affecting the world so much.

Really? So every single wars and hatred is caused by religious people? If that was the case perhaps you should read Matthew 22:14 where it is quoted as saying "many call, but few are chosen" perhaps Christ is referring to people who spout religion, yet don't mean it. I can say for a few things about atheists, the Soviets were atheists, did they not invade other countries? Do atheists go around bombing gay bars?

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Really? So every single wars and hatred is caused by religious people? If that was the case perhaps you should read Matthew 22:14 where it is quoted as saying "many call, but few are chosen" perhaps Christ is referring to people who spout religion, yet don't mean it. I can say for a few things about atheists, the Soviets were atheists, did they not invade other countries? Do atheists go around bombing gay bars?

At what point did I mention wars and hatred?

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Also, there are a number of differences between questioning someone's beliefs and my personal situation about someone's belief on my significant other.
(1) While questioning someone's beliefs are dodgy, I have not questioned the original poster's beliefs, I only stated it might not be god doing his/her handywork. I'm not meaning to question her, but just offer an alternative explanation for the event, as all scientists try to avoid when conducting their own tests.
(2) Not only was that thing with Ed "thinking about other women" wrong, it was based on a stereotype of a typical man. Who is to say that a man cannot think of only one woman? Can only crazy men do that who are weird stalkers? I only think about Ed, who says he cannot only think of me? Who says other men cannot either? And what is this stereotype based on? Experience? See my long post for why experience is unreliable.
(3) Stereotypes are the brain's way of categorising people so it's easier to judge them. It's first year psychology. But it also is the perfect breeding ground for prejudice (acting on these stereotypes). What happened to me was uncalled for because:
(4) Different motives between questioning what my SO thinks about and somebody's belief in god when they asked for it by posting in the debate section. Can you guess the difference between the motives there?
(5) I've been on both sides of this - I was a believer, and now I am not.
But has anyone else been on MY side of the relationship to be able to perfectly know that Ed thinks about other women? No. Nobody would even know that he has told me numerous times that I am the only woman he thinks about And whenever I do say that, people put it down to these weak excuses that I'm apparently:
a - young
b - naive
c - stupid
d - immature
A.k.a - a whole heap of excuses based on little knowledge of me. I think when it comes to what I am and who I am, I will trust those who are close to me - emotionally and familially and in distance. People who have questioned my relationship have not experienced both sides of it, they plain and simply don't know anything!
But I've been on both sides of this religious/science thing, I know what it's like to sit and cry and cry and cry because the thought of no god scared the fuck out of me, but look at me now, I'm still in one piece.
Trust in something other than religion is possible, it's just about opening up a few windows and letting the fresh air in.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

Anyway, perhaps I will make a separate thread for me to rant about my scientific method.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

At what point did I mention wars and hatred?

OK, so you don't think atheists are negative? If they are not negative, then leave other people to believe in what they choose to believe in

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

OK, so you don't think atheists are negative? If they are not negative, then leave other people to believe in what they choose to believe in

No they're not negative. Just because someone doesn't believe in something, it doesn't make them negative. That rationale is just absurd.

As I said, given the problems these beliefs are causing around the world, it's important to try and get people to break free from the dogma.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

No they're not negative. Just because someone doesn't believe in something, it doesn't make them negative. That rationale is just absurd.

As I said, given the problems these beliefs are causing around the world, it's important to try and get people to break free from the dogma.

I don't believe it is something to do with dogma, it is something to do with the person. I can't see how being an atheist is going to stop all this, because we will still have the status quo regardless

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

I don't believe it is something to do with dogma, it is something to do with the person. I can't see how being an atheist is going to stop all this, because we will still have the status quo regardless

If everyone was atheistic, it simply gives us a clean slate to work from.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

If everyone was atheistic, it simply gives us a clean slate to work from.

There is nothing to work on if you don't believe in something that created us

 

[edgray]

Re: 2 hours IN shoveling - SNOW ANGEL CAME

There is nothing to work on if you don't believe in something that created us

Of course there is. There's building better, sustainable societies for one thing.