Protest Against Taxes!!!!!

[COOL_BREEZE2]

I have such a great cause! Look at how much support I've gotten for my protest. And it's funny to think I started it out with : Please don't turn this into a debate thread. We don't come t your hippie marches, please don't come to ours.

Gotta love it. he he he

 

[Carthage]

Gotta love it. he he he

 

[Pudding Time]

The minimum wage laws, child labor laws, can both be eliminated. They're terrible ideas.

And this is a perfect example of one of the many reasons why I am totally against Capitalism.

 

[Carthage]

And this is a perfect example of one of the many reasons why I am totally against Capitalism.

So you think that a man should be payed more then he earns, simply because a government official has deemed that he is in need of it? That a man who has no aspirations beyond a dishwasher should take 7.50$ an hour from the man who worked all his life to build the resteraunt chain?

And you think that a young child, who is fully capable of earning money, should be denied the opportunity to help himself and his family by earning his keep like any adult? That they are somehow less human and fit to earn their life then an adult who has the same education, maybe even less? That a young child should not be allowed to ring in money to help pay for his sick father's medical bills?

 

[Pudding Time]

So you think that a man should be payed more then he earns, simply because a government official has deemed that he is in need of it? That a man who has no aspirations beyond a dishwasher should take 7.50$ an hour from the man who worked all his life to build the resteraunt chain?

All this you have said here is moot. You speak of people working for money in a capitalist society giving to others as if it were a socialist society.

And you think that a young child, who is fully capable of earning money, should be denied the opportunity to help himself and his family by earning his keep like any adult? That they are somehow less human and fit to earn their life then an adult who has the same education, maybe even less? That a young child should not be allowed to ring in money to help pay for his sick father's medical bills?

Wow! You love assumptions don't you?

I believe damage done by letting children be exploited for cheap labor far outweighs the damage done by children not being able to support their parents.

 

[Carthage]

All this you have said here is moot. You speak of people working for money in a capitalist society giving to others as if it were a socialist society.

I said nothing about giving. I only spoke of earning; the dishwasher will earn what he deserves, and nothing more, nothing less.

Wow! You love assumptions don't you?

I believe damage done by letting children be exploited for cheap labor far outweighs the damage done by children not being able to support their parents.

I disagree; it won't be damage, and they won't be exploited. Capitalist's don't exploit people. Those who do, don't last long. They just pay a person what they earn. That isn't exploitation. And it won't be damage; if anything it will build character, teaching them how to live in a modern industrial society. Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has wanted to get a job since I was 9 years old, children in poor families (like the one I'm in) would benefit from working!

 

[Pudding Time]

I said nothing about giving. I only spoke of earning; the dishwasher will earn what he deserves, and nothing more, nothing less.

:smiley24:

"That a man who has no aspirations beyond a dishwasher should take 7.50$ an hour from the man who worked all his life to build the resteraunt chain?"

Giving, taking.. Different action, same result.

I'm not a fan of government. Anarchist if you will.

I disagree; it won't be damage, and they won't be exploited. Capitalist's don't exploit people. Those who do, don't last long. They just pay a person what they earn. That isn't exploitation. And it won't be damage; if anything it will build character, teaching them how to live in a modern industrial society. Speaking from the viewpoint of someone who has wanted to get a job since I was 9 years old, children in poor families (like the one I'm in) would benefit from working!

Capitalists don't exploit people? what THE fuck? I can't debate with you and your prepubescent logic, sorry.

 

[Carthage]

:smiley24:

"That a man who has no aspirations beyond a dishwasher should take 7.50$ an hour from the man who worked all his life to build the resteraunt chain?"

Giving, taking.. Different action, same result.

I'm not a fan of government. Anarchist if you will.






Capitalists don't exploit people? what THE fuck? I can't debate with you and your prepubescent logic, sorry.

It's not giving/tacking, it's earning/buying (labor).


Capitalists do not exploit people; at least, not real capitalists. The subjectivist, government entwined traitors to our noble ideology who masquerade under the title "Capitalists" are not. They are just businessmen, and cruel ones at that. They do not have morals, unlike real capitalists, who do. Read "John Galt's speech" in Atlas Shrugged.

 

[Pudding Time]

Carthage.. You are all books and theories right now... Come back to me when you have tasted the real world.

 

[Carthage]

Carthage.. You are all books and theories right now... Come back to me when you have tasted the real world.

I'll see you in hell!:waving:

jk) If I ever change my theories ( and remember, there are a lot of laissez-faire adults out there) I will certainly let you know.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Maybe I should have been a little bit more specific; a corporations highest goal should be it's rational selfishness. War profiteering, eliminating compensation, eliminating occupational health and safety, are all against a rational corporations self intrest.
It would make them look bad, lose workers and customers, and lead to it's collapse

The corporations will own most forms of mass media, therefore they can easily convince the public that OH&S and compensation is bad for both the corporation and the worker. Never underestimate the power of the media.

The minimum wage laws, child labor laws, can both be eliminated. They're terrible ideas.

Holy shit! You're fucking kidding right?

The corporation is the product of an individual's mind. The public should have no say in how it's run. If they don't like it, they don't have to be a part of it.

And then what?... starve? be unempolyed? There really is no other choice.

They can go to another corporation, or make their own.

Starting your own business, thats really easy isn't it? Small businesses would be fucked, due to the monopoly that larger corporations have on the market.

And how does repelling laws lose political freedom? Giving the economy freedom does not mean we have to take away political freedom; if anything, it means the ability to give more of it.

Like you said before, the government passing any laws regarding the economy is forbidden. So if the public had a problem about minimum wage laws or child labor nothing can be done about it. I call that losing political freedom, not gaining it.

Letting the buisnesses spread whatever political message they want and letting the consumer buy whatever political message he wants is more political freedom.

No it isn't... that is expolitaion. People should be free to make their own informed decision about political matters without any outside interfrence

Economic recessions won't be a problem in a place where the gov't has no hand in the economy. Even if there is a slight one, the people who had the intelligence to build businesses will have the intelligence to help stop it.

At the sign of any recession or projected loss in profits, corporations will slash its worker base which leads to more unempolyment, that eventually leads into a deeper recession.

 

[Meirionnydd]

So you think that a man should be payed more then he earns, simply because a government official has deemed that he is in need of it? That a man who has no aspirations beyond a dishwasher should take 7.50$ an hour from the man who worked all his life to build the resteraunt chain?

Alright, let me put it to you how it works in the real world.

There is a Kebab takeaway shop adjacent to where I worked. One of the people working there as a kitchenhand was a Turkish immigrant in his 30's, he was one of the nicest persons you would ever meet and worked over 38 hours a week. He was only paid $9.00 an hour. That was alot less than me and I was 16 at the time. This person came to Australia looking for a better life, instead he gets royally butt-fucked by an employer who thinks that he, noone else can tell him what his wages are worth. Do you think that his persons ONLY aspiration in life was to be a kitchenhand? Hell no. How can you expect someone to get skilled empolyment when they are earning that pathetic amount and have a family to support?

And you think that a young child, who is fully capable of earning money, should be denied the opportunity to help himself and his family by earning his keep like any adult?

...Parties recognize the right of the child to be protected from economic exploitation and from performing any work that is likely to be hazardous or to interfere with the child's education, or to be harmful to the child's health or physical, mental, spiritual, moral or social development.

That they are somehow less human and fit to earn their life then an adult who has the same education, maybe even less?

So you want to go back to the days of the industrial revolution, where children as young as 4 were forced to work on the assembly lines?

That a young child should not be allowed to ring in money to help pay for his sick father's medical bills?

And thats when Public Healthcare and Welfare comes in, at least in Democratically Socialist societies.

I disagree; it won't be damage, and they won't be exploited. Capitalist's don't exploit people.

Yeah, they do. At home and abroad.

 

[NicAuf]

Gotta love the slightly skewed views of a 14 year old.

Carthage it sounds like that your talking about an ideal model. Yes no taxes would be nice, however the gov't needs funding. Yes I know you said corporations would donate to the gov't, and I bet some would, but it wouldn't be out of the goodness of their heart. It would more than likely be out of the hope of gaining some favor with the gov't.

Also child labor laws should not exist? Yeah I would love to see my 4 year old cousin working in a factory. Just out of curiosity do you work? Just wondering, not trying to say anything, just wanted to know? Min. wage laws should not exist? Sorry but I don't want to get paid a measly amount of money when I get out of college.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Wow, just wow at this thread still going...and going...and going.

:24:

Bravo Carthage. :clap

 

[All Else Failed]

I promise you that Carthage won't think what he does now in 5-6 years time. I promise you.

 

[Keight]

What we need to get rid of is the INCOME tax--the most ridiculous manner of taxation ever thought up (must have been a drunk stupor)--and a PROGRESSIVE income tax is even worse. Carthage is right, he's just not getting the point accross. What we need is a national sales tax where purchases as opposssed to income are taxed--no penalty for success and much easier to collect--much less fraud--no need for a huge bureacracy to chase tax dodgers.

Ahaha!!! Mulder returns, knew you couldnt stay away

 

[Minor Axis]

Private corporations will run them. They'll be much better.

Who's going to pay the corporations? Are you by chance advocating Economic Fascism?

What we need to get rid of is the INCOME tax--the most ridiculous manner of taxation ever thought up (must have been a drunk stupor)--and a PROGRESSIVE income tax is even worse. Carthage is right, he's just not getting the point accross. What we need is a national sales tax where purchases as opposssed to income are taxed--no penalty for success and much easier to collect--much less fraud--no need for a huge bureacracy to chase tax dodgers.

I can agree to the concept of a flat tax or a sales tax after having a chance to digest the particulars.

 

[LiberalVichy]

Protest is useless. The government exists for robbery, and until the majority see it for what it is, the best you can do is avoid the jaws of the beast.

 

[COOL_BREEZE2]

Protest is useless. The government exists for robbery, and until the majority see it for what it is, the best you can do is avoid the jaws of the beast.

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

BTW, I've seen your posts. Very interesting. I think you're making a welcome addition to our debates. I look forward to seeing more of your participation. Cheers.

 

[LiberalVichy]

That's a bit extreme isn't it?

No, it's based on the unbroken observation of history and logic. The government is nothing but an agency which engages in robbery and murder, full of incompetents and crackpots whose vanity can't withstand things like productive work (especially as they're useless for anything but verbiage). The fact that this isn't obvious to most people, given the government is well known to take people's money without their consent and use it for things they disagree with, only underscores how dangerous these sociopaths and lunatics are and how well they know their job - government schools probably being the most important part of ensuring obediance on the part of a populace whom otherwise they would be incapable of subduing, since the productive portion represents the intellectually competent and socially functional portion of humanity.