Protest Against Taxes!!!!!

[COOL_BREEZE2]

No, it's based on the unbroken observation of history and logic. The government is nothing but an agency which engages in robbery and murder, full of incompetents and crackpots whose vanity can't withstand things like productive work (especially as they're useless for anything but verbiage). The fact that this isn't obvious to most people, given the government is well known to take people's money without their consent and use it for things they disagree with, only underscores how dangerous these sociopaths and lunatics are and how well they know their job - government schools probably being the most important part of ensuring obediance on the part of a populace whom otherwise they would be incapable of subduing, since the productive portion represents the intellectually competent and socially functional portion of humanity.

I'll have to disagree with you on the basis that I think your view on this is extreme.

 

[LiberalVichy]

I'll have to disagree with you on the basis that I think your view on this is extreme.

I'd quote Barry Goldwater, except I hate the man. More importantly, whether or not something is 'extreme' has no bearing on its truth. 2+2 = 4 is an extreme and uncompromising position which is invariably correct. Name me one government in the history of humankind which has not engaged, from all evidence of their actual activities (not what they SAY, what they DO), primarily in extortion for robbery and aggrandizement on the part of those in and associated with the government. In fact, most people admit this is the primary ingrediant of most foreign governments. But they've been carefully trained not to think this about their own government, they're saturated in its empty phrases and disgusting hypocrisy.

This I hate public school teachers more than the totalitarian boogeyman Hitler. They make Hitler possible.

 

[All Else Failed]

Yes, governments can be bad, so can society. Thats not going away no matter what. i guess you'd have to go live in some remote place then, eh?

 

[LiberalVichy]

Government IS bad. It's forcing people to do things they don't want to. Society is people acting voluntarily for their own or mutual benefit, and is 'good' insofar as you consider civilization and the absence of murder and robbery good. The two principles are exclusive. Government is incompatible with civil society and non-violent dispute resolution, since one cannot argue without accepting the principle of private property.

 

[All Else Failed]

Government IS bad. It's forcing people to do things they don't want to. Society is people acting voluntarily for their own or mutual benefit, and is 'good' insofar as you consider civilization and the absence of murder and robbery good. The two principles are exclusive. Government is incompatible with civil society and non-violent dispute resolution, since one cannot argue without accepting the principle of private property.

I don't consider government to be bad as long as the people have as much say as possible when it comes to policy making. I don't mind being taxed as long as my money goes towards valuable things. Trust me, I hate a lot of government myself, but I think it does do some valuable things. When it comes down to it, its PEOPLE, not government IMO.


How would a society function without some sort of laws, statutes, and systems?

 

[LiberalVichy]

There is no such thing as 'the people'. Only individuals ever have and ever will exist. Only individuals can benefit or suffer, only individuals have values.

Government, with its legislation, creates disorder - not law - by making legality arbitrary.

As I said, as property is the only rational basis for making arguments and thus law. Property and law are synonymous, and this (rather than the chaos of legislation) will allow determination of right and wrong in disputes.

 

[Carthage]

No, it's based on the unbroken observation of history and logic. The government is nothing but an agency which engages in robbery and murder, full of incompetents and crackpots whose vanity can't withstand things like productive work (especially as they're useless for anything but verbiage). The fact that this isn't obvious to most people, given the government is well known to take people's money without their consent and use it for things they disagree with, only underscores how dangerous these sociopaths and lunatics are and how well they know their job - government schools probably being the most important part of ensuring obediance on the part of a populace whom otherwise they would be incapable of subduing, since the productive portion represents the intellectually competent and socially functional portion of humanity.

I agree with most of what you said, but while there are nations out in the world with nothing but government, and who hate our model of (semi-)freedom, don't you think we should have an organization to control the use of force? As force is a tool of hate or vengeance or defense where logic won't work, I don't think it should be something that Private corporations should go around selling.

There is no such thing as 'the people'. Only individuals ever have and ever will exist. Only individuals can benefit or suffer, only individuals have values.

Government, with its legislation, creates disorder - not law - by making legality arbitrary.

As I said, as property is the only rational basis for making arguments and thus law. Property and law are synonymous, and this (rather than the chaos of legislation) will allow determination of right and wrong in disputes.

But if government institutes only objective law, won't it just maintain order between the individuals.
BTW, I like the whole "There is no such thing as 'the people'." Good for you.



But hey, as long as your pro-market, God Bless You! I'm fully behind you against the red tide!

 

[LiberalVichy]

But if government institutes only objective law, won't it just maintain order between the individuals.

Even if government didn't collect taxes (as the Objectivists tend to posit), it must still disallow competition of defensive services or cease to be a government.
If you're into Rand, you should read "The Market for Liberty" by the Tannehills. Not my cup of tea, exactly, but it's a reasonably good book. For that matter, just go to Stefan Molyneux' awesome website Freedomain Radio - Home
Lots of pdfs, audio books and forums there to answer many questions you might have about the possibility of market anarchism and the impossibility of a 'just' government.