Proof of God - for or against???

[FreightTrain]

I've seen you mention an appreciation of logic. With that in mind, is your bolded argument logical? Scientists (implying how many of them?) run around like prophets (in what way)?

When a legitimate scientist (more like team, association, community of scientists- which is key in itself) makes a prediction, it is based on a sturdy formula that has proven effective over time. It is tested, retested, criticized by others in the community, edited, and this process takes many years. Prophets have historically used mystical or unreliable methods of prediction, so in the most fundamental way, a legitimate scientist cannot emulate a prophet.

I would argue, that real scientists, not just those who support science half-heartedly as a means of knowing more than the religious, take pride in knowing their findings are fallible and falsifiable. Else why would they continue to research, and hold themselves up to scrutiny from peers? Pop science is overall not very respectable, but real science holds our best shot at knowing things about the universe.

The problem with your argument is that you use words like "real" and "legitimate" and "unreliable" which are all subjective. Real to whom? Unreliable by what terms? Legitimate by whose opinion?? Again, you are proving my well-thought-out theory that scientists have an aire of cockniess about them thinking they have all of the answers. Those who dwell in the spiritual realm ask questions and sometimes others think they are TELLING them the answers, but really they're ideas to ponder and questions to evaluate for yourself. You need to first understand spirituality before you can question it. I wouldn't tell you what greed is in Greek if I didn't ask someone first. I don't know what it is! AND, I'm not afraid to say that I don't. Science isn't allowed to and therein lies a serious flaw. Good day!

 

[Panacea]

The problem with your argument is that you use words like "real" and "legitimate" and "unreliable" which are all subjective. Real to whom? Unreliable by what terms? Legitimate by whose opinion?? Again, you are proving my well-thought-out theory that scientists have an aire of cockniess about them thinking they have all of the answers. Those who dwell in the spiritual realm ask questions and sometimes others think they are TELLING them the answers, but really they're ideas to ponder and questions to evaluate for yourself. You need to first understand spirituality before you can question it. I wouldn't tell you what greed is in Greek if I didn't ask someone first. I don't know what it is! AND, I'm not afraid to say that I don't. Science isn't allowed to and therein lies a serious flaw. Good day!

Real, legitimate, and reliable by the standards of the scientific method. It isn't at all subjective; there is a an objective formula that has, over time, repeatedly proven its fitness. The results, of course, may have subjective implications.

Science is questioning and predicting and revising those predictions with more questions- that's all it is by objective definition, and therefore your theory, however well thought out, is wrong.

I can easily see how one would see said flaw in the scientific method if one didn't understand what it was. I made the mistake of assuming you did! :surrender

 

[Tim]

Like I've said (just haven't written until now). Those who say "you just don't get it" are often in front of a mirror.

If you honestly think that scientists are cocky and think they have all the answers, you truly don't understand what science is.

I think you confuse science and religion where in actuality there is only a very small area where they overlap. Questions like...
1. why does it rain?
2. why do volcano's erupt molten rock?
3. why doesn't the sun burn out?
4. what is DNA and how does it affect us?
5. what is the chemical composition of water?
6. what are the basic elements and what are their properties?
7. why do the planets orbit the sun?
8. what is a star composed of?
9. what does our liver do?

and the list is endless. Religion or spirituality do not address these questions nor will they ever give us answers to them. There is no conflict between religion and science to the vast majority of natural science questions we encounter.
So I fail to see how being a scientist equates to being cocky in any way shape or form. Please enlighten me

 

[FreightTrain]

Bullshit. Again, misinformation is abound! Why are we aligning religion with spirituality? I delibrately put the word "spirituality" when I mean spirituality. I write "religion" when I mean religion. Why so many think they're synonmous is a major oversight by masses. I don't consider the masses to be all that intelligent. In fact, SCIENCE has proven my belief of the dumbing down of mankind over the years. The average IQ has "dropped" in recent times. It is no longer 100, which means "scientifically" and literally the average level of intelligence has decreased over time.
If you want to continue to have a logical debate, please use the word "religion" correctly and separate it from spirituality. Otherwise, we may as well be communicating in different languages. People do all kinds of things religiously. Rarely, does it involve any form of belief in a god, afterlife, or anything pertaining to spirituality. People take drugs, religiously. People post on this very, fucking site, religiously. People masturbate, religiously. If you don't follow my train of thought, look up the word, religion in a Webster's dictionary as opposed to anywhere on the MISinformation superhighway.

P.S. It's frustrating attempting a logical debate with those who don't do their homework. Please be prepared before responding. Just as I have prepared. You owe that to everyone reading. You owe it to your own credibility. Thank you.

 

[Panacea]

Where did Tim confuse religion and spirituality? I saw him separate them, which indicates he knows they are two separate concepts.

Just to clarify: to say something like "Jack masturbates religiously" uses the word religiously as a colloquialism, not the correct definition of religion as it is commonly defined. Just a common perversion of the word, no pun intended

 

[FreightTrain]

Where did Tim confuse religion and spirituality? I saw him separate them, which indicates he knows they are two separate concepts.

Just to clarify: to say something like "Jack masturbates religiously" uses the word religiously as a colloquialism, not the correct definition of religion as it is commonly defined. Just a common perversion of the word, no pun intended

You don't own a Webster's dictionary?

 

[Tim]

I'm still waiting for you to make your point. There will be no logical debate until you can articulate your starting point.

I included spirituality after religion for the simple fact that many will denounce religion and claim to be spiritual in these discussions. I was only covering both options, it wasn't only directed to you but to all that are reading this discussion.
I am fully aware of what religion is and how it differs from spirituality.
Religiously masturbating does not make it a religion. Sorry if you feel that we need to get into the finer points of the definition of religion. But the discussion so far has defined the use of the word religion to the context of God (see title of thread)

I'm not sure why you bring up IQ and what the average IQ levels have historically been. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand unless you are insinuating that as we stray from religion and embrace science as a society it makes us less intelligent. :dunno

 

[Tim]

And you still haven't addressed my post at all. You went off onto a tangent and completely ignored my question.
Would you like to address it?

 

[FreightTrain]

religion (rɪˈlɪdʒən)
something of overwhelming importance to a person: football is his religion

 

[FreightTrain]

I'm still waiting for you to make your point. There will be no logical debate until you can articulate your starting point.

I included spirituality after religion for the simple fact that many will denounce religion and claim to be spiritual in these discussions. I was only covering both options, it wasn't only directed to you but to all that are reading this discussion.
I am fully aware of what religion is and how it differs from spirituality.
Religiously masturbating does not make it a religion. Sorry if you feel that we need to get into the finer points of the definition of religion. But the discussion so far has defined the use of the word religion to the context of God (see title of thread)

I'm not sure why you bring up IQ and what the average IQ levels have historically been. It has nothing to do with the subject at hand unless you are insinuating that as we stray from religion and embrace science as a society it makes us less intelligent. :dunno

Apparently, you misunderstood my entire post. You may need to reread it later and tell me what you think. It's the one that starts 'Bullshit.' What are you waiting for me to articulate? I thought my points were pretty clear involving science, spirituality, facts, word usage, and IQ levels. Please explain.

 

[Tim]

Definition of RELIGION (Merriam-Webster)


1
a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion>
b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural
(2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance

2
: a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices

3
archaic : scrupulous conformity : conscientiousness

4
: a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

— re·li·gion·less adjective


Examples of RELIGION

1. Many people turn to religion for comfort in a time of crisis.
2. There are many religions, such as Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Islam, and Judaism.
3. Shinto is a religion that is unique to Japan.
4. Hockey is a religion in Canada.
5. Politics are a religion to him.
6. Where I live, high school football is religion.
7. Food is religion in this house.

 

[FreightTrain]

Thank you. You're catching my drift.

 

[Panacea]

You don't own a Webster's dictionary?

I own a Webster's dictionary, as well as a computer and a smart phone with the capability to check dictionary websites, and a couple hand dictionaries from other companies, a French to English dictionary and a Spanish to English pocket dictionary, and about seven graduate level textbooks on social systems of religion.

I am acquainted with the many definitions of the word "religion", as well as those which are colloquial and those which are commonly accepted as the most appropriate.

Religion, as it is commonly defined, involves a) social systems (football has, masturbation doesn't) b) texts or symbols (football does I suppose) c) questions or ideologies about the origin/meaning of life. (Football does not).

To say football is religion is to use a hyperbolic goofy colloquialism.

 

[Panacea]

And, again, you haven't pointed out where Tim confused religion with spirituality, you only dug deeper into a spiral of hysterics...can you point out where he made the terms synonymous, which led to the hysterics before this set?

 

[FreightTrain]

I own a Webster's dictionary, as well as a computer and a smart phone with the capability to check dictionary websites, and a couple hand dictionaries from other companies, a French to English dictionary and a Spanish to English pocket dictionary, and about seven graduate level textbooks on social systems of religion.

I am acquainted with the many definitions of the word "religion", as well as those which are colloquial and those which are commonly accepted as the most appropriate.

Religion, as it is commonly defined, involves a) social systems (football has, masturbation doesn't) b) texts or symbols (football does I suppose) c) questions or ideologies about the origin/meaning of life. (Football does not).

To say football is religion is to use a hyperbolic goofy colloquialism.

No, there's nothing goofy about it. To use football as a religion is an accuarate fit for the defintion, ANYTHING put into regular practice can be considered religion. For Christ's sakes! (yes, it's a pun) It's not only about God or things pertaining to the church! I eat religiously. I bathe religiously. Do I do them socially?? Well, I can't remember the last time there was a large audience the last time I bathed. If there was, I'm moving.

The only thing obvious thus far is that atheists have such hatred for all things religious that the word "religion" makes their skin crawl. If only they knew what the word meant!!!!!

 

[Tim]

Thank you. You're catching my drift.

Yet this entire thread has dealt with religion in the context of God and the religious. The word may have several meanings, but not in the context of this topic.

You can't be in a fishing thread talking about large mouth bass and tell me that you've been using the word bass in the context of a musical instrument.

Now, back to the topic at hand...
Where do you see a problem with science?
Why do you believe their is a conflict between science and religion?
Why do you believe their is a conflict between science and spirituality?

 

[Panacea]

ANYTHING put into regular practice can be considered religion

I disagree.

 

[Panacea]

aetheists

Do you own a Webster's dictionary? It helps for spelling, too.

 

[FreightTrain]

Fine, go delve into your SMARTphone then because it's a known medium of reliablity as are all cellphones and things that use batteries and electronics.:sarcasm
I'll continue to speak to the living. I find them much more interesting and intelligent than pieces of wire and plastic.

 

[Tim]

Speaking of the living... are you going to answer my questions?