Proof of God - for or against???

[Tim]

The best a Christian can do is offer an alternative to an atheistic view.

Why? Why must you try to convince anyone of anything?

If there really was a god, don't you think he would make himself known to everyone?

 

[Panacea]

Why? Why must you try to convince anyone of anything?

If there really was a god, don't you think he would make himself known to everyone?

I do find it rather interesting "god" is not one of the things humans were born with in their mind (like must find eats, must breathe), it it's so important (hell or heaven), but I suppose the argument is that it's one of our tests to see if we are worthy enough for god or smart enough idk.

 

[Diggin Deep]

Why? Why must you try to convince anyone of anything?

Tim - I'm not trying to convince you of anything - just offering another side of the coin. Since we are discussing religion on a debate thread where many different ideas and beliefs are thrown around, the best a Christian can do is offer their side of the story- their belief. Christians are called to offer answers to questions regarding their belief. Though the questions may not always be asked to me directly, they are asked or comments are made regarding my belief.

In OTz's Philsophy & Debate thread, the views have pretty much been one sided - until the past few months. People have a right to ask questions, give answers, even publicly try to humiliate one for what their belief is with insults.

If the God I believe in is real, then I would be doing both Him and my belief an injustice if I didn't at least try to answer questions, offer an alternative and stand up for Him.

If there really was a god, don't you think he would make himself known to everyone?

In my opinion, God has shown himself to me. Through everything I see around me in this world, both good and bad, through the universe, testimonies of what He has done in other people's lives, through the miracle of the human body and birth of my children.

 

[FreightTrain]

I don't take part in flame wars. And I rarely jump on only one side of a debate topic. Both sides can and often do have merit. I only questioned if all atheists were cocky and stubborn. In fact, I posed the question as a hypothetical. The fact that some proclaimed atheists were upset by my question really only goes to prove my theory not debunk it. I don't believe things have to be all one way or another. I generally believe in shades of gray. Actually, I prefer the shades of gray on many topics. It shows we don't necessarily agree or even know the answer to a given topic. Religion will be debated for generations upon generations. As will spirituality and life after death, Heaven and Hell, etc. It really can't be proven until death or some unexplainable event convinces the masses. If this event does occur I would put my betting dollar on atheists STILL being atheists! Again, just friendly observations from your average schmo.

 

[Panacea]

I don't take part in flame wars.

Methinks you lie: edit: "added a jab (maybe below the belt)".

 

[FreightTrain]

If a jab below the belt is considered the start of a flame war, then I guess I need to update my Urban Dictionary.

 

[Tim]

I only questioned if all atheists were cocky and stubborn. In fact, I posed the question as a hypothetical. The fact that some proclaimed atheists were upset by my question really only goes to prove my theory not debunk it.... It really can't be proven until death or some unexplainable event convinces the masses.

If not believing in a divine being is cocky, then you also need to put everyone you know into that same category. Let me explain that last statement.
I'm atheist, and this makes you think I'm cocky for not believing in god.
Now you can apply this same logic to a Christian. He does not believe in Zeus or Allah, so he must be cocky.
Take anyone from any background and unless the believe in ALL gods, they must also be cocky according to you.
You look at this through very narrow vision. You are basically saying that if someone doesn't believe as you do, they are arrogant and cocky.

Why is it any more or less wrong for me not to believe in god or any of the other thousands of deities throughout the centuries?
I don't believe in any of them, that's why I am an atheist.
You don't believe in most of them, yet you consider yourself "enlightened"?
Why are your lack of beliefs any different from mine?

 

[itsmeJonB]

How dare I stand behind my "faith" and not let anyone persuade my belief!
Just like I cannot convince a Christian theres no God, does that make them stubborn and cocky?

Your narrow mindedness is showing

 

[Panacea]

One thing I have never quite understood, and I hope someone can offer insight, is when a theist bashes an atheist's character (cocky, etc) , and the atheist says anything at all in response (I admitted some might be, I don't even get upset when someone says things about me on the basis of my atheism), said theist responds with something like "proclaimed atheists getting upset"...something to insinuate the person is lying about being an atheist...why is that?

Is there just no other world view for some of you other than to assume atheists are just theists gone bad?

 

[Diggin Deep]

How dare I stand behind my "faith" and not let anyone persuade my belief!
Just like I cannot convince a Christian theres no God, does that make them stubborn and cocky?

Your narrow mindedness is showing

One thing I have never quite understood, and I hope someone can offer insight, is when a theist bashes an atheist's character (cocky, etc) , and the atheist says anything at all in response (I admitted some might be, I don't even get upset when someone says things about me on the basis of my atheism), said theist responds with something like "proclaimed atheists getting upset"...something to insinuate the person is lying about being an atheist...why is that?

Is there just no other world view for some of you other than to assume atheists are just theists gone bad?

Are these comments directed towards me? If so...

 

[Tim]

One thing I have never quite understood, and I hope someone can offer insight, is when a theist bashes an atheist's character (cocky, etc) , and the atheist says anything at all in response (I admitted some might be, I don't even get upset when someone says things about me on the basis of my atheism), said theist responds with something like "proclaimed atheists getting upset"...something to insinuate the person is lying about being an atheist...why is that?

Is there just no other world view for some of you other than to assume atheists are just theists gone bad?

I was wondering the same thing...

I also find it funny that most theists believe that being atheist = belief.
Why do I need to believe anything? If I don't believe in god, why do they think my belief automatically shifts to something else like science?
How I feel about science has nothing to do with my lack of belief in religion/god. The two are completely unrelated.
I have no beliefs/faiths when it comes to religion/god... that's what makes me an atheist

 

[itsmeJonB]

Are these comments directed towards me? If so...

not at all

 

[Pet Sounds]

Atheism is a belief. An opinion. You are either of the opinion there is a God, there is no God, or abstain from taking a position. Like a vote, you can vote yes, no, or abstain. The first makes you a theist, the second an atheist, the third an agnostic.

 

[Tim]

Atheism is a belief. An opinion. You are either of the opinion there is a God, there is no God, or abstain from taking a position. Like a vote, you can vote yes, no, or abstain. The first makes you a theist, the second an atheist, the third an agnostic.

No it is not a belief. You just don't understand, do you.

You either you can believe their is a god, or you can abstain from that belief. I do not believe there is no god, I just don't share your belief.

 

[FreightTrain]

How dare I stand behind my "faith" and not let anyone persuade my belief!
Just like I cannot convince a Christian theres no God, does that make them stubborn and cocky?

Your narrow mindedness is showing

I laugh at that. The only thing showing is the atheists' lack of logic...and it keeps growing with every post.:thumbup

 

[itsmeJonB]

I laugh at that. The only thing showing is the atheists' lack of logic...and it keeps growing with every post.:thumbup

and you dont see the irony in your statements?

 

[FreightTrain]

Atheism is a belief. An opinion. You are either of the opinion there is a God, there is no God, or abstain from taking a position. Like a vote, you can vote yes, no, or abstain. The first makes you a theist, the second an atheist, the third an agnostic.

Thank you. Someone who understands logical debate. Very clearly defined. :thumbup
I tend to debate with those who know how to. I ignore the "my Dad can beat up your Dad" type of debaters.

 

[Panacea]

Are these comments directed towards me? If so...

Nope, I'm just referring to heated debates I've had in the past, none with you.

 

[Tim]

Read this article http://www.alternet.org/belief/148555/is_atheism_a_belief

It sums it up very well.

 

[FreightTrain]

I don't read propaganda. I'll pass.