physical proof that god doesn't exsist.

[lonemeditater]

Or that neither exist. Anyone who frames God as "if he exists" is in the questioning, hopefully open-minded mode. Blaming "bad things" on God sometimes comes up when religious people get it in their heads that God is supposed to protect the believers physically while living their lives on Earth. That concept is clearly disproven daily and results in some level of disappointment. I prefer to think that "God, if he exists" does not micro manage our lives.

My view is that both God and Satin have been defined, if not created by organized religion. They are not exclusive or inclusive of one another. You can consider God, Satan, both or neither. One could exist without the other. I do see the logic that if the Church got it right about God, they could also be right about Satan. But that is a mighty big IF.

I assume you believe so how would you define Satan?

You assume correctly, but I don't understand the question. Isn't it a Bible thing?

EDIT: heh, I'm late

 

[Minor Axis]

You assume correctly, but I don't understand the question. Isn't it a Bible thing?

EDIT: heh, I'm late

Who or what is Satan- is he a horned devil who tempts us to be bad, or is he part of each and every one of us when we are tempted to and do the wrong things? If you believe the latter, the former seems cartoonishly simplistic. Instead of preaching about an external force that tempts us, the church should be discussing personal responsibility for the bad choices we make in life. I don't know, maybe they do that somewhere.

 

[Codrus]

Who or what is Satan- is he a horned devil who tempts us to be bad, or is he part of each and every one of us when we are tempted to and do the wrong things? If you believe the latter, the former seems cartoonishly simplistic. Instead of preaching about an external force that tempts us, the church should be discussing personal responsibility for the bad choices we make in life. I don't know, maybe they do that somewhere.

either way he has legally changed his name to: Codrus :cool

 

[Jessica]

honestly that's one of the reasons I quit being a Christian. Another was we didn't go to church anymore and many more

 

[Tomperi]

Who or what is Satan- is he a horned devil who tempts us to be bad, or is he part of each and every one of us when we are tempted to and do the wrong things? If you believe the latter, the former seems cartoonishly simplistic. Instead of preaching about an external force that tempts us, the church should be discussing personal responsibility for the bad choices we make in life. I don't know, maybe they do that somewhere.

How do you Christians interpret bad things you do? Do you blame it on Satan?

 

[Codrus]

How do you Christians interpret bad things you do? Do you blame it on Satan?

alot of christians dont blame satan, they simply say "it must be gods will", which makes me wonder why they would follow/believe in a god who wants/allows/wills bad things to happen to the people he supposedly loves and are so devoted to him
:dunno

 

[Minor Axis]

alot of christians dont blame satan, they simply say "it must be gods will", which makes me wonder why they would follow/believe in a god who wants/allows/wills bad things to happen to the people he supposedly loves and are so devoted to him
:dunno

They are saying "It's God's plan and I have faith in God so I have faith in his plan although I don't understand it. I don't have the big picture." I'm just telling you the reason, not validating the truth of it.

 

[Tomperi]

They are saying "It's God's plan and I have faith in God so I have faith in his plan although I don't understand it. I don't have the big picture." I'm just telling you the reason, not validating the truth of it.

So if God has this almighty plan, what's the point of praying? Is God supposed to change his plan just for the one who prays?

 

[All Else Failed]

So if God has this almighty plan, what's the point of praying? Is God supposed to change his plan just for the one who prays?

That is actually a good point. If god has a plan and it is perfect, it doesn't change because something that is flawless and eternal can't possibly change because change means that something wasn't right from the beginning.

 

[Minor Axis]

That is actually a good point. If god has a plan and it is perfect, it doesn't change because something that is flawless and eternal can't possibly change because change means that something wasn't right from the beginning.

I'm not arguing for the truth of the traditional view of "God", just discussing a point...

A plan can be very specific or very general in terms and subject to alterations. And variations in the plan could still have the same final outcome, especially if you view the plan's primary goal as giving us opportunities to improve ourselves. Maybe God is into rewarding fealty with good deals. Praying is just hedging your bets.

 

[All Else Failed]

I'm not arguing for the truth of the traditional view of "God", just discussing a point...

A plan can be very specific or very general in terms and subject to alterations. And variations in the plan could still have the same final outcome, especially if you view the plan's primary goal as giving us opportunities to improve ourselves. Maybe God is into rewarding fealty with good deals. Praying is just hedging your bets.

God's plan HAS TO BE infinity specific, since he created all things and therefore has a plan for every single atom that exists, or it wouldn't exist.


anyways free will is impossible with an all knowing god so this argument is silly

 

[Minor Axis]

God's plan HAS TO BE infinity specific, since he created all things and therefore has a plan for every single atom that exists, or it wouldn't exist.


anyways free will is impossible with an all knowing god so this argument is silly

I prefer discussion. I believe this came from a "why pray?" question. I can see a reason why people of faith pray even if they have no clue to what they are praying. You are insisting that God, if he exists, and if he had a plan, it would be very specific down to the smallest particles. I ask why must that be so? I'd argue that the universe has very specific rules set up and you could insist those are God's rules and not be proven wrong. Those rules might be his option, but they exist, and it really makes no difference to us from a free will basis, unless he has exerted total control over us, but he does not, does he? I can walk into a store and buy something, or rob it. That is my choice and I'd call that free will. You are probably going to say, ok that proves there is no God. I say it does not.

You say there is no God, pulling the strings. I say I don't know what is pulling the strings but there are strings/rules in place that govern our space of existence regardless if this space was created by a god or not. And we do have the ability to make our own decisions and suffer the consequences, not to mention a high variable for having positive or negative random things happen to us, because neither one of us believes in the traditional God who controls every minute of our existence. I believe we are put into situations where sometimes we learn and gain wisdom from the experience. It does not matter if God is out there or not, does it?

Maybe you could better explain why God's existence would absolutely mean we have no free will in our lives? Even if you think the ultimate outcome is controlled by God, we still make choices during our lives and they do mean something.

To summarize:
*We exist. -agreed?
*There are set rules in the Universe.- agreed?
*The existence of the traditional God is unprovable.- agreed?
*We do have free will, but this does not discount the possibility of a traditional God. -disagree?

 

[anathelia]

I believe God exists in some form. Simply by definition of an eternal creator. I also believe we have free will, as I think I hinted at in my previous post.

Also, to comment on the prayer thing..I typically only pray for the strength to get through something hard in my life. And I can't speak for anyone else, but there have been moments in my life when I've been desperate enough to pray to God to ask for something. I think a lot of people have those moments. But I certainly don't blame God for the bad things that happen.

 

[Peter Parka]

Also, to comment on the prayer thing..I typically only pray for the strength to get through something hard in my life. And I can't speak for anyone else, but there have been moments in my life when I've been desperate enough to pray to God to ask for something.

That's kind of a selfish attitude. If I was god, I dont think I'd answer your prayers if you only prayed to ask for something when you are desperate and never even thank him for anything.

 

[anathelia]

That's kind of a selfish attitude. If I was god, I dont think I'd answer your prayers if you only prayed to ask for something when you are desperate and never even thank him for anything.

It's not selfish if I don't believe that god really intervenes. And I never said anything about not thanking him. I don't have to pray to talk to god. That's just the only time I formally pray.

 

[Minor Axis]

That's kind of a selfish attitude. If I was god, I dont think I'd answer your prayers if you only prayed to ask for something when you are desperate and never even thank him for anything.

You are using human standards to critique the mind of God. If he exists, who knows what his motivations are? Maybe he would be thrilled just to be acknowledged.

 

[Peter Parka]

Well he seems to enjoy watching good people suffer so who knows how his twisted mind works.

 

[lonemeditater]

Who or what is Satan- is he a horned devil who tempts us to be bad, or is he part of each and every one of us when we are tempted to and do the wrong things? If you believe the latter, the former seems cartoonishly simplistic. Instead of preaching about an external force that tempts us, the church should be discussing personal responsibility for the bad choices we make in life. I don't know, maybe they do that somewhere.

Satan is not a part of people. People aren't forced to do bad things, we're only have to endure bad things and temptation. Since the fall of Adam, Satan has been the ruler of this world >_>. We suffer because of Adam's mistake, but we're not forced to repeat it. We don't have to do bad things, it's just in our nature. =/

Edit: Bad things happen because man was weak and lost the earth to Satan.

 

[Tangerine]

Satan is not a part of people. People aren't forced to do bad things, we're only have to endure bad things and temptation. Since the fall of Adam, Satan has been the ruler of this world >_>. We suffer because of Adam's mistake, but we're not forced to repeat it. We don't have to do bad things, it's just in our nature. =/

Edit: Bad things happen because man was weak and lost the earth to Satan.

So Satan rules the Earth and God is powerless to stop it? I think I missed that in church.

 

[Codrus]

im gonna settle this right now

im...
YouTube - kooler than jesus

and im...

YouTube - Stormtroopers of Death - Bigger Than the Devil