Patriots In Exile Club

[Alien Allen]

Your view of justice is anti-American, anti-democratic, and anti-due process. I can only figure that you naively think you'd never be on the receiving end of maltreatment by authorities.

Never happened though. We are better than that. But the enemy has no problems with beheading and real torture.

Did we do this stuff to captured soldiers or US citizens?

 

[Minor Axis]

News Flash:

Chairman BOB (Barack Obama)

Signs international treaty, making the private re-loading of ammunition illegal. Interestingly enough, Supreme Court Justice Ginsberg rules that international treaty supercedes US law.

Well, folks, they have us surrounded...

My impression is that the rest of the world thinks the U.S. has a gun problem. There is truth to that as the U.S. is unique in the amount of gun related crime.

However, based on your comment, without any independent research on my part, I'd say as long as rifles and hand guns are legal, I disagree with criminalizing the re-loading of ammo. And it's a good example where I don't want international law interfering with an individual country's sovereignty. I'd like to hear Obama's rationale for signing it.

 

[Minor Axis]

Never happened though. We are better than that. But the enemy has no problems with beheading and real torture.

Did we do this stuff to captured soldiers or US citizens?

Who knows? A trend is a trend. Besides I believe there is more evidence that torture is not effective for obtaining accurate intelligence. Chaney can say all he wants that our interrogation methods prevented attacks but really there is no evidence of that. It's like working in the Safety Dept and saying our policies have prevented an accident. But what happens to that claim when 5 min later there is an accident?

Besides being of questionable effectiveness, interrogation (including torture) is just one small part of overall security. And there are reportedly better ways (like drugs) for messing with people's minds to get info.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

My impression is that the rest of the world thinks the U.S. has a gun problem. There is truth to that as the U.S. is unique in the amount of gun related crime.

However, based on your comment, without any independent research on my part, I'd say as long as rifles and hand guns are legal, I disagree with criminalizing the re-loading of ammo. And it's a good example where I don't want international law interfering with an individual country's sovereignty. I'd like to hear Obama's rationale for signing it.

I don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks. I'm tired of Apologists for America.

Here is a solid link about the treaty:

Obama Pushing Treaty To Ban Reloading

 

[Minor Axis]

I don't give a fuck what the rest of the world thinks. I'm tired of Apologists for America.
http://gunowners.org/a042109.htm

As America has never had a reason to apologize for anything? Thanks for the link.

 

[Alien Allen]

News Flash:

Chairman BOB (Barack Obama)

Signs international treaty, making the private re-loading of ammunition illegal. Interestingly enough, Supreme Court Justice Ginsberg rules that international treaty supercedes US law.

Well, folks, they have us surrounded...

I do not see where he signed it. Plus I believe as a treaty it would have to be ratified.

It is a foot in the door to making reloading illegal but that is a stretch to say that it would be. There would need to be legislation to make reloading illegal. You want to see the NRA become the most powerful lobby by far just attempt that one. Because if people can not reload their own ammo then it puts ammo control that much closer to being under total control by the govt.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

That;s my point, he's on board with it and that's really how things start.

He could be a real leader and tell Mexico "Fix your own corrupt political system or we ain't sending you no mo money"

But that wouldn't look good to the second coming of Christ

 

[Tim]

News Flash:

Chairman BOB (Barack Obama)

Signs international treaty, making the private re-loading of ammunition illegal. Interestingly enough, Supreme Court Justice Ginsberg rules that international treaty supercedes US law.

Well, folks, they have us surrounded...

You are disappointing me again Evan....

Once again you are taking crap from right wing sources and not even verifying its validity.

Here is the full copy of the treaty INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS

You can see that it has ZERO impact on those who wish to reload their ammunition. It only concerns you if you illegally traffic your reloaded ammunition to another country who participates in the treaty. So if you reload your own ammunition, this treaty doesn't concern you, but if you ship it down to the cartels without going through proper procedures, you will be held accountable under this treaty since Mexico signed the treaty on 11/14/1997 THE SAME DAY the United states signed it.

 

[Minor Axis]

You are disappointing me again Evan....

Once again you are taking crap from right wing sources and not even verifying its validity.

Here is the full copy of the treaty INTER-AMERICAN CONVENTION AGAINST THE ILLICIT MANUFACTURING OF AND TRAFFICKING IN FIREARMS, AMMUNITION, EXPLOSIVES, AND OTHER RELATED MATERIALS

You can see that it has ZERO impact on those who wish to reload their ammunition. It only concerns you if you illegally traffic your reloaded ammunition to another country who participates in the treaty. So if you reload your own ammunition, this treaty doesn't concern you, but if you ship it down to the cartels without going through proper procedures, you will be held accountable under this treaty since Mexico signed the treaty on 11/14/1997 THE SAME DAY the United states signed it.

Holy Moly, thanks Tim. Typical Right Wing Bull Shit as usual? I turned on my radio yesterday. Unfortunately one of the Rock stations I listen to (in Houston, Tx, The Arrow) have Right Wing Commentators in the morning. Before I got it switched I heard the bemoaning of not being able to reload ammo. Just how many conservatives out there, don't worry about letting truth get in the way of their smear campaigns? It's friggn unbelieveable.

 

[Tim]

The thing is, I got all my information from the source... I DID NOT get anything from biased sources...

 

[Alien Allen]

This particular treaty is a step though. And all it takes is one step at a time and before you know it eventually you have walked miles and miles. That would years down the road but it is a viable concern IMO

 

[Tim]

This particular treaty is a step though. And all it takes is one step at a time and before you know it eventually you have walked miles and miles. That would years down the road but it is a viable concern IMO

A step towards what?

It has EVERYTHING to do with trafficking of illegal guns and ammo and nothing to do with restrictions for the signatories.
This treaty doesn't say word one about how we deal with ammo or guns here in the states. What it does address is the illegal trafficking of them between those countries that signed the treaty...

Can't you see that their is a HUGE difference?

I can make my own alcohol, but I can't ship it overseas because of international treaties. But those treaties mean absolutely nothing to me since I don't deal in the illegal trafficking of alcohol... see the difference? One has no bearing on the other. The treaties involving the shipping of alcohol has no effect on my ability to make and drink it.

 

[Alien Allen]

Damn it Tim are you going to make me read that treaty so I can get the facts?

 

[Tim]

That's why I posted the link to the treaty itself, so you guys WOULD read it.

 

[Alien Allen]

Ok I read thru it. I never have reloaded my own ammo. Does that require a license? If not then I interpret it as it being a requirement of the treaty. If the intent of the treaty is to deal with illegal weapons and ammo then does it not make sense that clamping down on reloading would be required as reloaded ammo is not traceable? By default is it not forseeable the govt might want to ban reloading?

For the purposes of this Convention, the following definitions shall apply:
1. "Illicit manufacturing": the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials:

a. from components or parts illicitly trafficked; or
b. without a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place; or
c. without marking the firearms that require marking at the time of manufacturing.
​

 

[Tim]

I do reload and no, there is no license needed or any type of permit. Hell, you can pick up supplies at any gun shop.

The treaty does not address me and the loading of my rounds since I do not ship them internationally. Which by law I would have to go through proper channels and do the proper paperwork anyway. But it says nothing about what each country can do, but what they can't do between them. Again, this treaty does not affect anyone unless they import or export.

 

[Alien Allen]

I do reload and no, there is no license needed or any type of permit. Hell, you can pick up supplies at any gun shop.

The treaty does not address me and the loading of my rounds since I do not ship them internationally. Which by law I would have to go through proper channels and do the proper paperwork anyway. But it says nothing about what each country can do, but what they can't do between them. Again, this treaty does not affect anyone unless they import or export.

I would have to disagree. I do not see that treaty as all about the trafficking. I see it as more of a guideline of measures to prevent trafficking. Is there a specific clause where it speaks of weapons and ammo that remains in state? I did not see one. Which tells me there is a hole in this which gives the govt latitude to do as I suggested. Maybe Strauss will see this and provide an opinion one day.

 

[Tim]

I would like to see a lawyers take on it... I can't seem to be able to find any on the web... But I'll keep looking.

 

[Tim]

Here, look at this fact sheet on it.

Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of Firearms, Ammunition, and Explosives

 

[Tim]

And this link

The Inter-American Convention Against the Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, and Other Related Materials