Patriots In Exile Club

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

How big is the Pharmaceutical Lobby? Why is the U.S. government telling border States they can't buy their state medical program drugs in Canada? Why does a 1 night in a hospital to do a minor operation cost $16000? Having friends in high places seems good for industries and bad for regular people.

There are people in this forum who scream about universal health care, but people without insurance can go the the emergency room and be seen and someone is all ready paying for it. I tend to think it would be better to have a coherent system then what we have today.

Why does a car cost $30,000 or and airline ticket to Hawaii cost $1,000? I'll tell you--unions--the high wages and benefits extracted by unions are a signfiicant component of the cost of a car or an airline ticket. I find it absolutely hilarious that you--the man who wants every one to have the "good" life is griping about the cost of a stay in the hospital. How much does a nurse cost? How much should a doctor be compensated? What if the doctors had a union--would the unions be lobbying to lower the cost of the doctors and nurses salary so as to have more afforable healthcare? And what about all the people who are treated at the hospital that don't pay the bill (many people use hospitals as their primary care center).

We can cut the cost of healthcare by cutting the salaries of healthcare employees--we can also cut the cost of automobiles and airline tickets by cutting the cost of employee's salaries.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

**Warning STAND BACK Propaganda Zone***

Right out of the Conservative-Make-Excuses Playbook. I've heard this before, our medical expenses are high because other countries are not paying their fair share. How about they the other countries like Canada are doing a better job of shielding their citizens from bullshit than we are?

Can you read? Its not other countries, it other countries companies. As soon as a drug is released here, generic versions are sold in the rest of the world at a 10th the cost. Are you saying that doesn't happen?

Also, are you saying that Canada has a better healthcare system thant the US? Have you actually spoken with anyone from Canada? Ask how long it takes to get a routine procedure--you can get yours whenevery you want it--in Canada you have to wait months. And Canada's prescriptions are cheaper because the buy in large volume--its the same reason stuff is cheaper at Walmart--are you now advocating the system used by Walmart to keep prices lower?

Seriously, you liberals really have no fucking clue as to how an economic system works. You think that all we have to do is have the government regulate the prices and everyone is happy with their lower costs. Where in the fuck in the rest of the world can you point to an economy with prices set by the government that actually works?

 

[GoldDust Woman]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

so what is the solution??

national health care?

sounds good on paper but do we really want to turn over that big of an industry to the feds??

we are spending money unwisely

the first step in my administration would be to legalize pot and decriminalize drugs. Sell pot like booze is controlled. if somebody wants to grow their own so be it. but for the rest they would be buying a truly controlled substance that would generate taxes instead of draining the coffers and using up resources. the police could then spend their time fighting real crime.

I don't have a solution. I'm discussing this, in hopes of bouncing idea's around so that maybe we can find a solution.

I'm not advocating turning it over to the feds, I feel as though they need to keep their grubby hands out of the economy of our country - from taxes, to healthcare. They are there to govern, not take and spend our money.

I agree with the legalization of marijuana. A long time ago, I was in a debate about that very topic and voiced the same opinion then. What gripes my ass the most about the marijuana issue is that it's proven to be effective, medicinally. A cancer patient, for instance, can get a prescription for Marinol (THC based pills), to the tune of 400 bucks a prescription- before insurance pays. But! Don't smoke the shit, or you'll go to jail. So, in reality, it's all about the delivery of it. You can ingest pills, legally, but smoke it, and your ass is had.

I also agree with decriminalizing street drugs. If people want to junk up their bodies with street drugs, then go for it. It's their business, not mine. But again, there's too much money for the feds to make, by way of drug busts. Keep the drug addicts/dealers, out of prison, teach them skills and send them on their way. Our law enforcement agencies need to focus on violent crimes and leave the rest to work itself out.

Ugh, I'm tired.

RedRyder? Are my fingers bleeding enough to suit you today? :24:

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

Why does an airline ticket to Hawaii cost $1,000?

Let's take this example. You have a pilot a co-pilot and a few stewardesses for 300 people--you fly for 5 hours and it costs you $1,000.

Now let's take a medical procedure in a hospital--assuming it costs $16,000 as you claim (it doesn't), but you've got a doctor a nurse and anaestesiologits and all sorts of medical equipment. You've got to have the attention of these people for an hour or two, then you have to have stay in the hospital for 24 hours and be attended to by nurses. Start adding up all those salaries. Imagine if your flight to Hawaii required personal attention of a pilot and stewardess for an hour or two, then stewardesses later for maybe 8 people to a stewardess and you had to stay in the plane for 24 hours? How much would the ticket cost???

Minor, you don't give a flying fuck that it costs more for an airline ticket due to high union salaries, yet you gripe and moan about the cost of medical procedures that by their very nature are highly labor intensive.

Now if you want to compare medical costs to airline tickets, then compare the cost of having a vasectomy or a mole removed or some other simple procedure--most of those are going to cost the same as an airline ticket. People have to earn a living--the only way to reduce the cost significantly (because labor is the primary component) is to reduce the salaries or make more efficient use of the labor.

Finally, the answer to lower cost care are HMO insurance plans. Yet, every bitches and moans about how bad it is--well you can't have it both ways--you want cheap healthcare, you get HMO--you want good qaulity healthcare with the physician of your choice its going to be much more expensive.

Canada's system amounts to a large governmennt HMO. We can have that in the US as well, but why should we forced it on everyone? Why not let people choose the level of care they want?

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

Problem is Mulder that HMO's are also bloody expensive.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

Problem is Mulder that HMO's are also bloody expensive.

So is food and rent and automobiles. What's your point? I've been trying to drill into people's heads that a very large part of the cost of healthcare is the cost of labor (like most other businesses). A house is bloody expensive because it takes a lot of labor to build it.

And this brings us right back to GDW's issues--she think it grossly unfair that her brother should have a 1,000,000 cap on healthcare. However, the reason your premiums for an HMO are a lot more than what you utilize is because of the people who get very sick and need millions of dollars of care--there's the catch 22--you going to tell GDW's brother that he needs to just die when he reaches his limit or are you going to spread that cost among all the other peoply paying premiums? Are you willing to eliminate the caps on coverage and pay more what you pay now for premiums?

Look--I am not oppossed to reform--but there has already been signfiicant reform--the HMO system is a response to rising healthcare costs and its worked VERY WELL to keep costs down. The cost of an HMO plan is probably half the cost of a PPO plan.

Again--what's the answer--how do you reduce costs without reducing care or salaries???

 

[SgtSpike]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

I don't have a solution. I'm discussing this, in hopes of bouncing idea's around so that maybe we can find a solution.

I'm not advocating turning it over to the feds, I feel as though they need to keep their grubby hands out of the economy of our country - from taxes, to healthcare. They are there to govern, not take and spend our money.

I agree with the legalization of marijuana. A long time ago, I was in a debate about that very topic and voiced the same opinion then. What gripes my ass the most about the marijuana issue is that it's proven to be effective, medicinally. A cancer patient, for instance, can get a prescription for Marinol (THC based pills), to the tune of 400 bucks a prescription- before insurance pays. But! Don't smoke the shit, or you'll go to jail. So, in reality, it's all about the delivery of it. You can ingest pills, legally, but smoke it, and your ass is had.

I also agree with decriminalizing street drugs. If people want to junk up their bodies with street drugs, then go for it. It's their business, not mine. But again, there's too much money for the feds to make, by way of drug busts. Keep the drug addicts/dealers, out of prison, teach them skills and send them on their way. Our law enforcement agencies need to focus on violent crimes and leave the rest to work itself out.

Ugh, I'm tired.

RedRyder? Are my fingers bleeding enough to suit you today? :24:

The legalization of street drugs... you know, I almost agree with you about that, because I don't care either what people want to do to their bodies, but the problem is, most street drug use directly correlates to more crime to GET the street drugs. You can bet there's be a bunch more people getting high on meth if it was legal, and people do very strange and wrong things when they're on meth - including committing more crimes to get more meth.

Anyway, I think drugs that are addictive like marijuana should continue to be outlawed just because of the crime it can create as a byproduct. Some might argue that there would be less crime because the drugs would be much cheaper if they were legal, but I would argue back that there still would be crime from people who couldn't hold on to jobs because they were so addicted, and that more people would be getting addicted if it was legal. It could be a wash, but I would bet that crime would increase if it were legalized.

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

So is food and rent and automobiles. What's your point? I've been trying to drill into people's heads that a very large part of the cost of healthcare is the cost of labor (like most other businesses). A house is bloody expensive because it takes a lot of labor to build it.

And this brings us right back to GDW's issues--she think it grossly unfair that her brother should have a 1,000,000 cap on healthcare. However, the reason your premiums for an HMO are a lot more than what you utilize is because of the people who get very sick and need millions of dollars of care--there's the catch 22--you going to tell GDW's brother that he needs to just die when he reaches his limit or are you going to spread that cost among all the other peoply paying premiums? Are you willing to eliminate the caps on coverage and pay more what you pay now for premiums?

Look--I am not oppossed to reform--but there has already been signfiicant reform--the HMO system is a response to rising healthcare costs and its worked VERY WELL to keep costs down. The cost of an HMO plan is probably half the cost of a PPO plan.

Again--what's the answer--how do you reduce costs without reducing care or salaries???

nope

have not checked in a couple of years but when we changed over it was about 30% difference.

one component of health care that has gone out of sight is medicine. the medicine portion of the monthly premium is going up at far faster rate than the medical part. I smell a rat there. Those with insurance are being prescribed over priced designer drugs when the old ones worked fine most of the time. How much of a kick back are doctors getting for that.

another thing that contributes is the friggin regulations. They mandate removal of the propellents used in my wifes inhalant. That changed the cost over tenfold. They have to recertify it even though the new propellent is known and approved. Madness.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

nope

have not checked in a couple of years but when we changed over it was about 30% difference.

one component of health care that has gone out of sight is medicine. the medicine portion of the monthly premium is going up at far faster rate than the medical part. I smell a rat there. Those with insurance are being prescribed over priced designer drugs when the old ones worked fine most of the time. How much of a kick back are doctors getting for that.

another thing that contributes is the friggin regulations. They mandate removal of the propellents used in my wifes inhalant. That changed the cost over tenfold. They have to recertify it even though the new propellent is known and approved. Madness.

None of those problems are unique to healthcare--welcome to the world of reality. When you figure out how to take corruption, and stupidity, and pandering, and schmoozing, and favoritism, and laziness, and a host of other human shortcomings out of the healthcare industry, Mr. "why can't everything work perfectly", please let me know so I can make billions taking it out of every other industry.

 

[GoldDust Woman]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

And this brings us right back to GDW's issues--she think it grossly unfair that her brother should have a 1,000,000 cap on healthcare.

No! I don't think the cap is unfair. I feel as though a million dollar liifetime cap should last a fricken lifetime. If the meds he needs (and it IS about the meds) didn't cost 10 grand a pop, then his coverage would last him for the rest of his life.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

nope

have not checked in a couple of years but when we changed over it was about 30% difference.

It depends on the plans--we have a lot of different options here in California--a PPO plan can easily be twice the cost of an HMO plan depending on what you choose.

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

It depends on the plans--we have a lot of different options here in California--a PPO plan can easily be twice the cost of an HMO plan depending on what you choose.

sure if you are not comparing coverage that is close

PPO with no deductibles and low cost for office visits and medicine versus HMO with 1500/3000 deductible with $40 office visits and $40/$20 medicine there would be probably about double the cost. but if you had similar coverage it will be closer to 30% around here

 

[Fox Mulder]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

sure if you are not comparing coverage that is close

PPO with no deductibles and low cost for office visits and medicine versus HMO with 1500/3000 deductible with $40 office visits and $40/$20 medicine there would be probably about double the cost. but if you had similar coverage it will be closer to 30% around here

Well if its similar coverage, than its not an HMO compared to a PPO!

I can't tell you--all I know is we looked at all different plans--I'm not saying every PPO is twice an HMO--my point was that people want it all--they want cheap premiums and they want excellent care--the two are mutually fucking exclusive. We can't possibly provide unlimited coverage for say GDW's brother up to millions yet have premiums that cost $100 a month. Shit the fucking cable and internet bill is more than $100 a month for most people (if you have cable internet and just basic stations). Seriously, how fucking cheap do you think we can get these premiums?

I don't care what the fucking annointed one says, he's not bringing the cost of healthcare down much, if at all and he certainly won't bring it down if he goes to universal healthcare run by the government. Last I looked we are playing about $7,000 for medical insurance for a good HMO plan for employees on average and then the PPOs range from $10,00 to $12,000 but then you have to pay the difference--we provide the HMO for free. I'll never in a million years pay that much for healthcare unless I get a very serious illness like GDW's brother. But of course, we are all paying for the people who use a lot more care. I absolutely can't believe the US government can provide healthcare for all Americans cheaper than $7,000 a year per person. Right now, medicare and social security are like half the federal budget--if you add healthcare, its going to be a HUGE--ABSOLUTELY HUGE COST PER PERSON.

 

[dazner]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

I wanna join to lets argue..hehe.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

Newsflash:

You don't get the signature banner just by posting in here, you must ask for it, and I must put it in your sig.

Thanks

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

So far, the actual "approved" members are amongst the following:

Mulder
AlienAllen
Myself
dt3
HottyToddy


If you are not on the above list, contact myself or dt3 via P/M for the sig, and be prepared to be asked for conervative street cred.

lol

Anyone not on the above list will be regular members, not charter members. Charter members are amongst the group that initiated this group on the 5th

We run a tight ship here at the C.I.E.

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

Good morning fellow Exiled Conservatives :waving:

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

Good morning fellow Exiled Conservatives :waving:

:usa:Another day, another dollar to be taken away

 

[dt3]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

:usa:Another day, another dollar to be taken away

I meet Obama's criteria to be poor, so could you just send the dollar this way? Thanks.

 

[Alien Allen]

Re: The Conservatives In Exile Club

:usa:Another day, another dollar to be taken away

aint that the friggin truth

now ya just went and ruined my day