Obama:

[Alien Allen]

That's so simple it can't be true


Straight forward mathematics suck:thumbdown

yeah if I can figure it out it should be pretty simple.

and the guy debating claims he is an authority on economics who is known and respected in Europe. :eek

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

yeah if I can figure it out it should be pretty simple.

and the guy debating claims he is an authority on economics who is known and respected in Europe. :eek

A dyed in the wool contradiction

 

[Fox Mulder]

we were discussing this over at the other playground. PAQ tried to argue that tax increases do not result in consumers paying more. I gave the following example which he blew off.

Our state raised sales and use taxes from 4% to 6% a few years ago. he tried to say there was no loss of profit on the sale of an item if I sold the item at the same price after paying the extra 2%. We pay use tax due to the work we do. So I am paying the tax when I buy material. So if what used to cost $104 including taxes now costs $106 including taxes I gotta charge another $2 to the customer or I am losing profit compared to before.

Because he's a socialist Moore-on. Seriously, anyone who doesn't understand that additional taxes are passed on to the consumer is just plain ignorant. Here in California our gas costs a lot more than other states because we have higher taxes imposed on gas. Its why cigarettes cost so much (and alcohol)--both are heavily taxed. Seriously, you have to be brain dead to make the argument that we can raise taxes on businesses and that somehow the business will absorb that and make less money. What fucking economics theory does that fall under other than Obama theory? :confused

Tim--please--tell us what will prevent a business that has its taxes raised from passing that onto the consumer? I am asking serious question here.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Because he's a socialist Moore-on. Seriously, anyone who doesn't understand that additional taxes are passed on to the consumer is just plain ignorant. Here in California our gas costs a lot more than other states because we have higher taxes imposed on gas. Its why cigarettes cost so much (and alcohol)--both are heavily taxed. Seriously, you have to be brain dead to make the argument that we can raise taxes on businesses and that somehow the business will absorb that and make less money. What fucking economics theory does that fall under other than Obama theory? :confused

Tim--please--tell us what will prevent a business that has its taxes raised from passing that onto the consumer? I am asking serious question here.

I can tell you first hand, large corporations pass the fucking straight on to the end user

Seriously, nobody can expect for a company already paying a 40% flat tax to absorb anymore burden without it impacting the customer, I mean it's basically like the liberals are making it against the law to turn a profit

 

[dt3]

I can tell you first hand, large corporations pass the fucking straight on to the end user

Seriously, nobody can expect for a company already paying a 40% flat tax to absorb anymore burden without it impacting the customer, I mean it's basically like the liberals are making it against the law to turn a profit

One man's profit is another man's welfare check :dunno

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

One man's profit is another man's welfare check :dunno

Hey I say if folks want to get mad at Exxon, Shell or any other oil company, or for that matter Microsoft, or the rest of them.

I suggest the following:

1. Put the hash pipe down
2. Get out of your grandmothers basement
3. Invent a better software system
4. And/Or drill a fucking oil well and claim energy independence....I will help you refine what you discover:ninja (For a small fee of course)

Beyond that...SHADDUP

 

[Tim]

Tim--please--tell us what will prevent a business that has its taxes raised from passing that onto the consumer? I am asking serious question here.

First let me start off explaining my conversation with my employer.

You are 100% correct, you cannot buy a $275,000 CNC router and write off 100% of that item. For our industry/equipment it is 7 years worth of depreciation. That would equate to about $40,000/year in deductions. But on the other hand it is an expenditure that is really needed to continue to grow the company.


As far as the taxes being passed onto the consumer...

Yes, I would say that close to if not 100% of the tax increases for manufacturing companies are passed onto the customer. But that would only account for business taxes. Are you saying that the taxes being collected from the hedge fund manager is being passed onto the customer? What about the employees out there? Who are they passing their taxes onto?
How will actor and actresses pass on their taxes to the consumers?
How will people who won lotteries pass their taxes on?
How about the people making money playing the market?
The list is long when it comes to people who would pay a higher tax rate but have no one to pass it on. It's not the simple 1 in 1 out scenario you paint. Right?

 

[Tim]

If you can say that the taxes put on businesses will be filtered to the customer, then isn't also true that taxes on the middle class equates to lost sales for those businesses?


If I can add one more point to this tax discussion...

The welfare of this country is in all of our interests. If this country fails economically it will hurt us all.
And much like insurance premiums, the more you have to lose the more you have to pay to insure that it doesn't fail.
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet will lose much more than I can ever dream of if our nation fails, so it makes sense that they have a greater stake in our countries well being. And that means everything from a healthy economy so people can buy their products to a healthy population to a healthy infrastructure and everything in between.

I'm not looking to take their money, but everyone needs to pay into the system.

It's all a matter of perspective. You believe that the rich should not pay taxes so they can hire more people, and I believe that the working middle class should pay less in taxes and spend their money to grow the economy.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

If you can say that the taxes put on businesses will be filtered to the customer, then isn't also true that taxes on the middle class equates to lost sales for those businesses?


If I can add one more point to this tax discussion...

The welfare of this country is in all of our interests. If this country fails economically it will hurt us all.
And much like insurance premiums, the more you have to lose the more you have to pay to insure that it doesn't fail.
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet will lose much more than I can ever dream of if our nation fails, so it makes sense that they have a greater stake in our countries well being. And that means everything from a healthy economy so people can buy their products to a healthy population to a healthy infrastructure and everything in between.

I'm not looking to take their money, but everyone needs to pay into the system.

It's all a matter of perspective. You believe that the rich should not pay taxes so they can hire more people, and I believe that the working middle class should pay less in taxes and spend their money to grow the economy.

I don't think the rich think they should pay no taxes, just not be over taxed to compensate for a financial gap in the middle class.

I shouldn't be taxed MORE to help maintain status quo.

I say we should be on a sliding scale....Or flat taxed. Total hysterics when people say the "rich don't want to pay taxes"

I don't consider myself rich, I would say upper middle class, but I told you I pay over 30%

How fucking much more do I have to pay?

 

[Tim]

How fucking much more do I have to pay?

$1.89 for that fucking 1 liter Pepsi


And I agree with the sliding scale tax rate more than I do the flat tax rate... Hell, I would love to see most of the bullshit loop holes go away. That would help tremendously.

 

[Alien Allen]

national sales tax

everybody contributes

 

[Tim]

national sales tax

everybody contributes

I would actually like to look into that. I haven't read enough about the workings to give the thumbs up or down. Are there any good books on it that you can recommend?

 

[Alien Allen]

I would actually like to look into that. I haven't read enough about the workings to give the thumbs up or down. Are there any good books on it that you can recommend?

can't say I have read any books

never happen though. because it makes too much sense. and the lower middle class will scream.

think it heard of 17% being the anticipated rate.

 

[siasl]

don't worry Bob and I are friends.

He is a tortured and misguided soul though I tells ya.

how can anybody who has to reason with you be anything else? :24:

 

[Alien Allen]

how can anybody who has to reason with you be anything else? :24:

:clap

damn hippie

there is a reason when one is correct they are right :cool

 

[dt3]

I would actually like to look into that. I haven't read enough about the workings to give the thumbs up or down. Are there any good books on it that you can recommend?

Amazon.com: The FairTax Book: Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books Brilliant book

Then they wrote this one to address criticisms brought on by the first book, which I haven't read yet.

Amazon.com: FairTax: The Truth: Answering the Critics: Neal Boortz, John Linder: Books

 

[Minor Axis]

FOXNews.com

No surprise there... Just keep in mind one thing. All those pushing Obama as a Socialist/Marxist have one goal in mind, defeating him for the office of Presidency at ALL COSTS. The Republican Party and their surrogates will SAY ANYTHING to destroy Obama's character and cling to power. :yuk

 

[dt3]

No surprise there... Just keep in mind one thing. All those pushing Obama as a Socialist/Marxist have one goal in mind, defeating him for the office of Presidency at ALL COSTS. The Republican Party and their surrogates will SAY ANYTHING to destroy Obama's character and cling to power. :yuk

So you deny that he has several ties to socialists?

 

[Minor Axis]

So you deny that he has several ties to socialists?

And your conclusion, he's a socialist ready to tear down the standards of this country, except for one thing, the capitalists in charge have all ready done that (torn down the standards.)

Socialist is one of the many dirty words to be thrown at Obama. I can't confirm or deny what kind of relationships he has with anyone. McCain has relationships with the Keating 5 and the Savings and Loan meltdown, does that disqualify him? Is he a crook just like all other crooks he's associated with?

The greatest financial mess this country faces, a mess unsurpassed since the Great Depression was created by the hands of Capitalists. Are they now a dirty word too?

Obama appears to be a good guy, better than McCain when it comes to considering the majority of U.S. citizens' welfare and well being. But the McCainites will try to shred him to pieces before they'd ever admit that.

 

[dt3]

And your conclusion, he's a socialist ready to tear down the standards of this country, except for one thing, the capitalists in charge have all ready done that (torn down the standards.)

Socialist is one of the many dirty words to be thrown at Obama. I can't confirm or deny what kind of relationships he has with anyone. McCain has relationships with the Keating 5 and the Savings and Loan meltdown, does that disqualify him? Is he a crook just like all other crooks he's associated with?

The greatest financial mess this country faces, a mess unsurpassed since the Great Depression was created by the hands of Capitalists. Are they now a dirty word too?

Obama appears to be a good guy, better than McCain when it comes to considering the majority of U.S. citizens' welfare and well being. But the McCainites will try to shred him to pieces before they'd ever admit that.

I didn't say "he's a socialist ready to tear down the standards of this country", so don't put words in my mouth. I simply asked a yes or no question. Just the fact that you responded so vehemently tells me all I need to know.