Obama:

[Alien Allen]

this is one of the best posts I have seen to question the anointed rock star.

where did you get the figure though that 95% do not pay any taxes? never heard that one.

 

[dt3]

this is one of the best posts I have seen to question the anointed rock star.

where did you get the figure though that 95% do not pay any taxes? never heard that one.

He said less than 95% pay taxes As in the bottom 40% pays nothing, so only 60% pay taxes. How can you give tax cuts to 95% if only 60% pay anything? :dunno

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

He said less than 95% pay taxes As in the bottom 40% pays nothing, so only 60% pay taxes. How can you give tax cuts to 95% if only 60% pay anything? :dunno

It'll be easy.....95% of the American public will be paying nothing, and getting kickbacks from the rest of us.....Maybe that's why it doesn't make sense right now...He's forward looking.


I have a button that was sent to me by a friend that says

"You like my Obama Halloween mask?"

"Good now give me your candy to distribute"

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

You know damn well that the dems do not hold a majority right now... and the record number of filibusters shows that fact.

Where has anyone at any time talked about nationalizing corporations? And growing the government to twice it's size? Haven't the republicans already done that? And why are you throwing out unions? The government doesn't mandate them just as they don't forbid them... Are you suggesting that unions should be outlawed?

Damn, I take a week or so off and come back to republican rants... sheesh, all I wanted was a pepsi.

No I am suggesting that if they want to be an advocate of worker safety, that's great, but telling a company that a guy putting lug nuts on cars at the GM plant should make $40hr because he's a UAW brother is bullshit.

In this day and age, unions give people NO reason to improve, they just ask you to stick around.

20 years from now, that guy installing lug nuts.....will still be doing it....Or they will make him a supervisor.

 

[Alien Allen]

He said less than 95% pay taxes As in the bottom 40% pays nothing, so only 60% pay taxes. How can you give tax cuts to 95% if only 60% pay anything? :dunno

thanks. now I get it

has any reporter ever asked him that?

or it is gonna be like welfare where those who paid nothing still get it because the liberals would feel bad if those people were left out. :willy_nilly:

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

thanks. now I get it

has any reporter ever asked him that?

or it is gonna be like welfare where those who paid nothing still get it because the liberals would feel bad if those people were left out. :willy_nilly:

Here's what I have heard:

40% Pay nothing

50% account for approx 3% of the collected revenues

10% account for 70+% of collected revenues.


That is from the IRS

 

[siasl]

This is what I find fascinating, when a far left leaning liberal is accused of being a socialist, it doesn't seem to conjure up a negative connotation...But Marxist...No wai.... But look at how one was derived from another, and pay close attention to the first few paragraphs, particularly about class battle inciting Marxism/extreme socialism

i've seen this argument made before...one reason for the distinction maybe that most americans, imo, have only the soviet union as their model of a "marxist" government

but there's a couple of other points here that are equally fascinating, imo

this is the first time i can remember a presidential candidates's loyalty to the principles of the constitutiion being questioned

and let's not mince words....that exactly what's going on here
be he socialist or marxist, no matter -its just a qualitative change in the rhetoric, not a quantitative one...the message is that he a threat to captialism...to the principles of economic opprotunity and its corollary: the accumulation of wealth....he's also "muslim", has a religious mentor who "hates america", and has known ties to terrorists.

he's basically had the book thrown at him....and much of the book -all, in fact, but the taxation bit- has been written in the last eight years, imo.

he's been called everything but the N word....i find that fascinating....god forbid that his detractors be considered prejudiced against a group of people

:usa:

then there's this

Socialism refers to a broad set of economic theories of social organization.... All socialists advocate the creation of an egalitarian society, in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly...

that wiki entry needs to be edited for accuracy....under egalitarianism, the meaning is not so skewed

Egalitarianism (derived from the French word égal, meaning equal) is a political doctrine that holds that all people should be treated as equals and have the same political, economic, social, and civil rights.

in america, most social and civil right's legislation has been enacted to promote an egalitarian society, specifically wrt to economic rights...aka economic opporotunity.

i find that fascinating, too....both that it can be so easily ignored, and that egalitarian has been demoted to a less than favorable idea....a result of our increasing belief, i guess, that "the accumulation of wealth and power" is THE significant benefit of our constitution.

what in the fuck is everybody thinking? :eek

:usa:

is there anybody left who still believes that one of the primary purposes of the constitution was to create an egalitarian society?

is there anybody left who still believes that our founding fathers were NOT socialists?

well, yes, of course there are.....but they all seem to have fallen into the deep, dark, godless, amoral pit of liberalism, a hole so deep that they've all lost sight of the fact that in america, if you're greedy and unethical, with your nose to the grindstone of profit, you deserve welfare....but we call it "saving the economy".....

which is good for everybody....but gets better and better, the more you have to lose.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

He's had the book thrown at him?

By whom? CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC they have done everything but drop his pants and suck his dick.

And the racism thing....Get the fuck out of here with that. If you equate questioning someones economic beliefs, past connections with KNOWN anti-semetic or otherwise enemies of the state with racism then you have no business voting let alone debating.

That's the problem with this country, push a HALF....HALF African American (atcually half Nigerian) into the race for the White House, then throw out the race card everytime someone questions him.

Re-godamn-diculous.

 

[Alien Allen]

Siasl,

Still trying to justify socialism eh?

And denying Obama is one?

I assume you have heard his prior comments about the Constitution??

He is what he is. In words and actions. You can interpret it your way but it seems clear to me otherwise

 

[Alien Allen]

Actually BB he is an actual African American unlike most who claim that.

Seeing how Nigeria is in Africa

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Fact:

Obama is as far left as you can get, essentially a "Jimmy Carter" leftist, we all know how well that worked out.

Fact:

There have been repeated accusations and straight line links to him and several far leftist, anti-establishment and anti-semitic socialists.

Fact:

Even, and or re-distribution of anything is far left socialism/borderline marxism by definition, that has never been debated by anyone other than another socialist.

Fact:

40% of Americans don't pay taxes

Fact:

The top 10% of the country pay the highest percentage of tax revenues

Fact:

Individuals at a certain line, with no privately owned business, do not get special tax reliefs in the form of credits for losses in the markets (I should know I am amongst them)

Fact:

ACORN, an organization that Obama supported, resulted from several different panels he sat on associated with Ayers and several other far leftists is a fradulent enterprise, that to this moment is still being linked to fraud.

Fact:

Keating is one of McCains top advisors....RUN FOR THE HILLS!

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Actually BB he is an actual African American unlike most who claim that.

Seeing how Nigeria is in Africa

I said African American (Nigerian) giving credit for where his heritage actually is.

Interestingly enough, where he went to find a father who not only didn't care about him, or his mother, but came here to get a top education, then hurried back home to badmouth the US.

I am not sure I would claim the heritage of a man who abhorred the nation I called home, bailed on my mother and I at a very young age, and drank himself to death...

I mean they are personal choices.....But enough with the cry me a river bullshit.

 

[siasl]

Siasl,

Still trying to justify socialism eh?

And denying Obama is one?

I assume you have heard his prior comments about the Constitution??

nope, nope, and some of them....you got some you'd like me to see?
it's just a friggen ideal
he's just a friggen man
and i'll hold what you call my "justifications" up against the constitution any day

He is what he is. In words and actions. You can interpret it your way but it seems clear to me otherwise

ab-so-root-ry....i take little issue with any individual who opposes him...i find it fascinating, as well as disgusting and discouraging tho, the thinking of the organized opposition to his persona in this time and place.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

nope, nope, and some of them....you got some you'd like me to see?
it's just a friggen ideal
he's just a friggen man
and i'll hold what you call my "justifications" up against the constitution any day



ab-so-root-ry....i take little issue with any individual who opposes him...i find it fascinating, as well as disgusting and discouraging tho, the thinking of the organized opposition to his persona in this time and place.

Why is the opposition to himany different than it would have been to...Al Gore?

Obama is a far left leaning Democrat, that's what I base my decision off of.

I could care less if he's black, white, polka dotted, blind crippled or crazy.

He stands for everything I'm against...That simple.

That doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a conservative

 

[Tim]

I don't understand why he isn't up front w/ what he believes. He obviously feels the America is flawed at the core, but why won't he say so? It doesn't strike me as being fully honest.

He believes that? Really? Then why did he choose to run for president? To push his Marxist agenda on the US?

Damn that Constitution holding us back from real change. ... His entire life is a story that if any part is mentioned, is a personal attack. Not honorable. Bigoted, etc...

Let's see, his past is that of drug abuse, pulling out of that only to choose America haters as friends. Joining a church that would make any red blooded American's blood boil, pushing for school reforms that undermine our nation from the bottom up, a view that our Constitution is inherently flawed, a strong desire to redistribute wealth, dirty land deals, terrorists, and on and on and on...

I think you covered all the talking points... wait! you forgot that he's a terrorist muslim that went to a madrosa... Oh, that's right, you talked about his church affiliation problem. You can't mix the two being a bad Christian and a dirty muslim at the same time doesn't work.

A far left organization has termed him the most liberal man in the Senate, yet he tries to tell people he's a uniter and a centrist??

Since when do you listen to what the far left has to say? Since Bush has been a total disaster in the last 8 years, and since he is Republican, if you didn't vote his way, you are left. If you never agreed with his disastorous policies that would make you far left... Hmmmm, that's a pretty big chunk of the American people.

Why is his past so off limits? His character matters, and his record matters. Non-proliferation... LOL Yeah, name one person who's against that.

His past has never been off-limits... I know I want to learn everything I can about him...
What about McCains past? When was the last time that you heard the news talk about him dumping his fat crippled wife to marry his rich mistress? When was the last time you heard the news mention that his captors in Vietnam said he wasn't tortured and he made anti-American statements for them in return? When was the last time you heard the Keating 5 brought up? How about his connections to Gordon Liddy? Cindy's drug addiction? His connection to the Contra-funding US Council for World Freedom? Shall I go on? Because even though Obama's camp won't touch this crap it doesn't mean it didn't happen...

He tells America 95% of us are going to get a tax cut, but less than 95% of Americans even pay taxes to begin with. He plans on letting Bush's tax cuts expire, but won't call that a tax increase. His $3K incentive package for businesses to bring jobs back to America is like asking companies to only lose $27K a year instead of $30K a year in salary differentials.

He clearly states it's 95% of working families, not 95% of Americans.
So let me ask you something... Bush cuts the tax for the top 3% and our deficiet goes to 11 trillion, more jobs are lost and the economy is in the tank. So what exactly did those tax cuts do? Where is the wealth and prosperity that was promised? Why are we paying China BILLIONS in interest every year? Why is the value of the dollar in the gutter? The government needs revenue to work and that's a fact. The republicans run it into the ground and never worry about paying for anything. Hell, just put it on our credit card the next adminisration will pay for it.... Bush and his cronies have been more fiscally irrisponsible than ANY democratic adminisration. Kettle, meet pot.

Who here knows what percentage of taxes the top 2% pay in this country? Tim? How about the bottom 20%? How much do they pay? Tim? How high are corporate taxes in comparison to the rest of the world already? How much higher should they be? How does that make them keep jobs in the U.S.?

I know exactly who pays taxes and how much they pay... So by your logic, the college student working part time to pay for room and board should pay everything he makes in taxes so the bottom 20%'s piece of the tax pie matches the top 2%'s? Let me ask you a question... If every person in the bottom 20% paid 100% in taxes and the top 2% paid 1% in taxes, which group would be paying more in taxes per year? Well let me tell you... it would still be the top 2% paying the bigger lump in taxes... so is that still unfair? Should the top 2% pay 0%? What's fair? Because it's a strawman argument and you know it.

Why is Joe the Plumber public enemy #1? He didn't put words in Obama's mouth. He just asked a question.

Because he is a fake and the McCain camp knows it, yet they continue to put him out there... That is so funny

"Joe the plumber" is an absolute joke and a fraud. The McCain camp looked into the truth of his story as closely as Palin's before throwing him into the lime light. Hell, Joe even has his own campaign bus to travel around with McCain for this last week. Joe isn't a plumber, he makes $40k a year and is in NO WAY ready to buy a plumbing business, he is as fake as Palin is... and even though he has been shown to be a fake and he would benefit MORE from Obama's tax plan, they drag him around and bring up his name every chance they get. It's actually one of the most commical things I have ever seen a campagin do.

I view Obama's presidency run like the pitch for the bail out. Don't look at the past. Don't look at the record. Just buy into this, and get behind it. If you don't, the end is coming, or you're a racist. Either way, you're opinion no longer matters.

I don’t know much about Reid, but I know Pelosi, and I’m learning Obama. If they get Congress and the Whitehouse, we’re looking at the loss of freedom of speech through the fairness doctrine. Goodbye U.S.A. Hello E.U.2.

Kinda like the Bolshevik revolution in a way. … Only we’d be asking for it.

Who's keeping you from looking at his past? His past has been combed over with a fine tooth comb and every detail has been posted all over the net for all to read. Do you honestly think that the republican operatives who want to see him fall flat on his face haven't picked through his garbage, talked to school mates, read every paper he's ever written, got copies of his school transcripts, etc...? If there was a smoking gun out there, it would be all over the news. The reason that these bullshit conspiracy theories aren't in the media, is for the simple fact that they are bullshit stories and they would make the news agency look like idiots for covering it.

And PLEASE stop about the "Fairness Doctrine" OMG you guys are so pathetic when you throw out talking points that aren't even part of the topic at hand... It's like you reach into your bag of talking points and throw out the first thing you get when you don't have anything of substance to add to the conversation. Show me where Obama has talked about the fairness doctrine. Show me where the "fairness doctrine" would affect todays media. Do you even have the facts about it?
I guess it could have been worse... at least you didn't throw out "DEATH TAX" Damn those democrats and axing the dead...........

 

[Alien Allen]

Why is the opposition to himany different than it would have been to...Al Gore?

Obama is a far left leaning Democrat, that's what I base my decision off of.

I could care less if he's black, white, polka dotted, blind crippled or crazy.

He stands for everything I'm against...That simple.

That doesn't make me a racist, it makes me a conservative

:homo:

ab-so-root-ry....i take little issue with any individual who opposes him...i find it fascinating, as well as disgusting and discouraging tho, the thinking of the organized opposition to his persona in this time and place.

redistribution of wealth it seems to me is one of the cores of socialism. why is it it disgusting to call him out on it? :dunno

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I think it's frightening that nobody see's the media bias.

He hasn't answered to anything because nobody thinks he should, he's the heir appearent

 

[siasl]

Obama is as far left as you can get, essentially a "Jimmy Carter" leftist, we all know how well that worked out.

agreed, tho it's a mistake i think to compare the two as leaders...their beliefs may be very similar, but obama's got more muster, imo....we'll get a chance to find out, tho, it seems

There have been repeated accusations and straight line links to him and several far leftist, anti-establishment and anti-semitic socialists.

yeah...so?
this is frankly, the kind of "purity" thinking that scares the hell out of me....next we'll be calling him somekind of manchurian candidate...

Even, and or re-distribution of anything is far left socialism/borderline marxism by definition, that has never been debated by anyone other than another socialist.

never, huh?.....guess that's changed

40% of Americans don't pay taxes
The top 10% of the country pay the highest percentage of tax revenues
Individuals at a certain line, with no privately owned business, do not get special tax reliefs in the form of credits for losses in the markets (I should know I am amongst them)

indeed...facts....the last one don't seem exactly fair, do it?

ACORN, an organization that Obama supported, resulted from several different panels he sat on associated with Ayers and several other far leftists is a fradulent enterprise, that to this moment is still being linked to fraud.

fraud?....so far all they been linked to is a whole bunch of rules that they DO appear to be taking advantage of.....but legally....hardly unheard of in this country, or anywhere else.

Keating is one of McCains top advisors....RUN FOR THE HILLS!

aint' it funny how these players seem to so consistently rebound from their nefarious actions?
don't seem real egalitarian to me :ninja

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

And Tim.....Why is it, that when a Republican brings anything up about Obama, it's written off as "talking point"

Is that a code word for "Walk away now...do not answer"?

If McCain was reported as eating dinner with Timothy McVeigh and going to a coming out party at David Dukes house he political career would have been over in five seconds, as well it should.

It's just another example of the total bag job my the liberal leaning media.

 

[Tim]

You guys love throwing out the term "Redistribution of wealth" well all taxes are a redistribution of wealth. And taxes have been around for a long time in this country. So are you saying it's ok as long as you set the terms of who is contributing and at what percentage? Because we are paying taxes today, we are redistributing wealth today... So to say he will redistribute the wealth is intellectually dishonest. It would be much more accurate to say he will change how the current distribution of wealth is distributed.