Nutjobs and health care

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Alien Allen

Alien Allen

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skyblue said:
Yet extremely rich people from around the world in countries with "public" health care flock to the US for the quality of the care, technology, innovation and medicine.


(edited)

you're all missing the point here...you'll still be able to have private health care if you can afford it
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you are missing the point

the legislation makes it inevitable that everybody will have to be on the public plan.

One can only hope that insurance companies will be able to provide additional coverage. That would seem to just add to the bureaucracy though and result in added costs and if costs are to be controlled then they will be eliminated.
 
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skyblue

skyblue

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i thought america was a country of free enterprise.....you'll have your version of our national health system......plus you'll have private health care at private hospitals
 
Accountable

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Alien Allen said:
not true if you had a single payer. if that were to happen then we would all have health cards and have to prove citizenship to get one. you got no card you get no service :D
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Ah but you forget your American history, young grasshoppah. Requiring ID would discriminate against minorities because they're somehow incapable of keeping up with one. At least that's the song & dance about voter id & national id cards.

Also you've lost focus of Obama's main goal: destroying capitalism and redistributing the wealth.
 
Minor Axis

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Tangerine said:
Which, by the way, costs EVERYONE. Profits are what drives the stock market and every other facet of our economy. When you force business to profit less, everything grinds to a halt. Why do you think we are in the current mess? Because big business has seen profits plummet.
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I've not implied that big business does not deserve profits, but the movement to maximize profits at the cost of everything and everyone else is just as big a problem from a greed and healthy society aspect as the movement for Universal Health Care. There has to be a happy medium. But your argument sounds like healthy business is the only important thing, while disregarding and minimizing the cogs that make a business run, the rank and file workers.

Unfortunately the trend in corporate boardrooms is clearly away from being fair to all, to "how do I make myself rich?" At times it's taken so far as responsibility for a company long term is jettisoned, as long as corporate officers are taken care of in the short term with gi-normous golden parachutes.

I'm also not implying that corporations are immoral across the board, but clearly there are many cases were they are. They are more than happy to screw their employees and sink their company to make themselves unreasonably wealthy. This is my opinion.
 
Accountable

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skyblue said:
i thought america was a country of free enterprise.....you'll have your version of our national health system......plus you'll have private health care at private hospitals
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It won't be viable without the large consumer base we have now. Say bye bye to all the R&D and innovation.
 
Accountable

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Minor Axis said:
I've not implied that big business does not deserve profits, but the movement to maximize profits at the cost of everything and everyone else is just as big a problem from a greed and healthy society aspect as the movement for Universal Health Care. There has to be a happy medium. But your argument sounds like healthy business is the only important thing, while disregarding and minimizing the cogs that make a business run, the rank and file workers.

Unfortunately the trend in corporate boardrooms is clearly away from being fair to all, to "how do I make myself rich?" At times it's taken so far as responsibility for a company long term is jettisoned, as long as corporate officers are taken care of in the short term with gi-normous golden parachutes.

I'm also not implying that corporations are immoral across the board, but clearly there are many cases were they are. They are more than happy to screw their employees to make themselves unreasonably wealthy. This is my opinion.
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This is true. corporate leadership has a fiduciary responsibility to stockholders to maximize share value. I've actually seen executives tell legislators to make X law to make him do what he already knows is the right thing. He wants to do it but legally can't.

That ain't right. I'm more and more convinced that we need tight controls on corporations. They have been wrongly given status as citizens. That needs to change.
 
Alien Allen

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Accountable said:
Ah but you forget your American history, young grasshoppah. Requiring ID would discriminate against minorities because they're somehow incapable of keeping up with one. At least that's the song & dance about voter id & national id cards.

Also you've lost focus of Obama's main goal: destroying capitalism and redistributing the wealth.
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We already have Social Security ID's ;)

When it suits their purpose the liberals will sign on to anything :D
 
Accountable

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Not empty. Not conservative. Not rhetoric. It's all through his writings and speeches. You can also follow his advice to know who he really is by looking at the people he surrounds himself with.

As for capitalism, stop calling this Washington subsidized magic show capitalism and find out what it really is before you say you don't want it.
 
Docc_eee_aww

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Capitalism and socialism are economic theories, not political, and the US is a mixture of many types of economic theory. The stock markets are very much Capitalism driven, and very successful (with bumps) as far as economic theory (intertangle the complexities of oversight and it gets more dynamic -- a bit of capitalism here, a bit of socialism there, a bit of a monarchy (the fed)). I was at the fitness center when the dude in the locker next to me talked about how bad it was Americans are turning into socialists -- turns out he's retired from the governement (with governemnt healthcare). Working in government is actually socialistic. Funny. Also, socialism doesn't mean giving to the poor (for all you selfish bastards out there) -- it means pooling resources to obtain benefit for all. Like roads. Hard to drive on your own road.
Health care is so fucked up in America there is much oppurtunity to apply almost any theory, other than what we are doing now.
 
Meirionnydd

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Accountable said:
Ah ridicule - that last desparate weapon for those who've run out of logical argument. Nice.
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Yeah sorry. I couldn't come up with a decent rebuttal to the notion that Obama was destroying capitalism. Such a suggestion is so absurd it doesn't dignify a well thought-out or logical response.
 
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