I've never liked either of them either, Herman is such an ungrateful little shit, none of us would even know this guy's name if it weren't for Matt Lindland, you think this guy ever would have made it into the TUF house if he were training out of some local Gym no one's ever heard of? FUCK NO, he got on that show because of Team Quest and Matt Lindland, without those names attached to him they never even would have considered him for the show, and he never would have fought in the UFC or anything, he'd be trying to eek out a living fighting for a couple hundred $'s in obscure highschool gymnasiums throughout the state of Oregon, really he'd probably be retired by now because he fucking SUCKS and could never have made a name for himself on his own. And CHAEL, Chael is just such a piece of garbage, Lindland should have kicked this guy to the curb a long ass time ago, but that's not the kind of guy he is, he is loyal to his friends and training partners to the point where it is effecting his fighting career and his training new fighters career, he stands by these guys no matter what FUCKERY they might get themselves into and it's really making him look bad.