Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll

[All Else Failed]

Well, you're perfectly placed to witness the first domino toppling. I can console myself that if you are correct, you'll have to put up with the collapse of your value system for a lot longer than me.

Nah, odds are you'll be alive when it swings into full-on breakdown within 35 years or so.

Really got under your skin with that one............

Nah, nothing on here really bothers me. I'm just pointing out that you're a giant hypocrite when it comes to your dwarf country.

 

[clancy]

But that is a big "if".The lead investigator said on the witness stand there was no proof Zimmerman initiated it.

It does seem it will come down to that. Some legal experts say this will never make it to trial. It depends on whether or not the judge has the balls to throw it out. The prosecution has a very thin case if any at all but it is very politically charged. Any elected official who doesn't pass it on down the line is probably not going to get re-elected.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Again, you see NZ as something of a threat to be challenged. I have no great attachment to it other than I have chosen it with the same rational approach that one chooses a saber saw or a shelf bracket. Your approach appears to be to wrap yourself in the flag like you've just bought an F150 pickup because daddy had one, and his daddy, and his daddy before that. You call yourself an atheist, but you're not. You just believe in blind patriotism rather than the Bible.

 

[All Else Failed]

Again, you see NZ as something of a threat to be challenged. I have no great attachment to it other than I have chosen it with the same rational approach that one chooses a saber saw or a shelf bracket. Your approach appears to be to wrap yourself in the flag like you've just bought an F150 pickup because daddy had one, and his daddy, and his daddy before that. You call yourself an atheist, but you're not. You just believe in blind patriotism rather than the Bible.

Erm, do I? I don't see where I've even hinted at that. I'm referring to your incessant jocking of NZ which is just weird.


Oh dear god did you just compare patriotism with actual religiosity? That is basically as bad as a religious person saying science is religion. You're sounding like a creationist!


Oh and people should care about their country. This lackadaisical approach to where you live is what is helping corrode the West.

 

[retro]

But that is a big "if".The lead investigator said on the witness stand there was no proof Zimmerman initiated it.

You apparently don't understand the concept of a theoretical question. There's no proof (that has come out) staying who initiated the confrontation. I was asking a question.

If Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, wouldn't it be murder?

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Erm, do I? I don't see where I've even hinted at that. I'm referring to your incessant jocking of NZ which is just weird.

Flat out denial that you have an issue with something won't make your issue go away.

Oh dear god did you just compare patriotism with actual religiosity?

It's a similar affliction.Both are born out of insecurity.

Oh and people should care about their country. This lackadaisical approach to where you live is what is helping corrode the West.

Daft propaganda. Thinly veiled racism. Patriotism is a great opiate for those who don't have the resources or the commonsense to choose how and where they live.

 

[The Man]

You apparently don't understand the concept of a theoretical question. There's no proof (that has come out) staying who initiated the confrontation. I was asking a question.

If Zimmerman initiated the confrontation, wouldn't it be murder?

Wow the thread has grown no way for me to catch up so I will take this one.

IMO if he did start it{not that there is any evidence he did} that it still wouldnt be grounds to elevate the match into head pounding on the sidewalk...........unless Zimmerman had martins life in fear.
The funeral parlor people said he didnt have a mark on him other than the gunshot...so IMO zimmerman never had martin in a position for martin to elevate it to the level he did.

Now the applies if it was the other way around....you cant shoot a guy during a simple fist fight...in other words even if Martin attacked him you cant shoot unless the match becomes deadly.
The head pounding on the sidewalk was enough for Zimmerman to think so ...I have to agree..the sidewalk on the head is very unforgiving.

In the eyes of the jurors they will think so as well IMO....if not then he should go with a bench trial..He will win for sure..as the judge will disregard all of the petty arguments and base it off the given evidence.
"Hitting ones head on the sidewalk is intent to cause severe physical injury or death"..and he will be a free man.

A jury may come back with man slaughter as a sympathy conviction since they have him over charged with murder.
If he was charged with manslaughter they would probably come back as innocent.

A judge wont do a sympathy conviction so he needs a bench trial

 

[All Else Failed]

Flat out denial that you have an issue with something won't make your issue go away.

I don't have an issue with your country. I'm sure it is nice, but you're constant bragging about it is, like I said, just weird.

It's a similar affliction.Both are born out of insecurity.

No they aren't. You're not even qualified to make such a statement.

Daft propaganda. Thinly veiled racism. Patriotism is a great opiate for those who don't have the resources or the commonsense to choose how and where they live.

Haha, man, you leftists (you say you're a centrist but odds are you are just another leftist at heart) love to use the race card whenever you think you can shut down conversation with it.

And, again, you're smacking people who may have difficulty moving to another nation in the face. You're an elitist. Just admit it. You're a privileged leftist who lives in a place that you think is the best ever. If anything, YOU'RE sounding like the patriotic one.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

None of your last post makes any sense.

Why do you assume that I'm 'not even qualified' to make such a statement.?
Answer...Because that way you can dismiss it without having to address it.

Why do you choose to change my political affiliation to suit your bias?
Answer...Because that way you can dismiss it without having to address it.

Why would a leftist smack people who may have difficulty moving to another nation in the face.
Answer.....They wouldn't, but then I'm not a leftist.

Privileged? Hardly. I've got to where I want to be by staying ahead of technology and working hard. You have flaunted your privilege plenty, but you've not yet been in the workforce long enough to earn it.

Maybe you should stop ducking for cover and desperately trying to discredit me. People would be far more impressed if you actually came up with some original ideas instead of constantly trying to win by shit-flinging.

 

[All Else Failed]

but then I'm not a leftist.

What are some (what would be considered) right/conservative views that you have?

You have flaunted your privilege plenty

Give me a few examples of me "flaunting my privileged." You don't even know what I do for a living, ffs.

Maybe you should stop ducking for cover and desperately trying to discredit me.

I'm not discrediting you, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. You don't claim to be patriotic and think it is dumb, yet you always brag about how great NZ is and how it is one of the only civilized places on earth, for example.

You also seem to have a very low opinion of people who do not make a lot of money.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

What are some (what would be considered) right/conservative views that you have?

You're not very good at this, are you? I've already said that I'm a centrist, not a right winger.

Give me a few examples of me "flaunting my privileged." You don't even know what I do for a living, ffs.

I'm not the kind of fool who runs around looking for quotes simply because some pimply youth demands them. Nor do I
know or care what you do for a living. Last post I recall, you were still in college, sponging off the family,and driving a free car.

I'm not discrediting you, I'm pointing out your hypocrisy. You don't claim to be patriotic and think it is dumb, yet you always brag about how great NZ is and how it is one of the only civilized places on earth, for example.

Until you travel a bit more, you will have no understanding of how backward and inward looking the States has become.
Nor will you understand that the bogus patriotism pushed on the States since 9/11 is more for the benefit of fooling the silly sods who choose to stay there, rather than impressing the rest of us. Liking a country is not a crime.If I were stupid enough to be patriotic about it, I'd take offence at the cheap shots from the likes of yourself and clancymclovinwhateverthefuckhewantstocallhimselfnext.I don't even hold a NZ passport, despite having been eligible for one for longer than your scrawny knuckles have dragged on this planet.

You also seem to have a very low opinion of people who do not make a lot of money.

Which would seem to answer your first question, but of course, you're wrong.I have a very low opinion of people who want to make a lot of money, but aren't prepared to put in the effort or learn the skills. Deadbeat college kids are a favourite of mine. Those who back up their patriotic beliefs by enlisting and serving don't end up rich, but they get far more respect than the poor little rich kids who never work for a worthwhile thing in their lives.

 

[clancy]

Wow the thread has grown no way for me to catch up so I will take this one.

IMO if he did start it{not that there is any evidence he did} that it still wouldnt be grounds to elevate the match into head pounding on the sidewalk...........unless Zimmerman had martins life in fear.
The funeral parlor people said he didnt have a mark on him other than the gunshot...so IMO zimmerman never had martin in a position for martin to elevate it to the level he did.

Now the applies if it was the other way around....you cant shoot a guy during a simple fist fight...in other words even if Martin attacked him you cant shoot unless the match becomes deadly.
The head pounding on the sidewalk was enough for Zimmerman to think so ...I have to agree..the sidewalk on the head is very unforgiving.

In the eyes of the jurors they will think so as well IMO....if not then he should go with a bench trial..He will win for sure..as the judge will disregard all of the petty arguments and base it off the given evidence.
"Hitting ones head on the sidewalk is intent to cause severe physical injury or death"..and he will be a free man.

A jury may come back with man slaughter as a sympathy conviction since they have him over charged with murder.
If he was charged with manslaughter they would probably come back as innocent.

A judge wont do a sympathy conviction so he needs a bench trial

Agreed.

 

[clancy]

Wow the thread has grown no way for me to catch up so I will take this one.

IMO if he did start it{not that there is any evidence he did} that it still wouldnt be grounds to elevate the match into head pounding on the sidewalk...........unless Zimmerman had martins life in fear.
The funeral parlor people said he didnt have a mark on him other than the gunshot...so IMO zimmerman never had martin in a position for martin to elevate it to the level he did.

Now the applies if it was the other way around....you cant shoot a guy during a simple fist fight...in other words even if Martin attacked him you cant shoot unless the match becomes deadly.
The head pounding on the sidewalk was enough for Zimmerman to think so ...I have to agree..the sidewalk on the head is very unforgiving.

In the eyes of the jurors they will think so as well IMO....if not then he should go with a bench trial..He will win for sure..as the judge will disregard all of the petty arguments and base it off the given evidence.
"Hitting ones head on the sidewalk is intent to cause severe physical injury or death"..and he will be a free man.

A jury may come back with man slaughter as a sympathy conviction since they have him over charged with murder.
If he was charged with manslaughter they would probably come back as innocent.

A judge wont do a sympathy conviction so he needs a bench trial

What's the point of saying "what if" Zimmerman initiated it. Why not say "what if" aliens landed and caused them to fight. There is just as much evidence(or lack of) to support that theory as well. The witness, the injuries to Zimmerman and just plain logic back Zimmerman's account of what happened. Too many unanswered questions if Zimmerman was the aggressor here.

 

[All Else Failed]

You're not very good at this, are you? I've already said that I'm a centrist, not a right winger.

Centrism means you're not of either party, yet still retain elements from both parties since you're in the middle of the spectrum. I don't think you understand what centrism is.

Last post I recall, you were still in college, sponging off the family,and driving a free car.

Haha no I'm not. Dude, you're just blatantly making shit up now it is pretty embarrassing.

Until you travel a bit more, you will have no understanding of how backward and inward looking the States has become.
Nor will you understand that the bogus patriotism pushed on the States since 9/11 is more for the benefit of fooling the silly sods who choose to stay there, rather than impressing the rest of us. Liking a country is not a crime.If I were stupid enough to be patriotic about it, I'd take offence at the cheap shots from the likes of yourself and clancymclovinwhateverthefuckhewantstocallhimselfne xt.I don't even hold a NZ passport, despite having been eligible for one for longer than your scrawny knuckles have dragged on this planet.

I've been to Europe (three countries within it), Asia, Russia, Mexico, and Canada. America has its problems but odds are I'd rather live here than the countries I visited.

Deadbeat college kids are a favourite of mine. Those who back up their patriotic beliefs by enlisting and serving don't end up rich, but they get far more respect than the poor little rich kids who never work for a worthwhile thing in their lives.

yeah I'm not in college. I obtained my masters a while ago and I'm working.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

You're very fond of 'teenager style' argument, aren't you? Ignore the wider argument, focus on the one or two words that you can hang a rebuttal on,however irrelevant it may be, and kid yourself that you're winning.

My position is that until you've finished growing up,lived as a man for a while, and had to make some real decisions in difficult circumstances,you aren't in a position to provide any useful comment on cases as complex as Zimmerman/ Martin.

 

[All Else Failed]

You have no idea what my life is like or the descitions that I have made. Pretending that you do shows your glaring ignorance and some sort of egoism that you can dish out a specific definition of what it is to be an "adult" while ignoring what I have said.

I accept your defeat.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

And in doing so, you confirm everything that I have questioned in regards to your 'teenage' mentality.

 

[All Else Failed]

Nah, just continue to never really answer my points, totally fabricate things about my personal life and shift the goal post and you'll stay within character.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

I've drawn you away from the Zimmerman/Martin debate as it is it pretty much played out, and I feel that you would benefit from a little training. Every question or position that I have put to you, you have challenged robustly and unthinkingly. If it doesn't fit with your world, it must be wrong.At no point has it occurred to you that you may be mistaken...... Which is why your opinions on the Zimmerman case are so poorly presented and thinly disguised.

Despite your token efforts at claiming impartiality, it's clear that you think that Martin is the bad guy, and Zimmerman is some kind of a hero.It's obvious that you have established your position very early in the discussion, and that your character is such that you're not about to re-evaluate it, because your natural instincts are not mature enough to do anything but defend. I'd contend that you've stretched the truth in some of your defences because the idea of being 'wrong' is a very scary thought to you.

There is no 'wrong' in debates of the Zimmerman/Martin nature, aside from the wrong assumption that your own opinion is the only true and correct one. It is for the courts to decide, using the time proven method of judge and jury, whether Zimmerman broke the law. And if he didn't, the debate then focuses on the law itself. Only a fool would argue that the law is adequate purely to justify their instincts in an individual case.

 

[Aeval]

I've drawn you away from the Zimmerman/Martin debate as it is it pretty much played out, and I feel that you would benefit from a little training. Every question or position that I have put to you, you have challenged robustly and unthinkingly. If it doesn't fit with your world, it must be wrong.At no point has it occurred to you that you may be mistaken...... Which is why your opinions on the Zimmerman case are so poorly presented and thinly disguised.

Despite your token efforts at claiming impartiality, it's clear that you think that Martin is the bad guy, and Zimmerman is some kind of a hero.It's obvious that you have established your position very early in the discussion, and that your character is such that you're not about to re-evaluate it, because your natural instincts are not mature enough to do anything but defend. I'd contend that you've stretched the truth in some of your defences because the idea of being 'wrong' is a very scary thought to you.

There is no 'wrong' in debates of the Zimmerman/Martin nature, aside from the wrong assumption that your own opinion is the only true and correct one. It is for the courts to decide, using the time proven method of judge and jury, whether Zimmerman broke the law. And if he didn't, the debate then focuses on the law itself. Only a fool would argue that the law is adequate purely to justify their instincts in an individual case.

well said.