Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll

[Johnfromokc]

I've drawn you away from the Zimmerman/Martin debate as it is it pretty much played out, and I feel that you would benefit from a little training. Every question or position that I have put to you, you have challenged robustly and unthinkingly. If it doesn't fit with your world, it must be wrong.At no point has it occurred to you that you may be mistaken...... Which is why your opinions on the Zimmerman case are so poorly presented and thinly disguised.

Despite your token efforts at claiming impartiality, it's clear that you think that Martin is the bad guy, and Zimmerman is some kind of a hero.It's obvious that you have established your position very early in the discussion, and that your character is such that you're not about to re-evaluate it, because your natural instincts are not mature enough to do anything but defend. I'd contend that you've stretched the truth in some of your defences because the idea of being 'wrong' is a very scary thought to you.

There is no 'wrong' in debates of the Zimmerman/Martin nature, aside from the wrong assumption that your own opinion is the only true and correct one. It is for the courts to decide, using the time proven method of judge and jury, whether Zimmerman broke the law. And if he didn't, the debate then focuses on the law itself. Only a fool would argue that the law is adequate purely to justify their instincts in an individual case.

That about sums up the Zimmerbigots. Well done.

 

[Alien Allen]

It is for the courts to decide, using the time proven method of judge and jury, whether Zimmerman broke the law. And if he didn't, the debate then focuses on the law itself.

That looks suspiciously like you have determined he should be guilty

So much for your alleged open mind

 

[All Else Failed]

I've drawn you away from the Zimmerman/Martin debate as it is it pretty much played out, and I feel that you would benefit from a little training. Every question or position that I have put to you, you have challenged robustly and unthinkingly. If it doesn't fit with your world, it must be wrong.At no point has it occurred to you that you may be mistaken...... Which is why your opinions on the Zimmerman case are so poorly presented and thinly disguised.

Despite your token efforts at claiming impartiality, it's clear that you think that Martin is the bad guy, and Zimmerman is some kind of a hero.It's obvious that you have established your position very early in the discussion, and that your character is such that you're not about to re-evaluate it, because your natural instincts are not mature enough to do anything but defend. I'd contend that you've stretched the truth in some of your defences because the idea of being 'wrong' is a very scary thought to you.

There is no 'wrong' in debates of the Zimmerman/Martin nature, aside from the wrong assumption that your own opinion is the only true and correct one. It is for the courts to decide, using the time proven method of judge and jury, whether Zimmerman broke the law. And if he didn't, the debate then focuses on the law itself. Only a fool would argue that the law is adequate purely to justify their instincts in an individual case.

See breh, this is where your classic "lets make shit up about people" strikes again. Never have I even hinted at making Zimmerman out to be some "hero", nor do I think he is one. Heroicism is a specific kind of behavior coupled with action that does not match what Zimmerman did.

Also, you're ridiculous "I decide what is mature" mentality is downright hilarious. I can't think of another user in the past few years that posted stuff that literally made me laugh, and you're that guy. You simply accuse people of not being "mature" when they disagree with you. It is ultimately a fall-back insult you use to shift the attention away from what is being said to literally "NAH NAH NAH NAHHHH YOU'RE NOT MATURE ENOUGH", which, in the end, is probably the most immature thing happening in this thread. It is an intellectual cop-out of the highest order and you know it.

I have said multiple times that Zimmerman could be 100% guilty of murder, and I'll say it again. If I ever came off as thinking Zimmerman is innocent, it was probably out of the avalanche of people in this thread who seem to think they know what happened that night beyond a shadow of a doubt. The kind of speech used in this thread points to some people having this outlook.

That looks suspiciously like you have determined he should be guilty

So much for your alleged open mind

This is what he does. it is a pattern I've noticed in his posting. He will accuse someone of something that he himself is taking part in. No surprise and it brings me great pleasure.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

That looks suspiciously like you have determined he should be guilty

So much for your alleged open mind

My position is not around whether Zimmerman is guilty or not, he killed a man. My position is that until the full circumstances are known, it's impossible to decide what he is guilty of,murder, manslaughter, or laughably bad judgement.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Also, you're ridiculous "I decide what is mature" mentality is downright hilarious. I can't think of another user in the past few years that posted stuff that literally made me laugh, and you're that guy. You simply accuse people of not being "mature" when they disagree with you. It is ultimately a fall-back insult you use to shift the attention away from what is being said to literally "NAH NAH NAH NAHHHH YOU'RE NOT MATURE ENOUGH", which, in the end, is probably the most immature thing happening in this thread. It is an intellectual cop-out of the highest order and you know it.

If you can find any other poster that I have observed as immature, feel free to point to some evidence. Unfortunately, you won't find any. Please don't take it as an insult, but it's clear from your posts that you're not particularly mature. The fact that you see me as a threat rather than a potential mentor is typical behaviour of the young would-be alpha male.

Your posts are heavily slanted with the argument that Zimmerman should get off. For all your wishing to appear an unbiased liberal, you're a scared conservative.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

However, Zimmerman was not arrested and charged at the time of the incident, SO, we will all have to wait to see what the investigation turns up. You can't just go back and arrest the guy due to popular demand.

There are three dynamics at play here that are driving public interest in the trial. Prominence is given to whether or not Zimmerman was entitled under the law as it stands to behave as he did. The bigger issue is whether or not the law around what constitutes self-defence is clear enough. The notion that every fight will escalate to a fatality is flawed. Since dead teenagers seldom give evidence, it will be very hard to prove that Martin had any intent to kill Zimmerman.The scary part of course,is that Zimmerman is not obligated under law to prove anything. His defence that he 'believed' that his life was in danger should be adequate to satisfy current legislation. We will never know whether he genuinely believed, because if he knows that he fired prematurely or out of anger, he's never going to admit it. He's the only man left alive who knows what he was thinking when he pulled the trigger, and his lawyers have had ample time to coach him on the correct answer.

The third variable that gets even less press is what was Treyvon Martin thinking. Was he, as Zimmerman assumed,walking the streets with the intention of breaking the law, or was he just a kid heading home when he got pursued by a stranger?Did he believe that his life was in danger, and did he believe that he was fighting for his life?

It is quite possible that both men believed that they were at mortal risk. It's up to the court to decide if a crime has been committed, and it's up to the state of Florida to determine how best to close this glaring loophole in the law, namely that if both parties believe their lives to be in danger, they must fight to the death and will still be within their rights.

 

[All Else Failed]

If you can find any other poster that I have observed as immature, feel free to point to some evidence. Unfortunately, you won't find any. Please don't take it as an insult, but it's clear from your posts that you're not particularly mature. The fact that you see me as a threat rather than a potential mentor is typical behaviour of the young would-be alpha male.

Your posts are heavily slanted with the argument that Zimmerman should get off. For all your wishing to appear an unbiased liberal, you're a scared conservative.

Hahahahahaha

Oh man, the odyssey continues.

Stow your ego away, Kiwi. I do not wish for you to be my mentor. You have nothing to offer me that I haven't heard from cocky leftists before.


And how am I trying to appear to be a "liberal"? I am not a liberal. I don't even know how the heck you're coming up with these delusions, man. You have been making stuff up for the past few pages about me and it is honestly very strange. I would step back from all of this and take a breath.


And in classic style, you attempt to tell me how I am feeling. This is what you do. When someone says something you do not like, your ego inflates and you rant about being civilized, being a "mentor" and making things up about people's personal lives and how they feel.


Just step off of it, guy. You're continually striking out.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

You've very helpfully highlighted the relevant phrase.....Too bad that you're too immature to interpret it correctly.

It was not an offer of mentoring. It was a statement.

Mentoring is of no use to anyone unless they make a decision to seek it.

You still have your head wedged firmly up your own ass,and quite frankly the only voice you want to listen to is your own.

And as for the 'liberal' comment - a quick use of the search box will confirm that you have claimed to be a liberal in previous threads.

Lastly , I'm not telling you how you're feeling - I'm telling you what you come across as.A scared Conservative.

If you'd rather argue with how people see you than think about why they see you that way, carry on.

 

[The Man]

I wonder how George is doing..having to hide and all from the lynch mobs..and the Black Panthers,,Rough Road ahead.
If they find him innocent riots will break out..and he will still have to hide.
New Zealand is pretty tame hey..Perhaps he could go there and be free from public persecution?

 

[The Man]

Something odd I noted from the poll/ Only one fourth dont think Martin attacked Zimmerman than those that do
....but there seem to be alot more "vocalality" for Martin
Rowdy underdogs lol

What the fuck gets me is how can ANYONE think Martin didnt attack Zimmerman..given the gashes and broken nose that george received.....for petes sake he was getting whipped so bad he had to shoot the guy

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

It's curious that you demand that Zimmerman be excused for defending himself, but refuse to acknowledge that Martin could have been defending himself too.

 

[The Man]

It's curious that you demand that Zimmerman be excused for defending himself, but refuse to acknowledge that Martin could have been defending himself too.

Could have...but there is nothing to show Martin was.
Looks the early media was wrong from the very beginning...The more evidence that come in the more it backs Georges story .
The Martin bots just keep on repeating what if arguments

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

I wonder how George is doing..having to hide and all from the lynch mobs..

Post 476 dealt with the "lynch mobs" fallacy. They're a historical obscenity that the whites tended to inflict on the blacks.

But, if you can name any case in the last forty years that ended in a lynching, I'm interested.

 

[The Man]

You may want to familiarize yourself with the case rather than cheerlead for the Martin bots.
The black panthers put a bounty on him before he was arrested /10 thousand dollars I believe.
Now what do you think they was going to do with him?
Give him ice cream?

 

[All Else Failed]

You've very helpfully highlighted the relevant phrase.....Too bad that you're too immature to interpret it correctly.

It was not an offer of mentoring. It was a statement.

Mentoring is of no use to anyone unless they make a decision to seek it.

You still have your head wedged firmly up your own ass,and quite frankly the only voice you want to listen to is your own.

And as for the 'liberal' comment - a quick use of the search box will confirm that you have claimed to be a liberal in previous threads.

Lastly , I'm not telling you how you're feeling - I'm telling you what you come across as.A scared Conservative.

If you'd rather argue with how people see you than think about why they see you that way, carry on.

Um, I was left leaning like 4 years ago. I am a conservative.

and I'm not sure how you're getting the notion that I am "scared"? You know what, I better not even ask because you're going to throw together some strange excuse.

 

[The Man]

There are three dynamics at play here that are driving public interest in the trial. Prominence is given to whether or not Zimmerman was entitled under the law as it stands to behave as he did. The bigger issue is whether or not the law around what constitutes self-defence is clear enough. The notion that every fight will escalate to a fatality is flawed. Since dead teenagers seldom give evidence, it will be very hard to prove that Martin had any intent to kill Zimmerman.The scary part of course,is that Zimmerman is not obligated under law to prove anything. His defence that he 'believed' that his life was in danger should be adequate to satisfy current legislation. We will never know whether he genuinely believed, because if he knows that he fired prematurely or out of anger, he's never going to admit it. He's the only man left alive who knows what he was thinking when he pulled the trigger, and his lawyers have had ample time to coach him on the correct answer.

The third variable that gets even less press is what was Treyvon Martin thinking. Was he, as Zimmerman assumed,walking the streets with the intention of breaking the law, or was he just a kid heading home when he got pursued by a stranger?Did he believe that his life was in danger, and did he believe that he was fighting for his life?

It is quite possible that both men believed that they were at mortal risk. It's up to the court to decide if a crime has been committed, and it's up to the state of Florida to determine how best to close this glaring loophole in the law, namely that if both parties believe their lives to be in danger, they must fight to the death and will still be within their rights.

Actually what drove the occurrence to the point of being major news was all the fucking lies.
It basically went as follows...Crazed white man shoots young black boy on way home from candy store...complete with picture from elementary school.
A major network edited the 911 transcript to make him look like a racist.
The ones involved have since been fired.

Sharpton and Jackson {2 high profile racists} pushed the shooting with nothing but hate and lies.
Turns out all of it was lies.
Had all the lies not been told to begin with...it would just be another shooting.

The original prosecutor did not file....and we see why,,,it was all bullshit.
This case is nothing more now than a case to sooth the Hysteria.
They called in a special prosecutor is who is known have unethical practices

 

[All Else Failed]

Everything you say is the truth of how the information has been manipulated, The man. Lets see how this pans out.


The media seems to have taken quite a few steps in order to skew information to make what potentially happened fit into their narrative.

 

[The Man]

Everything you say is the truth of how the information has been manipulated, The man. Lets see how this pans out.


The media seems to have taken quite a few steps in order to skew information to make what potentially happened fit into their narrative.

News sells..so they had to twist the news.
I couldn't purposely falsify news as they done..I would feel like a racist and couldnt work there

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Actually what drove the occurrence to the point of being major news was all the fucking lies.
It basically went as follows...Crazed white man shoots young black boy on way home from candy store...complete with picture from elementary school.
A major network edited the 911 transcript to make him look like a racist.
The ones involved have since been fired.

Sharpton and Jackson {2 high profile racists} pushed the shooting with nothing but hate and lies.
Turns out all of it was lies.
Had all the lies not been told to begin with...it would just be another shooting.

The original prosecutor did not file....and we see why,,,it was all bullshit.
This case is nothing more now than a case to sooth the Hysteria.
They called in a special prosecutor is who is known have unethical practices

For a man who claims to be impartial, you're doing a mighty fine job of trying to discredit anyone who doesn't already believe that the shooter is the victim.

 

[Kakapo Dundee]

Um, I was left leaning like 4 years ago. I am a conservative.

and I'm not sure how you're getting the notion that I am "scared"? You know what, I better not even ask because you're going to throw together some strange excuse.

Interesting.Why did you decide to sell out?

I've already explained that you're scared of changing your mind.You don't debate, you just repeat.