All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Zimmerman said that Trayzon attacked him when he was on his way back to his SUV
Martin/Zimmerman-----Poll
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Zimmerman said that Trayzon attacked him when he was on his way back to his SUV
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So you want me to believe that George who saw Trayvon as a fucking punk/coon (which ever word he said on the tape) who always "get's away with it" decided to stop chasing him and go back to his SUV?
Please explain that to me.
Just listen to the 911 call again. George was clearly unhappy that these "punks" always get away. This is the reason he followed him in the first place. So what reason would George have to stop perusing him and walk back to his SUV?
Does that really make any sense?
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
Does it make sense that Martin did not make it the house?
Does it make sense the gf did not call police when the line went dead?
Lots of things don't add up.
People are consumed with the fact Zimmerman left the car. Sure if he had stayed put nothing would have happened. But that is only legally relevant if Zimmerman started a confrontation. While that may very well be what happened it is equally possible the kid was pissed at being followed and lipped off. And then things spiralled out of control.
The press made this out initially as a racially based vigilante. Which may also be true. But I am thinking it had more to do with looking suspicious and if it had been a white kid Zimmerman still would have been concerned.
Seems a huge stretch to call this murder. More like manslaughter if anything. I think a good lawyer would poke enough holes in the case to make even that a hard sell to a full jury.
No, not really. We would really need to know the timing of each of their actions. We know that Zimmerman and Trayvon went in different directions. Zimmerman went around the other side of the building to either cut him off or try to catch up. But we don't know how they met on the other side.
From the tapes, you can tell that they were right on top of each other. Meaning that Zimmerman was pretty close behind, it's not like he waited to follow him. And if he did go around the other side of the building to cut him off like he said, there was a good chance he got their first, getting in between Trayvon and his intended route...
Again, this is all speculation... But it's pretty hard to believe that George gave up before meeting up with Trayvon and went back to his SUV.
I'm not sure on this one... It's hard to say since we will never know what the conversation was between them. Unless the NSA releases the recordings of that call
You are correct... that's why I would like to see this go to trial so they can present the evidence and see if the jury can sort it out.
I don't give a rats ass that Zimmerman left the car. That's not the action that caused the death of Trayvon.
My problem is that there was a confrontation that lead to a death. I think we need to know how that confrontation started, actually the jury needs to know.
Come on... you know that no one here gives a shit what the idiots in the press have to say. No one in this thread is just blindly following the press on this. We are having a pretty good debate on the evidence as it's presented... right? We just have differing points of view and interpret things differently.
I agree, this would fall under manslaughter in most other states. But from what I've heard so far, 2nd degree murder charges in Florida are equivalent to manslaughter in other states and carries a similar sentence. So I'm not to hung up on what they call it.
Bullshit. There is a difference. To prove 2nd degree murder it has to be shown GZ killed with a "depraved mind" and without regard to human life. Manslaughter is different. Angela Corey is a nutjob unless she has proof that hasn't been released yet.
It's a shame GZ's family had to testify by telephone because of the fucktard's with a lynchmob mentality. I just saw a news story about since GZ was released Twitter has blown up with people talking about killing Zimmerman. How about innocent until PROVEN guilty and Justice for ALL.
It's a shame GZ's family had to testify by telephone because of the fucktard's with a lynchmob mentality. I just saw a news story about since GZ was released Twitter has blown up with people talking about killing Zimmerman. How about innocent until PROVEN guilty and Justice for ALL.
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
Um, yeah, why is that hard to believe? He said he was returning to his SUV when Trayvon reengaged him. His reason was that they person told him to stop following him, to which he said "okay", and after started to give them the information about where he is, and also he didn't want to give a certain piece of information since Zimmerman "didn't know where he was". If Zimmerman was continually chasing Trayvon like you suggest, Zimmerman would not have said "I don't know where he is" on the 9/11 phone call.
Alien Allen
Froggy the Prick
I wonder if the GF ever tried calling Martin back after the line went dead?
It appears thus far she did not contact the police or anybody with concerns.
I think if this is true then it will shake her credibility and leave doubts as to what she heard. The only reason I can come up with for her to not call back or contact somebody with concern is she heard Martin start the confrontation.
Perhaps somebody can throw out some other ideas as to why her inaction.
On the flip side the defense is going to have a hard time claiming Martin was beating up Zimmerman if there were no marks on Martins hands.
And Tim if it were not for the distortions by the press this would not even be talked about. Clearly many made their minds up early on that it was a crazed guy attacking a black kid. The press should be sued for how they handled this. From NBC doctoring a transcript to ABC hiding the damage to the head to the pictures of Zimmerman from years before, to a picture of the kid years before, to the huge discrepancy in Zimmermans weight and comparing him to a kid when the kid was way taller and not a little teenager... Just to name a few.
It appears thus far she did not contact the police or anybody with concerns.
I think if this is true then it will shake her credibility and leave doubts as to what she heard. The only reason I can come up with for her to not call back or contact somebody with concern is she heard Martin start the confrontation.
Perhaps somebody can throw out some other ideas as to why her inaction.
On the flip side the defense is going to have a hard time claiming Martin was beating up Zimmerman if there were no marks on Martins hands.
And Tim if it were not for the distortions by the press this would not even be talked about. Clearly many made their minds up early on that it was a crazed guy attacking a black kid. The press should be sued for how they handled this. From NBC doctoring a transcript to ABC hiding the damage to the head to the pictures of Zimmerman from years before, to a picture of the kid years before, to the huge discrepancy in Zimmermans weight and comparing him to a kid when the kid was way taller and not a little teenager... Just to name a few.
I think the photo of GZ's wounds are sufficient enough to back his story up. Not to mention the police report said he was bleeding from his head and nose. People don't always get bruises on their hands when they punch someone. I do wonder if Martin had been using drugs. He was suspended from school for having drug related items. The autopsy should reveal that.
Kakapo Dundee
Active Member
I really love the irony of statements like this. Vigilante shoots unarmed man on suspicion that he may be loitering with intent to commit a crime after being advised not to engage by the authorities,and the Klan screams that he's a victim?
What I just typed is just as silly and offensive as the arguments that presume Zimmerman as a victim.
Only difference is, I'm knowingly and deliberately skewing and embellishing the the information available for the sole purpose of demonstrating how easy it is in this case to build an argument that favours one side. Frankly, I think that too many people are jumping on the bandwagon with simplistic versions of the facts.
Until there is evidence presented in a manner that meets the requirements of the courts, none of of us knows exactly what happened.
What I do know is that I am glad that I don't have to live in a community that perceives itself as so lawless that it sanctions the use of armed mall cops to harass those who are using its public spaces.
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
yeah so stop acting like you know what happened yourself
Johnfromokc
Active Member
Consider yourself fortunate mate. Half our population thinks in a redneck-cowboy fashion like that. It blows my mind how these fucktards bend over backward to defend the killing of an unarmed teenager by a moron who knew better and had just been told never to follow a suspect.
You New Zealanders got room for a Nurse and an HVAC-Electrician and a couple of college kids to immigrate?
Kakapo Dundee
Active Member
Selective quoting there. Was it a deliberate attempt to distort what I said?
[In case you don't get it, it's as rhetorical question, and I'm mocking your lack of debating skills]
Kakapo Dundee
Active Member
Room for most everyone, but leave your handguns at the door.
Johnfromokc
Active Member
The main reason we need them here is to protect ourselves from the type of idiot conservatives that believe Zimmerman was justified in killing an unarmed teenager.
There is still a LOT of unanswered questions to this whole case. I really am interested to see how this whole thing plays out and what will happen when it is all over.
One thing is for sure, I'm glad that the whole "Stand-Your-Ground" law is being looked over a little more closely now.
One thing is for sure, I'm glad that the whole "Stand-Your-Ground" law is being looked over a little more closely now.
Kakapo Dundee
Active Member
Just to give the rednecks some perspective on what it is to live in a civilised country,read and learn.
http://www.police.govt.nz/service/aos
There is absolutely no way in this country that we would consider allowing armed civilians to impersonate law enforcement officers.
http://www.police.govt.nz/service/aos
There is absolutely no way in this country that we would consider allowing armed civilians to impersonate law enforcement officers.
All Else Failed
Well-Known Member
He wasn't impersonating an officer.
And to just generalize everyone who doesn't swallow that Zimmerman is Lucifer's own son as a "redneck" is vastly disingenuous and an outright lie. It is basically playground name calling.
and get out of here with that ~*a ReAL cIvILisEd cOunTrY*~ bullshit
If he did it out of defense then yeah it was justified
And to just generalize everyone who doesn't swallow that Zimmerman is Lucifer's own son as a "redneck" is vastly disingenuous and an outright lie. It is basically playground name calling.
and get out of here with that ~*a ReAL cIvILisEd cOunTrY*~ bullshit
If he did it out of defense then yeah it was justified
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Why is it so hard to understand that if you are the aggressor, then you lose the right to claim self defense? Zimmerman chased Martin, that makes him the aggressor. It doesn't matter how the fight started or who was winning, it would have NEVER have happened if Zimmerman stayed in his fucking car.
How is this any different than if you walk into a store and demand the money, the clerk pulls out a gun and shots at you, missing and killing some innocent kid in the back of the store? The clerk is not at fault, the guy robbing the store is the one who will be charged with murder. Not because he pulled the trigger, but it was because of his actions that lead to the kids death... Your actions count.
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