Legalized Racial Profiling- do you feel safer?

[itsmeJonB]

now who is using stereotypes?

and how is a cop asking for your ID a harassment?

the first time is not harassment

its the next time and the next time, etc

I believe racism and stereotyping exist, I'd be naive if I didn't. I dont condone it and dont respect law enforcement who use it as their purpose to stop someone minding their own business

 

[JanieDough]

the first time is not harassment

its the next time and the next time, etc

I believe racism and stereotyping exist, I'd be naive if I didn't. I dont condone it and dont respect law enforcement who use it as their purpose to stop someone minding their own business

then how do you suggest we find illegal immigrants and send them home?

 

[Alien Allen]

I dont know what has you convinced that the "crime rate" is caused by illegals. if anything they follow the law better than most citizens you may be familiar with in fear of being forced to leave the US, which they came here to support their families to begin with.

I believe you would be in error

At least with regard to illegals and the border states

There is a ton of drug running stuff that is pretty nasty and those actors don't give a damn

Plus with many of the illegals it is a revolving door. They get caught. They get sent back and then come on back here again and again

 

[Tim]

then how do you suggest we find illegal immigrants and send them home?

Did you watch this video? Did you see what happened to this county when the illegals were run out practically overnight?

http://www.offtopicz.net/showpost.php?p=1584396&postcount=10

 

[itsmeJonB]

I believe you would be in error

At least with regard to illegals and the border states

There is a ton of drug running stuff that is pretty nasty and those actors don't give a damn

Plus with many of the illegals it is a revolving door. They get caught. They get sent back and then come on back here again and again

drug traffickers =/= illegal immigrants

 

[Tangerine]

and i'm sure that NONE of them are getting refunds from EIC...:cool

They aren't. People with fake SS# don't file, as a general rule. The IRS keep every penny of the unclaimed, unreturnable revenue.

 

[Tangerine]

if yall are for illegal immigration that's one thing

but if you're for enforcing the laws we have right now against illegal immigration that's what this is about.



and i'm not completely convinced that you guys are right about the economy collapsing if illegals left. even if you were, if it meant the crime rate went down and public resources did not have to be spent on people who were here illegally, i would be ok with it.

There's just something WRONG and ILLEGAL to me about people being here without ID or SS#.

If you're illegal you shouldn't be taking some one else's SS#, and you shouldn't be driving without insurance or a license. You shouldn't be able to go to free clinics, or set up a business and make money without using the proper channels.

Illegal or not, you should pay your taxes, not have a fraudulent identity, have ID and credentials for whatever you are doing, etc.

What I am for is a guest worker program. It's extremely UN-American to penalize and demonize the people in our society who work hard, support their families and WANT to be here for the simple reason that we have set up a system with there is absolutely NO avenue for them to do it "legallly."

I wonder whatever happened to the idea of accountability for ones actions, of for judging people by the content of their character and NOT by the coloir of their skin? (Or in this case, where they happened to have been born) Why is there not any outrage against the millions and millions of "legal Americans" who do not work, do NOT pay taxes, and drain the public resources at a vastly higher rate and margin than the "illegals" that it's so easy to scapegoat? Billions more dollars are wasted on federal handouts for lazy, unhealthy, uneducated white and black trash than we could EVER spend on our Latino immigrants. But no one bothers to look at those FACTS. It's easier to just say "ship them all home."

 

[Tangerine]

Janie, I'm curious

How many people of Latin descent who immigrated to this country (legally or otherwise) do you actually KNOW? Ever talked to? Or is all of your opinion on this matter based strictly on 3rd person observation and input from media/net/politicians etc?

 

[JanieDough]

They aren't. People with fake SS# don't file, as a general rule. The IRS keep every penny of the unclaimed, unreturnable revenue.

wait so how is that guy you know paying his taxes if he doesn't file???? you might get taxes taken out your check, but you probably still owe at least state taxes at the end...i'm sure a few of us know that from this year's tax season

Janie, I'm curious

How many people of Latin descent who immigrated to this country (legally or otherwise) do you actually KNOW? Ever talked to? Or is all of your opinion on this matter based strictly on 3rd person observation and input from media/net/politicians etc?

first of all - what opinion? about illegal immigration? or about the fact that it wouldn't impede on my right to have a cop check me for ID? that's the only opinion I was really trying to get across

It's whether or not it's racist to ask people for ID. I say no.

I also don't think it's trespassing on a liberty.


But here's my opinion on illegal immigration, and after that I'm leaving this thread because yall are making it personal, and I'm good.


am I for illegal immigration? no. but it's not because I have this sense that this is my country and they are going to take over the America my fore fathers fought for yada yada yada.
it's because I am not for people living "off the grid" so to speak. that comes with under prepared social systems like free clinics and jails and schools and police departments, it comes with substandard rights to those that are living illegally - poor housing, no health benefits, no legal rights, etc.

and everyone should pay taxes, and everyone should have rights and liberties that go with paying those taxes

some people get pissed about lazy people on welfare, but what's worse is people who don't pay taxes because they reap the benefits without paying for them.

and who is being stereotypical? I do know about a dozen separate latino families - some here legally and some here not legally.

but more than latinos I know asians - particularly Vietnamese. Louisiana has a shit load. I went to high school with more than I can count, and a lot of them are still my friends.

A lot of them almost didn't get to come to school because their parents were living here illegally, or had cousins or siblings who didn't come to school. All of us american kids had to come because the government knows about us, but the government has no way of knowing about illegal immigrants. A lot of them didn't get healthcare or dental care unless they found a free clinic that didn't check ID's.

they settle for jobs paying $1 or $2 an hour because they are illegal and don't have a voice or a legal leg to stand on, and they know it and they stay poor and have to work really hard for very little. it's like a sweat shop, but here and it's going on and being allowed because the government can't keep track of all these people who aren't even supposed to be here.


being for immigration is different than being for illegal immigration.

you might think that all people against illegal immigration are heartless mindless people who just follow what they hear on fox news, but I am not one of them

I know about the more human side to illegal immigration - what happens to the people who live here illegally. and even if it is better than what they would have in their own country, it's against the law for good reasons. and they will always remain partial citizens without full rights because they are in hiding.

a lot of immigrants aren't allowed in this country because our country is already being stressed by americans who pay into the system, let alone the people who don't and live here.

maybe if the system wasn't so taxed, the government would let more immigrants in legally and they would be able to enjoy the full rights of an American Citizen.

 

[darkangel]

But we are the Melting Pot! Looks something like this...

 

[Codrus]

You both missed the vital caveat.

i didn't miss anything, as i stated previously. its up to the officer to determine what constitutes suspicion/ suspicious behavior.

i don't see what is so difficult about this,....down from the video you posted, it stated something along the lines about how Texas adopted a similar law to the one in Florida after the incident on the video

probable cause/ suspicion is manifested when you refuse to show I.D., you are detained, questioned, asked again...if you still refuse,...you get arrested and fitted with some pretty uncomfortable braclets.

"Arrive on vacation,.leave on probation"...it is a well known Florida tag

you can stand on your principles and beliefs all day long,..but come down here and refuse to show a cop your I.D. and see where it gets you.
again, i don't agree with it, but that's the way it is,..just like i dont understand the law on the books in Baldwin park California that says Nobody is allowed to ride a bicycle in a swimming pool. or the one in blythe califonia that states You are not permitted to wear cowboy boots unless you already own at least two cows.or the one in Utah about no whale hunting.

they exist, some so vaguely worded so the law can be interpreted/manipulated to suit whom ever decides to wield it.

i don't give a damn about the tokenz, but dont expect me to believe that because you say something doesn't exist or is unconstitutional it wont happen and/or doesn't happen every day to people all over the U.S., people get pissed on and fucked over all the time by the system, whether its right or not

you asked for it,..i showed you,..it happens. you and i may not like it,..but there it is on the law books for all to see and few to be exempt from

we are on the same side..

 

[Accountable]

Being in this country illegally is similar to speeding or trespassing. Neither of which would warrant losing your kids over.
We aren't talking a felony or violent crime.

People visiting America get deported for speeding & trespassing?? Also, this is the only instance in which an American citizen gets deported without having committed a crime ... and citizens can't be deported even if the do commit a crime.

 

[Minor Axis]

It's a question of what the law already allows them to do which is ask for ID, and if you refuse to detain you for acting suspicious.

So how is asking people for their ID's on suspicion of them being an illegal immigrant any worse? AND even if it is worse doesn't it serve an ultimate good purpose?

I realize the bigger picture here is to not give up civil liberties like walking down the street without the cop asking you for ID, but is it really that horrible that a cop ask you for ID????

I think a good definition of "suspicious" is required. Acting nervous? Darty eyes? Carrying the same type of goods that a nearby store that was robbed carried? If you are simply walking down the street, and a store was robbed on the next street over, why would the police need to check your ID? How would it help them? And why should they be able to stop you and ask for your ID, unless they'd also need to be able to frisk you? We don't want to go there do we? There is no law I'm aware of that requires carrying an ID. I jog all the time without an ID. So when I say, "no got one", that is grounds to be arrested or detained?

I'm having a problem with the concept, that mostly boils down to racial profiling. However, I'm totally for legal sound action against illegal aliens. But if you have a neighborhood of Hispanics which ones are you going to card? The nicely dressed ones? Probably not. The ones in rags? Very possible. The real ethnic looking ones? That's possible. All of them? Now if you switch to a neighbor hood full of Anglos, how would you spot the illegal Canadians there? Might as well card everyone, "Your papers!" Racial profiling is not a good reason to single out any group imo, and I believe it is illegal in concept.

 

[Dana]

and citizens can't be deported even if the do commit a crime.

they wanted to deport Slick Rick who has been in this country i dunno how long and owned housing projects in NYC after he got Imprisoned. just my 1 cent.

 

[Accountable]

What I am for is a guest worker program.

You write this as if there isn't a way for any Hispanics to enter the country (spellcheck made me capitalize that; not sure if I agree). There is a way without creating another program and another bureaucracy. We simply need to significantly expand the numbers we allow in. There's your jobs program, Mr President. Beef up the INS instead of the IRS.

they wanted to deport Slick Rick who has been in this country i dunno how long and owned housing projects in NYC after he got Imprisoned. just my 1 cent.

Dunno the story, but sounds like he didn't get deported?

 

[MoonOwl]

Looks like it passed:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/obama.immigration/index.html?hpt=T1

 

[Tangerine]

You write this as if there isn't a way for any Hispanics to enter the country (spellcheck made me capitalize that; not sure if I agree). There is a way without creating another program and another bureaucracy. We simply need to significantly expand the numbers we allow in. There's your jobs program, Mr President. Beef up the INS instead of the IRS.



Dunno the story, but sounds like he didn't get deported?

There is no program for any Hispanic to enter this country to work in the mainstream workforce. The only visas available are for highly specialized jobs, of which there are only a tiny handful handed out. The most common way to get a visa to come to the US is with an immediate family sponsor, and the waiting list to even apply is - at least the last time I checked - about 5 years. That's just to get your name on the list, not to get a visa.

Allowing a guest worker visa would do exactly what you describe - allow more people in legally through the same agency. Which, by the way, is no longer INS. It's now called ICE.

 

[Accountable]

There is no program for any Hispanic to enter this country to work in the mainstream workforce. The only visas available are for highly specialized jobs, of which there are only a tiny handful handed out. The most common way to get a visa to come to the US is with an immediate family sponsor, and the waiting list to even apply is - at least the last time I checked - about 5 years. That's just to get your name on the list, not to get a visa.

Allowing a guest worker visa would do exactly what you describe - allow more people in legally through the same agency. Which, by the way, is no longer INS. It's now called ICE.

Which is where they keep illegal aliens and suspected terrorists.

I'm nowhere near knowledgeable enough to comment on this, but I'm betting the programs and quotas already in place can be adjusted/increased without creating yet another bureaucracy.

 

[Accountable]

Looks like it passed:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/04/23/obama.immigration/index.html?hpt=T1

So this will be the news instead of the joke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOLJU6dbZRc

 

[Burntblood]

Profiling of any kind is good.
It's how the FBI identifies all manner of evil within our society.
We all use profiling to protect ourselves and our families.
Don't be swayed by adverbs.
Profiling saves lives.