Legalized Racial Profiling- do you feel safer?

[Peter Parka]

As with most laws that seem to pass these days, it's just a useless gimmick. Silly people will feel safer for it, even though it dosen't achieve anything and wastes everyones time and money.

 

[Accountable]

Whether it's legal or not it's happening. I think that is the point. Things are just going to get way out of control for putting so much power on officers. Only bad can come from this.

A lot can be done to have employment controlled by using Social Security or some other form of National ID checked against a National database. A billion(s) dollar fence is not the solution. If you control the jobs, you'll control the immigrants. Just ask the Canadians...try to go up there and get a job without the proper documentation, good luck!

Same thing goes for hospital care, if you show up and pop out a kid, that should not guarantee you citizenship. Your kid came here illegally with you. Send ya both packn should be the policy.

I think we should guarantee citizenship to those conceived on US soil. If the parents can prove they were here in the time window of conception (receipts, passport stamp, etc, not a letter from cousin Jose) then the baby gets citizenship.

Illegal, un-Constitutional, and won't stand a review from any court at any level imo.

Maybe. But just like this healthcare law, how much damage will be done in the years it takes to challenge it and prove it's unconstitutional?




There's a reason the issue is purposely not being resolved. We're friends with Mexico and Canada. There's no good reason not to open the land borders. Employment problems can be controlled through tax incentives, such as paying US and Mexico payroll taxes or something. How's it done in Europe? Does France have a problem with Spaniards sneaking across the border to pick grapes?

 

[AnitaBeer]

I think it's funny someone is using the argument, but what if they don't have their ID on them, and then thinking they are going to be arrested.

I thought everyone knew that police officers have some pretty nifty technology sitting in there car and even without that they have a nice CB radio that could help out as well.

Anyone that is a legal immigrant and has their ID, but just forgot it at home will be found in the database. I highly doubt they will be arresting anyone that they can find doesn't have an ID on them. IT would be WAY to costly to just be throwing people in the slammer just cuz they forgot the ID at home. LOL

I for one ALWAYS have my drivers license on me.

Now if it was be I'd just shoot em right then and there for not having their ID...that'll teach em eh? BWAHAHA j/k I wouldn't do that.

 

[Tim]

No it isn't Nazi Germany, but that's not the only place or instance where authorities have the right to check for ID. And it's not like authorities are taking over a territory and sending these illegals to the gas chambers.

If you buy alcohol, cigarettes, cold medicine - you have to show ID.

If you are driving a car without your license they can give you a ticket.

If you are crossing the border or flying on an airplane, you have to have ID.


I believe if you have a green card, you are supposed to carry it on you at all times.


They may not be able to lock you up for not having your papers, but they can lock up and detain illegal immigrants.

But the question isn't if they can lock you up or not - it's if they can stop and ask you for ID.

The police do not have the authority to stop while I'm walking down the street and demand to see my ID.
The forth amendment gives me protection from such actions except when they have probable cause. It says nothing about suspicion.

...Same thing goes for hospital care, if you show up and pop out a kid, that should not guarantee you citizenship. Your kid came here illegally with you. Send ya both packn should be the policy.

The child must become a citizen if born here. If not, then what country are they a citizen of? Mexico? They will not recognize them as a citizen since they were born elsewhere.
Keeping the law as it always was is the right thing to do. We do need to address the other laws around it, but if you are born in the states, then you are one of us citizens.

AT the risk of sounding totally stupid....whats the difference between this and Terrorist profiling...


Not EVERY Mulsim/SIkh whatever is a terrorist...yet here (dont know about there) innocent people have been arrested because of "suspicions" and this new "terrorist Profiling"....


Bloody paranoia.....its contagious..... and at the risk of sounding like our friend Kelvin......the US loves to spread it rather than contain it.....

Just my 2 bobs worth

Terrorist profiling is also illegal. I'm not sure what law you are referring to, but we don't arrest or detain people because they are Muslim. It's illegal for the government to do so. That abortion of the law "The patriot act" expanded law enforcements ability to collect evidence, but probable cause is still needed.

I think we should guarantee citizenship to those conceived on US soil. If the parents can prove they were here in the time window of conception (receipts, passport stamp, etc, not a letter from cousin Jose) then the baby gets citizenship.

Maybe. But just like this healthcare law, how much damage will be done in the years it takes to challenge it and prove it's unconstitutional?

There's a reason the issue is purposely not being resolved. We're friends with Mexico and Canada. There's no good reason not to open the land borders. Employment problems can be controlled through tax incentives, such as paying US and Mexico payroll taxes or something. How's it done in Europe? Does France have a problem with Spaniards sneaking across the border to pick grapes?

:homo:

Except for the part about open borders... I'm not sold on that.
But you're right, a solution is easier than people think. You can control illegal immigration by controlling those who employ them.

I think it's funny someone is using the argument, but what if they don't have their ID on them, and then thinking they are going to be arrested.

I thought everyone knew that police officers have some pretty nifty technology sitting in there car and even without that they have a nice CB radio that could help out as well.

Anyone that is a legal immigrant and has their ID, but just forgot it at home will be found in the database. I highly doubt they will be arresting anyone that they can find doesn't have an ID on them. IT would be WAY to costly to just be throwing people in the slammer just cuz they forgot the ID at home. LOL

I for one ALWAYS have my drivers license on me.

Now if it was be I'd just shoot em right then and there for not having their ID...that'll teach em eh? BWAHAHA j/k I wouldn't do that.

You are missing my whole point. Yes, if I don't have my physical ID on my they can verify my identity with their computer or by calling it in.
My point is that I don't have to identify myself to a police officer or give them any information if I choose not to. They have absolutely no authority to stop me and ask for my identification if I'm not doing anything illegal. Just like they do not have the authority to enter my home and search it without that probable cause.
This is one of the basic freedoms we enjoy in the United States.
The constitution protects me, my home and property from unreasonable search or seizure.

 

[Minor Axis]

AT the risk of sounding totally stupid....whats the difference between this and Terrorist profiling...


Not EVERY Mulsim/SIkh whatever is a terrorist...yet here (dont know about there) innocent people have been arrested because of "suspicions" and this new "terrorist Profiling"....

I don't know enough about terrorist profiling, but I do know that on a commercial U.S. airliner, you are judged by your actions, not your race or religion. You have to do something questionable to be called on it. Admittedly, people of Middle Eastern descent will get more scrutiny regardless of what the policy says because that has been the background of most of the terrorists and it's a natural human reaction, but I'm not condoning it. Just like if I was Hispanic, I'd not like it if it was always assumed I'm a wet back. In the airport I watch tons of people with Middle Eastern or African descent go through the employee line and all they need is their ID, no questions asked.

The tricky, possibly questionable part is what did they have to do to get those cards? Don't know.

TThe child must become a citizen if born here. If not, then what country are they a citizen of? Mexico? They will not recognize them as a citizen since they were born elsewhere.

If the mother is in the states illegally, so is the child. When they deport her, she can take her son home with her. I admit that if Mexico won't accept the child, then there is a problem, but the pure logic of what I'm saying is sound. If you break the law to enter, your child does not deserve citizenship imo because you the parent are not recognized as a citizen, you are a foreigner illegally trespassing in another country. Illegal aliens drawing off the U.S.'s social structure is a huge problem and a huge drag on our resources. And thousands upon thousands of illegals use this tactic to subvert internationally recognized laws to gain permanent entrance to the country.

 

[Alien Allen]

If the mother is in the states illegally, so is the child. When they deport her, she can take her son home with her. I admit that if Mexico won't accept the child, then there is a problem, but the pure logic of what I'm saying is sound. If you break the law to enter, your child does not deserve citizenship imo because you the parent are not recognized as a citizen, you are a foreigner illegally trespassing in another country. Illegal aliens drawing off the U.S.'s social structure is a huge problem and a huge drag on our resources. And thousands upon thousands of illegals use this tactic to subvert internationally recognized laws to gain permanent entrance to the country.

and when these illegals find a way to stay under the radar for a few years then you get the bleeding hearts who say we can not penalize the kids for the actions of the parents. That is bull shit. If the parents were here illegally when the child was born the kid should have no rights.

I agree that employers are a large part of the problem. Even though there are laws on the books that should hold them accountable.

 

[JanieDough]

The police do not have the authority to stop while I'm walking down the street and demand to see my ID.
The forth amendment gives me protection from such actions except when they have probable cause. It says nothing about suspicion.

:24::24::24:

you can't argue the fourth amendment!!!! there's these things called laws that exist as long as they don't violate the constitution


and a police office does have the right to stop you and ask you for your name and address in the very least.

then if they ask you for your ID and you refuse, they can detain you on suspicion.

It's not very practical to argue your fourth amendment while they arrest you either!!! :24:





and if you guys are opposed to this, then you must be opposed to "random" (but we all know targeted) security screenings at the airport.

 

[hart]

Profiling will continue with or without a law. And some of those doing the profiling will be prejudiced. As for children of illegal immigrants born in America, automatically being given citizenship.....Naaa, though it is not the fault of the child how/where/when they are born, it is illegal and they should be deported with their parents.

Me, I want to get rid of Homeland Security........ my two cents

 

[dt3]

and if you guys are opposed to this, then you must be opposed to "random" (but we all know targeted) security screenings at the airport.

The random screenings at the airport ARE completely random. I say that with full confidence from working for the TSA for 8 months. It's not racial profiling, it's a computer algorithm.

 

[Tim]

:24::24::24:

you can't argue the fourth amendment!!!! there's these things called laws that exist as long as they don't violate the constitution


and a police office does have the right to stop you and ask you for your name and address in the very least.

then if they ask you for your ID and you refuse, they can detain you on suspicion.

It's not very practical to argue your fourth amendment while they arrest you either!!! :24:





and if you guys are opposed to this, then you must be opposed to "random" (but we all know targeted) security screenings at the airport.

Wow, you really don't know the law, do you.

If I am not doing anything wrong, then the police cannot force me to provide identification. They cannot search me or my property.
If I was detained with no probable cause I would have the law on my side. I would be able to fight it in court and win.

And the analogy of the airport screening... it has no place in this conversation. If I choose to use air travel, then I am bound by their rules and regulations. And if that means I have to go through a check point or screening, then so be it. But I can choose not to be subject to such screenings by not flying. The choice is mine.

 

[JanieDough]

Wow, you really don't know the law, do you.

If I am not doing anything wrong, then the police cannot force me to provide identification. They cannot search me or my property.
If I was detained with no probable cause I would have the law on my side. I would be able to fight it in court and win.

haha no you won't

and you're right. I guess some one who went to law school has no idea about the law....:cool

 

[Codrus]

 

[Tim]

haha no you won't

and you're right. I guess some one who went to law school has no idea about the law....:cool

You don't need to produce your ID if you are not doing anything illegal.

http://carlosmiller.com/2010/02/18/are-you-required-to-produce-id-if-a-cop-demands-it/

 

[Tim]

http://carlosmiller.com/2010/02/18/are-you-required-to-produce-id-if-a-cop-demands-it/

 

[Codrus]

 

[Tim]

Tell you what...

I'll give 500,000 tokenz to anyone that can show me a law where I'm required to produce ID when asked by and officer, while I'm in public and there is no probable cause.

 

[Codrus]

Tell you what...

I'll give 500,000 tokenz to anyone that can show me a law where I'm required to produce ID when asked by and officer, while I'm in public and there is no probable cause.

here is florida's

[SIZE=-1]856.021 Loitering or prowling; penalty.-- [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](1) It is unlawful for any person to loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals, under circumstances that warrant a justifiable and reasonable alarm or immediate concern for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](2) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstance makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm or immediate concern which would otherwise be warranted by requesting the person to identify himself or herself and explain his or her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this section if the law enforcement officer did not comply with this procedure or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person is true and, if believed by the officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm or immediate concern. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1](3) Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

basically it seems to be at the officers discretion.
[/SIZE]

 

[Tim]

It is unlawful for any person to loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law-abiding individuals

That is the key phrase. If you are loitering you are not following the law in most states. At that point the police can ascertain why you are there and what you are doing... and ask for your ID

But I'm talking about walking down the street without giving any probable cause that a crime is being committed or was just committed by you.

 

[hart]

I know this isn't the topic, but have you ever wondered who so MANY cops do illegal things, like beat a suspect who doesn't comply fast enuf to something, when they KNOW they have cameras in their squad car?

I mean I understand when they get filmed by the public but their own car and they still do it. That always has me scratching my head......

 

[Codrus]

That is the key phrase. If you are loitering you are not following the law in most states. At that point the police can ascertain why you are there and what you are doing... and ask for your ID

But I'm talking about walking down the street without giving any probable cause that a crime is being committed or was just committed by you.

but still..it does say


[SIZE=-1](2) Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm or immediate concern is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself or herself, or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself or herself or any object.[/SIZE]