Is the U S shirking it’s duty to democracy ?

[retro]

So when the UN voted on this resolution, we should have voted against it?

You are alright with watching fighter jets dropping bombs on unarmed citizens? Or attack helicopters mowing down crowds?

and you say we shouldn't have gone into Iraq, so you were okay with Saddam gassing his citizens. Let's forget about the fact that we went in and deposed him under different pretenses, the fact remained that the guy was a brutal dictator that killed anyone that dissented.

 

[retro]

I just hope you wake up and realize this has little more to do with humanitarian ideals than as an excuse for regime change. The American Military Empire moves on.



............ Maybe I should start calling us AME instead of USA. What do ya'll think?

beat 'ya to it

But sweet... when all was said and done, we could have an American empire! We'd control the Middle East, most of Asia, and almost all of Africa. Sounds good to me. :rockon:

 

[Accountable]

beat 'ya to it

Aw heck. I've been calling us an empire for months. I meant the AME part.

 

[Xeno]

Intervening in every human rights violation is just impossible. It would be logistical/economic suicide. Also, some cultures do things we don't like, BIG SURPRISE. None of our business.








Impossible and incredibly naive. Borders, politics, countries and differences in religion and culture is what makes life interesting and what forms cultures. You're basically asking people to erase their native cultures. That is a form of genocide.

Intervening is something we do within our own nation through the media and even through our own laws. So do not act as if intervening in another nation's business is something that shall hurt if we continue to press on in a sense. Of course it shall hurt us. Of course it is a bit suicidal in most aspects, but so was The American Revolutionary War overall. Yet we still managed to win that one. Perhaps it is suicidal though, but it is better than watching people being murdered for no reason. It better than hearing that a six year old girl was forced into slavery and raped by her new "master". We are not perfect, but we can at least try to set an example. That is what I believe real humans do. We are known to destroy what we come in contact with. We are known for being selfish and greedy. I say that we start proving the rest of the world wrong. If people like you want to sit back and do nothing then that is fine. I applaud you to be quite honest, but then do exactly as the definition of the word "nothing" means. If you cannot do that then you are only contradicting yourself in your statements. We should mind our own business, right? Then why not simply mind yours when it comes to what our nation wants to do as well? It is not your problem as you have stated many times. Impossible and incredibly naive? No. It is simply laziness and carelessness that you cannot simply erase the lines that have caused this world more grief than actual peace. Interesting? Tell that to the next elderly man who shot in the head so they can make a statement to us Americans about who is in charge. If you that is your definition of interesting then to be quite honest I rest my case. One cannot change the minds of those who wish to hide in fear instead of fight for what is right. You only live once and living as a coward is not something I want to remember if one does remember their past in the end of all things.

 

[Xeno]

i have learned from my history that beans make me fart,...and my farts stink........but i eat them anyway....have i learned nothing?

(...you have learned something...)

Though stupidity is a decision...not a something you learn.​

 

[Xeno]

Forget about sovereignty? Forget about autonomy? Forget about Liberty?
We know what's best for the world, whether they know it yet or not; is that it?
We shouldn't be going around the world attacking countries that haven't attacked us so that we can get their oil, but we should be doing exactly that for humanitarian reasons? I suppose if we happen to get some extra oil in the process, that's just gravy, am I right?

Think about what you're saying.

Think about what you are saying as well. If we decide, once again, to turn a blind eye to what is going on in the world then we might as well start signing up to help them enslave their people and keep them from ever being more than what their government wants them to be. We have fought wars for lots of reasons. For once...if we are going to fight this war to its fullest...then let us fight knowing that we are trying to make a change. It is alright that we all do not agree with one another. That is what I love about America. We are allowed to speak freely and think freely, however, I shall never agree to turning my back on people who have a right to the same freedoms I have at this moment. It is simply wrong. There is nothing you can possible say to justify abandoning people who are just like us. This is not about boarders to me. This not about countries. This is about our planet. Our planet. It belongs to all of us and we have to protect it as well as the people whom live here. No matter where they are or where they are from. I am not trying to sound like a hero. I am not trying to get positive reputation points. I am not trying to have people agree with me. I am trying to tell you that helping people is the right thing to do. It proves that some of us can still give those whom have given up a bit of hope. I may be blinded to politics, but I suppose that is why I see more clearly. Then again...it is just an opinion. Whether I am wrong or right. I shall never abandon anyone simply because the masses may frown upon me for doing so.

 

[Xeno]

amazing aint it the double standard

we are criticized as a country for meddling and Tim wants us to do more

mind boggling

we need to pull back troops everywhere and protect ourselves. Because no other country gives a hoot about us except when they get our money

Rather than to press on and try to make a difference.

(...why not just say it for what it is to be quite honest...)

(...turn tail and run...)​

 

[The Man]

Looks like a good thread...skimmed over it,both views have good points.
All politics aside...the innocent civilians of the backwards nations have to be considered,,its the bottom line.

Trapped in a way of life with no escape...We..when I say we I mean modern nations cant sit by and do nothing,,that's sick.plain and simple...while it is easy to say we need to mind our own business...a few videos that will make you puke will change your mind.

Ignoring a problem doesn't fix it..these fucked up nations consist of people...these people are treated like garbage...your rights consist of nothing in many of these places....To even mention the leader is less then a positive manner can get you tortured{and I do mean tortured} for years....Kind of hard to get new leadership without a "revolution"...When the people get sick of the abuse we offer help...when the abuse gets so bad genocide occurs we jump in...Now how is that wrong?

The argument is we should mind our own business and not meddle.
If you saw 5 guys kicking a guy to death do you turn your head as it isnt your business or do put a stop to it.
Its the same principal just alot of map in between locations...and the abuse is on a much grander scale.

Since we can make a difference we should....We dont do these alone by the way, many modern nations are right there helping the US......But People just want to bitch about the US.....Whats sadder is most are from the US...They need a free plane ticket the Mideast for a fast vacation,they will have a different view after getting back home.
Argument number 2...its the oil......as much ass as we have whipped over there..we could supply our own oil..we dont........WE BUY OIL...we dont whip ass for the oil........Go fill your gas tank and sing about how cheap fuel is.

I hate to see involvement as much as the next guy,but to do nothing is just wrong..if a few years of war can change the life of millions upon millions for the future then it needs to be done..

Its easy to play armchair politician while sitting in comfort and not experiencing the abuse,just remember you ended up where you are by chance......dont be greedy....you like this way of life so help spread it around

 

[Accountable]

Think about what you are saying as well. If we decide, once again, to turn a blind eye to what is going on in the world then we might as well start signing up to help them enslave their people and keep them from ever being more than what their government wants them to be. We have fought wars for lots of reasons. For once...if we are going to fight this war to its fullest...then let us fight knowing that we are trying to make a change.

Are you really that naive? Do you really thing that the primary reason for our involvement in Libya is humanitarian?

What was your opinion about our invasion of Iraq?

p.s.: When you change your font it makes it extremely difficult for me to read your posts. I have a slight headache now because of it. I'd appreciate it if you would use Tahoma, the standard font here, or I won't be able to converse with you.

 

[Guyzerr]

Are you really that naive? Do you really thing that the primary reason for our involvement in Libya is humanitarian?

You think that oil might have something to do with it?

p.s.: When you change your font it makes it extremely difficult for me to read your posts. I have a slight headache now because of it. I'd appreciate it if you would use Tahoma, the standard font here, or I won't be able to converse with you.

I suggested that to him before but he likes it just the way it is. I can't and don't read his posts because of it.

 

[Accountable]

You think that oil might have something to do with it?

I was thinking their tourism market, but now that you mention it ... :jk

 

[Guyzerr]

I was thinking their tourism market, but now that you mention it ... :jk

They have tours of their wells and refineries????

 

[Alien Allen]

You think that oil might have something to do with it?


I suggested that to him before but he likes it just the way it is. I can't and don't read his posts because of it.

If Iraq was about oil then surely this is about oil

And I don't bother to read his posts either due to the color and the fact he does not know how to separate into paragraphs or likes to make his short posts centered. Reminds me of a guy over at TSG a while back

 

[The Man]

If one cant argue the content of a post...pick on its formatting

 

[Codrus]

(...you have learned something...)

Though stupidity is a decision...not a something you learn.​

yeah!!!,..i gots me a good edumacation in skool.

with this vast culmination of stupidity that i have gathered over the years while participating in this comedy of errors that surrounds us.............. ive decided to get dumber er er er er..., its fun ....i can say and do whatever i like without any thought of repercussions as an added bonus i don't have to worry about being insulted or insulting others with my actions or what i say because im far to stupid to know or care.

so far ive only succeeded in hitting myself in the head with the mallet once a day,...but i'll keep trying for two.

 

[Xeno]

"...and I don't bother to read his posts either due to the color and the fact he does not know how to separate into paragraphs or likes to make his short posts centered. Reminds me of a guy over at TSG a while back..."

So font, color, and formatting prevents one from responding simply because it is either too hard to read or hurts your eyes. Wow...I can see exactly why most of you want to mind your own business when it comes to other nations needing help. A couple little things get in your way and it becomes too much for you to handle. I mean that is the best argument I have ever heard when it comes to this thread. So much for being civil, huh? A bit childish, however, that is simply my own opinion. I do not wish to start a senseless argument that has nothing to do with this thread. So I shall humble myself to change my fonts, colors, and formatting just for this thread.

Though if I need to spell it out in another language or perhaps change the size then by all means let me know. This kinda reminds me of what we are talking about. Unless it is in your favor in a sense then you shall respond. You shall take action to help other nations. Then when it is not in your favor you simple avoid responses. You decided to do nothing to help another nation. I suppose you told more about yourself in that one post than in actual "About Me" Thread if one should exist. Bravo. Bravo, indeed.

 

[Xeno]

You think that oil might have something to do with it?


I suggested that to him before but he likes it just the way it is. I can't and don't read his posts because of it.

Funny how the majority have no problem reading my posts. Though I can do my best to change my fonts, colors, and formatting. One must even tend to the needs of the elderly I suppose.

 

[Xeno]

Are you really that naive? Do you really thing that the primary reason for our involvement in Libya is humanitarian?

What was your opinion about our invasion of Iraq?

p.s.: When you change your font it makes it extremely difficult for me to read your posts. I have a slight headache now because of it. I'd appreciate it if you would use Tahoma, the standard font here, or I won't be able to converse with you.

I have seen uncensored documents about The Invasion of Iraq through WikiLeaks and to be honest I found it to be a bit underhanded by the United States to claim that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction when they had none. Though I still supported the end result. Saddam Hussein was captured and executed. Of course our nation had their own agenda which I shall agree had to do with oil and most likely land as well. Having a foothold in Iraq would be ideal in all aspects, but that is where my argument and your argument differentiate overall. You see the different angles and reasonings why the United States intervenes and you are correct. Most times our nation just has a personal agendas or different motives for intervening, but so do all causes at times. That does not make the cause worthless simply because our agenda may change from time to time. It is not like our agenda has changed to killing everyone and everything in sight. The only reason it seems that way is because we have to face facts. In a manner of black and white...there are just too many villains than heroes in this world and to choose to sit back as well as do nothing is simply becoming an accomplice to every government in other nations that choose to abuse their power. This is not about politics.

This not about nations. This is not about us versus them. This about people like you and me uniting to offer freedom to people who are praying every single day for a change in this world. Sometimes a revolution is not easy to start on your own. You someone to guide you and help you rise up against a corrupt government. I suppose most just think we fit the bill so to speak. After all, we had our own revolution and succeeded where some have failed. Like say time and time again, it is the year 2011. The time for change is now. Freedom belongs to every person who is born into this world. Maybe instead of protecting that God given right in just our own nation we should protect across the world. Suicidal? Of course. Then again...so is doing absolutely nothing and waiting for something severe to happen to us once again.

P.S.

Thank you for simply asking with some civility. I shall change my fonts, colors, and formatting for this thread.

 

[Xeno]

yeah!!!,..i gots me a good edumacation in skool.

with this vast culmination of stupidity that i have gathered over the years while participating in this comedy of errors that surrounds us.............. ive decided to get dumber er er er er..., its fun ....i can say and do whatever i like without any thought of repercussions as an added bonus i don't have to worry about being insulted or insulting others with my actions or what i say because im far to stupid to know or care.

so far ive only succeeded in hitting myself in the head with the mallet once a day,...but i'll keep trying for two.

Tis ashame you are a V.I.P. User here at oTz. You truly give them a bad name to be quite honest. Though you have proved my point. Stupidity is a decision and not something you learn. It is good to know what decision you have made overall though. Rather comical...a /t/roll become a V.I.P. User here of all places. Then again, controversy does proceed this forum. Alas, let me know when you are ready to truly speak instead of putting on a show for the masses.

 

[Alien Allen]

putting on a show for the masses eh?

is that what you are doing with the fonts and settings as it makes you think you stand out

I imagine you support Obama as that too is style over substance

you want a one world govt Zeno? You want socialism? If so then expect to get bashed here. Because that would not be what the vast majority support