Is the U S shirking it’s duty to democracy ?

[Zorak]

America was feeding The Allied effort with thanks and naval vessels...I do not think FDR wanted war, I think he wanted to get the USA of the muck that was the Great Depression.

It increased trade of iron with Allied countries and provided financial aid as well. But it didn't provide tanks or navy as far as I am aware.

While the USA economy benefitted tremendously from the war, I don't think anyone could have foreseen that, and no President would attempt to improve an economy by increasing financial aid to foreign countries.
One of the figures I read was £80 billion, that America had given to Allied powers by the end of the war!

 

[Minor Axis]

true, but that was a time when the world was still trying to find its way and the allowence of the Allies to let Germany reclaim its landings and before we knew it, Hitler had seized power and took advantage. Sure in hindsight I can say this but I still don't think the US should have subscribed to the Roosevelt doctrine. Also to meddle in the affairs of other nations and not look inward is a bit silly.

my 0.02

In the context of hindsight, I agree with you.

World War 2 is a different example - America was directly attacked by Japan, despite being a non-belligerent (They were far from neutral however).
Undoubtabley FDR wanted to join the war effort, and the attack on Pearl Harbour allowed him to do so. Where as before, a large majority of American's preferred a course of non-hostility.

True.

This is a good response, IMO. Just because some countries and people think we SHOULD get involved, doesn't mean we should or even can. We are only one country and cannot save the world. It doesn't mean that we don't care, however. We should be more careful with getting involved with conflicts elsewhere particularly. We're in debt up to our eyeballs for one thing. Putting our military at risk for something that can't be solved is ridiculous. We go into things naively thinking we can change things for the better, when unusually, it makes things worse.

Naturally I agree. Just don't expect the Republican Party to ever willingly sign on to cuts in Defense. Remember they are the WWC, the War Wealthy Corporatist Party. I'll repeat, to them War IS big business.

 

[Xeno]

For sure.
Good old tribal mentality.
Many do not want to be global citizens. They prefer to be big fish in a small pond instead of playing in the ocean.
Small minds think small.

Regards
DL

Of course.

(...I just find it a bit comical how we usually claim to be "The Good Guys" in a sense and want to abandon the helpless...)

It is quite understandable that many do want their loved ones home, but should we sacrifice the lives

of the mass just for some precious moments at home? Some Americans need to face it. Wanting our

soldiers to come home is proof on how selfish we have become. A bit of a news flash though. There

are soldiers whom actually want to stay over there. Whom actually want to protect the innocent

whether they are an American Citizen or not. We have not right to speak for them. Besides, we

owe it to this world to show some compassion. Who cares what everyone else is doing or even

saying. Its about time we stop going with the flow of things and start going against the tide of

self-preservation. I believe in truth. I believe in justice. But I do not believe it should just

be an American Way of life. Freedom should not fall into this category of a concept. Everyone

deserves it all around the world. Sometimes one has to realize that not all battles nor wars

can be won in days. You have to sacrifice your personal life to make a difference at times.

This is not a "sounds good concept" though. Its the plain truth. We just never seem to

have the courage to make that difference. At least those soldiers are trying. So let them try.

It is 2011.

I think a change in this world is overdue.​

 

[All Else Failed]

I find it funny that people who want to preserve their culture and protect it from the corrosive ways of globalism are "small minded fish".

Of course.

(...I just find it a bit comical how we usually claim to be "The Good Guys" in a sense and want to abandon the helpless...)

It is quite understandable that many do want their loved ones home, but should we sacrifice the lives

of the mass just for some precious moments at home? Some Americans need to face it. Wanting our

soldiers to come home is proof on how selfish we have become. A bit of a news flash though. There

are soldiers whom actually want to stay over there. Whom actually want to protect the innocent

whether they are an American Citizen or not. We have not right to speak for them. Besides, we

owe it to this world to show some compassion. Who cares what everyone else is doing or even

saying. Its about time we stop going with the flow of things and start going against the tide of

self-preservation. I believe in truth. I believe in justice. But I do not believe it should just

be an American Way of life. Freedom should not fall into this category of a concept. Everyone

deserves it all around the world. Sometimes one has to realize that not all battles nor wars

can be won in days. You have to sacrifice your personal life to make a difference at times.

This is not a "sounds good concept" though. Its the plain truth. We just never seem to

have the courage to make that difference. At least those soldiers are trying. So let them try.

It is 2011.

I think a change in this world is overdue.​

For the love of everything decent in the world please stop formatting your posts like this


Also, you're assuming everyone in the world wants democracy . If a people want to live a certain way, let them. It is none of our business.

For sure.
Good old tribal mentality.
Many do not want to be global citizens. They prefer to be big fish in a small pond instead of playing in the ocean.
Small minds think small.

Regards
DL

"tribal mentality" exists because certain people do things differently, and enjoy things operating in a certain fashion. Trying to force everyone into one big "global tribe" is a pretty good way of destroying culture.

 

[retro]

There are some extreme cases when involvement is necessary, WWII for example. However since then we have wasted untold Trillions in efforts to control the outcome of conflicts and political movements around the world. We just can't afford it any more...

Mark it on your calendars folks, MA and I agree about something.

:willy_nilly:

 

[Xeno]

I find it funny that people who want to preserve their culture and protect it from the corrosive ways of globalism are "small minded fish".



For the love of everything decent in the world please stop formatting your posts like this


Also, you're assuming everyone in the world wants democracy . If a people want to live a certain way, let them. It is none of our business.




"tribal mentality" exists because certain people do things differently, and enjoy things operating in a certain fashion. Trying to force everyone into one big "global tribe" is a pretty good way of destroying culture.

I do not assume anything.

Freedom has nothing to do with democracy.

Compassion has nothing to do with democracy.

(...doing what is right has nothing to do with democracy...)

(...one should not make excuses for wanting to turn a blind eye...)

(...there is difference between culture and control...)

*My Format Is My Format*​

 

[Zorak]

I do not assume anything.

Freedom has nothing to do with democracy.

Compassion has nothing to do with democracy.

(...doing what is right has nothing to do with democracy...)

(...one should not make excuses for wanting to turn a blind eye...)

(...there is difference between culture and control...)

*My Format Is My Format*​

You equate compassion to militarial intervention? :24:

 

[Xeno]

You equate compassion to militarial intervention? :24:

Should we just go to other countries with picket signs then?

(...compassion is not just show with words...)

(...try action...)​

 

[Zorak]

Should we just go to other countries with picket signs then?
​

We shouldn't go over there at all. :shrug:
Remember, half the people of Libya are loyal to Gadaffi; you help one set and you just alienate yourselves from the other.

 

[All Else Failed]

I do not assume anything.

Freedom has nothing to do with democracy.

Compassion has nothing to do with democracy.

(...doing what is right has nothing to do with democracy...)

(...one should not make excuses for wanting to turn a blind eye...)

(...there is difference between culture and control...)

*My Format Is My Format*​

Well those are nice platitudes, but "freedom" as most people think of it as is largely a modern, Western democratic concept. Sure, there are forms of democracy which are exclusive, but then again all systems are exclusive.

Culture is a form of control, per se, since culture usually has a set of right and wrong. There is nothing wrong with "control" (for the lack of a better word) when dealing with large populations.


and yeah the way you format your posts is annoying to look at.

Should we just go to other countries with picket signs then?

(...compassion is not just show with words...)

(...try action...)​

No, we probably shouldn't invade them in the first place.


if we were to "right" all the "wrongs" in the world it would totally destroy our nation just in terms of logistics.

 

[Xeno]

We shouldn't go over there at all. :shrug:
Remember, half the people of Libya are loyal to Gadaffi; you help one set and you just alienate yourselves from the other.

We have already done that when it comes to North and South Korea. You would have us do nothing and mind our own business. That is a simply a sign of how selfish some of us have become in a sense. It is rather ironic how people call for action and want a change, but only here. Not anywhere else. Just here. Forget the rest of the world. Let us just focus on us. What a familiar concept. That is what we did in a sense with World War One. Then again, the Germans sank the Lusitania. Should we simply wait till something happens to us for us to intervene once more? Those whom ignore history are doomed to repeat it once more.

 

[Xeno]

Well those are nice platitudes, but "freedom" as most people think of it as is largely a modern, Western democratic concept. Sure, there are forms of democracy which are exclusive, but then again all systems are exclusive.

Culture is a form of control, per se, since culture usually has a set of right and wrong. There is nothing wrong with "control" (for the lack of a better word) when dealing with large populations.


and yeah the way you format your posts is annoying to look at.





No, we probably shouldn't invade them in the first place.


if we were to "right" all the "wrongs" in the world it would totally destroy our nation just in terms of logistics.

Though if we ignore the wrongs in the world then we are just as guilty as those whom commit them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I am willing to be reasonable with my formatting. I suppose one must be when writing long paragraphs. My apologies overall.

 

[All Else Failed]

Though if we ignore the wrongs in the world then we are just as guilty as those whom commit them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, I am willing to be reasonable with my formatting. I suppose one must be when writing long paragraphs. My apologies overall.

So are you suggesting we invade every place that have inhumane conditions or governments we don't like?

 

[Zorak]

We have already done that when it comes to North and South Korea. You would have us do nothing and mind our own business. That is a simply a sign of how selfish some of us have become in a sense. It is rather ironic how people call for action and want a change, but only here. Not anywhere else. Just here. Forget the rest of the world. Let us just focus on us. What a familiar concept. That is what we did in a sense with World War One. Then again, the Germans sank the Lusitania. Should we simply wait till something happens to us for us to intervene once more? Those whom ignore history are doomed to repeat it once more.

I'm glad you used the example of Korea lol.... What did that war achieve exactly? The misnoming "demilitarised zone", and an extension to the communist dictatorship in the North.

You end on a lovely catchline, but fail to recognise it.

 

[Xeno]

So are you suggesting we invade every place that have inhumane conditions or governments we don't like?

You cannot be looked upon as inhumane and a government. You are one or the other and yes I do believe we should intervene on what is inhumane to people that suffer from starvation, famine, and slavery. Just because certain people in high positions deem themselves a government does not make it truly so in a sense. A government is meant to protect its people and help them prosper overall. If a government chooses to abuse its own people then a government it is not. Now I know most would say our government abuses us at times. Though look at us really overall. We are not suffering like people as bad as other people that have absolutely nothing. We seem to bitch and moan about little things here while others want what we already have. Freedom, food, water, a home, and the right to believe in whatever they want to believe in. The fact remains that we need to make a change in this world. Forget about politics. Forget about boarders. Forget about countries. Forget about differences in religion or culture. Focus on that people from around the world are looking for hope. Perhaps we are not the best example, but we can at least try to be one. If we choose to ignore what is going on around us then we might as well not even exist. What good is a heart if it cannot be open to everyone? This is our planet. I believe we have the right to make a change even if there are those who want things to remain the same. I do advocate words over weapons, but sometimes you need to be willingly to defend your words by any means necessary. Most people tell us to worry about our own nation. Fine. If we are willing to turn our backs on the rest of the world. Then I would hate to see what those same people have in store for our own nation. Change never came easy. Its not suppose to.

 

[Xeno]

I'm glad you used the example of Korea lol.... What did that war achieve exactly? The misnoming "demilitarised zone", and an extension to the communist dictatorship in the North.

You end on a lovely catchline, but fail to recognise it.

History only repeats itself when you learn nothing from it.

(...I believe we have learned not to make the same mistake...) ​

 

[All Else Failed]

You cannot be looked upon as inhumane and a government. You are one or the other and yes I do believe we should intervene on what is inhumane to people that suffer from starvation, famine, and slavery. Just because certain people in high positions deem themselves a government does not make it truly so in a sense. A government is meant to protect its people and help them prosper overall. If a government chooses to abuse its own people then a government it is not. Now I know most would say our government abuses us at times. Though look at us really overall. We are not suffering like people as bad as other people that have absolutely nothing. We seem to bitch and moan about little things here while others want what we already have. Freedom, food, water, a home, and the right to believe in whatever they want to believe in. The fact remains that we need to make a change in this world. Forget about politics. Forget about boarders. Forget about countries. Forget about differences in religion or culture. Focus on that people from around the world are looking for hope. Perhaps we are not the best example, but we can at least try to be one. If we choose to ignore what is going on around us then we might as well not even exist. What good is a heart if it cannot be open to everyone? This is our planet. I believe we have the right to make a change even if there are those who want things to remain the same. I do advocate words over weapons, but sometimes you need to be willingly to defend your words by any means necessary. Most people tell us to worry about our own nation. Fine. If we are willing to turn our backs on the rest of the world. Then I would hate to see what those same people have in store for our own nation. Change never came easy. Its not suppose to.

Intervening in every human rights violation is just impossible. It would be logistical/economic suicide. Also, some cultures do things we don't like, BIG SURPRISE. None of our business.

Forget about politics. Forget about boarders. Forget about countries. Forget about differences in religion or culture.

Impossible and incredibly naive. Borders, politics, countries and differences in religion and culture is what makes life interesting and what forms cultures. You're basically asking people to erase their native cultures. That is a form of genocide.

 

[retro]

So it should be the responsibility of the United States to depose every dictator or government that abuses or suppresses the rights of their citizens? Damn, that's quite a tall order.

I guess we'll be heading into...

Dictatorships
Central African Republic
Congo (Kinshasa)
Congo (Brazzaville)
Equatorial Guinea
Egypt
Ethiopia
Pakistan
Myanmar (aka Burma)
Kazakstan
Libya
Sudan
Turkmenistan

One Party Governments
Cameroon
China
Cuba
North Korea
Laos
Vietnam
Syria

Theocracies
Iran

Royal Dictatorships
Saudi Arabia
UAE
Kuwait
Vietnam
Ethiopia
United Arab Emirates
Jordan
Morocco
Bhutan
Brunei
Bahrain
Oman
Qatar
Swaziland
Nepal
Malaysia

Man, we'd better ramp up military spending and re-institute the draft.

 

[retro]

Man, we'd better ramp up military spending and re-institute the draft.

But sweet... when all was said and done, we could have an American empire! We'd control the Middle East, most of Asia, and almost all of Africa. Sounds good to me. :rockon:

 

[retro]

But sweet... when all was said and done, we could have an American empire! We'd control the Middle East, most of Asia, and almost all of Africa. Sounds good to me. :rockon:

and we'd never need to worry about oil again either. :clap