Iraq, What's The Answer?

[DannyK]

That will never happen, you already get their oil, lol

DannyK = ownt

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Personally I think Saudi is as much to blame as any, you cannot tell me that they have not only offered up to the tune of millions, but profited ten fold from the disruption.

And anyone who feels that Bush is not responsible is just blind, plain blind. Do you really think that a Vice President, who spent most of his entire career as a public servant save but a few years spent with Halliburton who by the way offered $30 million AFTER he got the nod for Vice, do you really think a member of the executive branch of this country who recieves a lot of money that big is not going to err to the side of oil?

How about the CIA agent who was outed in the midst of Nuclear Proliferation work with IRAN, because her husband was speaking otwardly about Bush's bad decisions and shady handshake deals for profit. In any other word that would be treason.

What good have we done when the smoke settles? Have we stopped the insurgency? No, because the country that we invaded is comprised mainly of insurgents, leftovers from yesteryear when they had some millitary might before we sent Sadaam in for the sole purpose of shutting Iran down. Or dis we all forget that Sadaam was the brainchild of the US government to begin with?

If you have any real knowledge of what happens when you invade a country you know you can never fully pull out, you basically have adopted all the cultural and developmental issues that came in the package deal. Let's face it, do any of you actually give a shit about what happened in Iraq before you were told that it needed to be conquered to defend us? Were you willing to lay down your life, or your childrens to oppose a dictator that your own government set loose?

Pure and simple fact, if the Republican party didn't sense the seedy, greed imbibed grip over control of our government slipping away, there would be no plan to leave Iraq.

Bush/Cheney knew this was going to be a financial windfall for big oil, Cheney knew he could hide behind the executive privilege and not only hide, but destroy millions of documents, and emails that are supposed to be available to an oversight committe, all destroyed or behind locked doors of safes. They know damn well what will happen if light is shined on the tyranny in our own political system.

The solution is pull rank, get this oil for food case running, call GW out now that his little buddy McLellan has admitted that he was mislead about outing the CIA agent, start sifting through what emails are left, tell Cheney to go fuck himself and crack open the books with all the nasty little secrets and throw their asses in GITMO.

Frankly I am ashamed that in this day and age, people will still stand behind people that they know in their heart is corrupt, just to save face. I love our troops and I pray for them and the families, God bless them all, every one. But I hope GW and Cheney, Rumsfeld, and a few other of them burn in eternal hell for selling lies, taking profit over the people of their own country.

My .02...lol

 

[All Else Failed]

An organization like al-Qaeda is not going to be confined to one spot, Bin Laden himself was from Sudan. Knowing the state of the region in my mind there was reason to believe that the area had some of the people we were looking for. As far as invasion goes, if you never look how are you going to find what you're looking for. Its not us that are spawning the terrorists, its other terrorists who are playing on the emotions and beliefs of the people of the area. They are being brainwashed into believing that Allah wants them to blow themselves up for the nation of Islam. Even if we were not there they would still be leading unprovoked attacks on the rest of the world. If the leaders are not found then it will never stop. Also, Americans were revolutionaries not terrorists. I agree that the two are only titles and the ideals behind them walk almost hand in hand, but fighting to make a new independent nation with your people's best interest in mind is way different than tricking your people (even worse, saying there are virgins or whatever are waiting for you after death) into committing suicide for the purpose of killing innocent people that for some reason you view as enemies. If you think about it you'll find its completely different.

So just have widespread, wanton invasions of sovereign countries on a whim? Thats madness, and would eventually destroy our country.

We ARE spawning terrorists. Its common sense. The more we stay there, and the more that we impose our brand of Democracy on people, and the more people disagree with our presence there, people will be more likely to take part in terrorist actions against us to get us out. Even if we find allllllll the leaders of these groups, an kill them, the groups will live on. It doesn't matter if the leader is killed, the structure of a terrorist group isn't some uniform, hierarchy. Its a multi-regional organization with a LOT of local leaders and individuals that can act alone. You would have to invade pretty much every country on the planet to get them all.

 

[DannyK]

Personally I think Saudi is as much to blame as any, you cannot tell me that they have not only offered up to the tune of millions, but profited ten fold from the disruption.
I agree with this and this

And anyone who feels that Bush is not responsible is just blind, plain blind. Do you really think that a Vice President, who spent most of his entire career as a public servant save but a few years spent with Halliburton who by the way offered $30 million AFTER he got the nod for Vice, do you really think a member of the executive branch of this country who recieves a lot of money that big is not going to err to the side of oil?

How about the CIA agent who was outed in the midst of Nuclear Proliferation work with IRAN, because her husband was speaking outwardly about Bush's bad decisions and shady handshake deals for profit. In any other word that would be treason.

What good have we done when the smoke settles? Have we stopped the insurgency? No, because the country that we invaded is comprised mainly of insurgents, leftovers from yesteryear when they had some millitary might before we sent Sadaam in for the sole purpose of shutting Iran down. Or did we all forget that Sadaam was the brainchild of the US government to begin with?

If you have any real knowledge of what happens when you invade a country you know you can never fully pull out, you basically have adopted all the cultural and developmental issues that came in the package deal. Let's face it, do any of you actually give a shit about what happened in Iraq before you were told that it needed to be conquered to defend us? Were you willing to lay down your life, or your children's to oppose a dictator that your own government set loose?

Pure and simple fact, if the Republican party didn't sense the seedy, greed imbibed grip over control of our government slipping away, there would be no plan to leave Iraq.

Bush/Cheney knew this was going to be a financial windfall for big oil, Cheney knew he could hide behind the executive privilege and not only hide, but destroy millions of documents, and emails that are supposed to be available to an oversight committe, all destroyed or behind locked doors of safes. They know damn well what will happen if light is shined on the tyranny in our own political system.


The solution is pull rank, get this oil for food case running, call GW out now that his little buddy McLellan has admitted that he was mislead about outing the CIA agent, start sifting through what emails are left, tell Cheney to go fuck himself and crack open the books with all the nasty little secrets and throw their asses in GITMO.

Frankly I am ashamed that in this day and age, people will still stand behind people that they know in their heart is corrupt, just to save face. I love our troops and I pray for them and the families, God bless them all, every one. But I hope GW and Cheney, Rumsfeld, and a few other of them burn in eternal hell for selling lies, taking profit over the people of their own country.

My .02...lol

How is Bush responsible? You do understand that congress has to declare war, right? Saddam was a tyrant. Napoleon, Robespierre and Caligula were tyrants. Bush is not. The government is one of the people, by the people and for the people so it is the people who are corrupt. As far as oil goes, without oil America will die. its the government's job to protect us and letting thousands of people die because we can't get food to them all because we dont want to hurt the feelings of anyone else is not protecting us.

 

[All Else Failed]

How is Bush responsible? You do understand that congress has to declare war, right? Saddam was a tyrant. Napoleon, Robespierre and Caligula were tyrants. Bush is not. The government is one of the people, by the people and for the people so it is the people who are corrupt. As far as oil goes, without oil America will die. its the government's job to protect us and letting thousands of people die because we can't get food to them all because we dont want to hurt the feelings of anyone else is not protecting us.

They do not have to declare war at all for a president to have a war. The last time they declared war was WW2 if I remember correctly.


Yes, America needs oil to survive, and so does every superpower. That is why we are in the middle east, for the most part. But, that really isn't an excuse to treat the world like your own little gas pump where you think you are entitled to all of it.

 

[DannyK]

They do not have to declare war at all for a president to have a war. The last time they declared war was WW2 if I remember correctly.


Yes, America needs oil to survive, and so does every superpower. That is why we are in the middle east, for the most part. But, that really isn't an excuse to treat the world like your own little gas pump where you think you are entitled to all of it.

but they did. Senators Clinton, Obama and many others voted to go.

True but its just a little perk that the people were fighting just happen to be in possession of what we need. Don't blame America for taking the spoils of war, people have been doing that for centuries.

 

[Peter Parka]

but they did. Senators Clinton, Obama and many others voted to go.

True but its just a little perk that the people were fighting just happen to be in possession of what we need. Don't blame America for taking the spoils of war, people have been doing that for centuries.

The war was illegal. It was an invation of a non threatening country. So with that in mind, I'd say the allies have no rights to spoils which they obtained illegally.

 

[DannyK]

The war was illegal. It was an invasion of a non threatening country. So with that in mind, I'd say the allies have no rights to spoils which they obtained illegally.

It wasn't Illegal at all, the UN went in at the beginning. And I highly doubt that the combined forces of the world are afraid of America so much to the point that they would look the other way while we violated the rules of war.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

When the UN opposed Bush he told them to fuck themselves and went in anyways, which might explain the limited support almost universally across the globe. How many countries are actually supporting us Danny?

 

[DannyK]

If the UN wont enforce then how can it truley be said this is illegal.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

If the UN wont enforce then how can it truley be said this is illegal.

The UN is as corrupt as they come, and they will not support something illegal that does not give them an end

 

[DannyK]

And as far as support goes I haven't heard at least of any other countries formally requesting us to stop.

 

[DannyK]

Wait, So why follow the UN's Rules if its the most corrupt thing out there?

 

[All Else Failed]

but they did. Senators Clinton, Obama and many others voted to go.

True but its just a little perk that the people were fighting just happen to be in possession of what we need. Don't blame America for taking the spoils of war, people have been doing that for centuries.

They never declared war, officially, though.


Oh yes, they just happen to have oil. The middle east *IS* about oil, and we are fighting over it to gain footholds in oil rich regions. Plus, even if it was not about oil, and we conquered a country that happened to have oil, it would be a massive asshole move to just steal their oil.

 

[All Else Failed]

It wasn't Illegal at all, the UN went in at the beginning. And I highly doubt that the combined forces of the world are afraid of America so much to the point that they would look the other way while we violated the rules of war.

It was illegal since it completely violated international law that we agreed to abide by when we joined the UN.

 

[Peter Parka]

And as far as support goes I haven't heard at least of any other countries formally requesting us to stop.

Do you not read or see the news? There was been widespread condemnation of the war from many quarters, including in our own countries. We invaded a non threatening country. Would you not consider it illegal if a non threated by the USA country invaded the USA simply on hunches and lies?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

And as far as support goes I haven't heard at least of any other countries formally requesting us to stop.

So you never heard the Brits ask us to stop?

Russia, Germany, France. Ehh but that's only a few, combined they represent what used to be the most brutal fighting forces in history.

Who cares anyways, Gore says ManBearPig is going to eat us all anyhoo.

The polar icecaps are melting, I'm buying a blow up raft...thewy don't need gasoline

 

[All Else Failed]

If the UN wont enforce then how can it truley be said this is illegal.

Because there are laws

we broke the laws

it is illegal.




but its not like the US cares about laws anyways.

 

[DannyK]

They never declared war, officially, though.


Oh yes, they just happen to have oil. The middle east *IS* about oil, and we are fighting over it to gain footholds in oil rich regions. Plus, even if it was not about oil, and we conquered a country that happened to have oil, it would be a massive asshole move to just steal their oil.

which is why the US is trying to make Iraq a functional Democracy to trade with.

 

[All Else Failed]

which is why the US is trying to make Iraq a functional Democracy to trade with.

Irrelevant. We went in for oil and now where's just trying to make it seem ok by forcing our brand of democracy on them to be good little American partners in trade.