God cannot love or be Love.

[doombug]

"Discussion"? Is that what you think you are doing here? I'm amused by your delusions - carry on. opcorn2:

It is difficult trying to have a real discussion with these folks. It is easier than having a discussion with you though. All you do is post smack and talk trash.

 

[BornReady]

Of course BR accusing God of murder is an Atheist myth.

Actually not. Atheists don't believe God is responsible for natural disasters. That is a religious belief, although a minority one now days. This is puzzling to me. It makes their God look bad and there is no reason for it.

When atheists call God a murderer (something I personally don't do), they are playing devil's advocate. They are trying to get believers to think about their belief. Most believers in this day and age realize God is not responsible for natural disasters. Instead of trying to defend God for something he didn't do, they should simply say hardly anyone believes that anymore and move on. If I remember right, that is what Tuffdisc did and he's exactly right.

 

[doombug]

Actually not. Atheists don't believe God is responsible for natural disasters. That is a religious belief, although a minority one now days. This is puzzling to me. It makes their God look bad and there is no reason for it.

When atheists call God a murderer (something I personally don't do), they are playing devil's advocate. They are trying to get believers to think about their belief. Most believers in this day and age realize God is not responsible for natural disasters. Instead of trying to defend God for something he didn't do, they should simply say hardly anyone believes that anymore and move on. If I remember right, that is what Tuffdisc did and he's exactly right.

That's a good way to look at it BR but some Atheists do hold this belief. Whether they are using it to make believers think about thier faith or not it is incorrect nonsense.

 

[BornReady]

That's a good way to look at it BR but some Atheists do hold this belief.

Technically a person who believes God is a murderer should not call himself an atheist. You pretty much have to exist in order to kill someone. I'm sure you're right though. This is an example of how illogical people can be.

 

[retro]

By not addressing anyone anything can be "implied".

So you are FORCED to make someone look like an idiot yet you VOLUNTARILY make yourself look moronic....hmm interesting. I guess you will use the same wit you have used in this thread where you accuse someone of being a victim of a pedophile? Stinging wit that is(yawn).... It ranks right up there with "I know you are but what am I?".....:24:

Whatever you say champ. I actually don't have to make you look like a bigger idiot than you've acted so far... You did that all on your own. Congratulations. See what happens when you assume things. You make an ass of yourself. Fortunately the idiom didn't continue on to me though.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Technically a person who believes God is a murderer should not call himself an atheist. You pretty much have to exist in order to kill someone. I'm sure you're right though. This is an example of how illogical people can be.

What? Are you saying that everyone who believes in God is a murderer? That is the silliest thing I have heard from you

 

[HK]

What? Are you saying that everyone who believes in God is a murderer? That is the silliest thing I have heard from you

No, he's saying that if someone actually believes God is a murderer, and therefore believes that God exists, then they can hardly call themselves an atheist since the whole definition of an atheist is someone who does not believe God exists.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Orite

 

[Greatest I am]

What? Are you saying that everyone who believes in God is a murderer? That is the silliest thing I have heard from you

How could you possibly get that from what is written.
That is not what he said at all.
Care to break it down?

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

Whatever you say champ. I actually don't have to make you look like a bigger idiot than you've acted so far... You did that all on your own. Congratulations. See what happens when you assume things. You make an ass of yourself. Fortunately the idiom didn't continue on to me though.

Nice dodging. Now run away, you look cowardly enough as it is. Threatening and then running. hahaha!

 

[Minor Axis]

And who commits worldwide genocide. Give examples if you can.

Noah's Ark.

Well GIA you have done it again. Taking scripture out of context and reading what you want into it. OK, human love and God's love is not the same. GIA wants to redefine what the bible says but he is wrong as usual.

God is Love: How does God Define Love? The Bible tells us that "God is Love" (1 John 4:8). But how can we even begin to understand that truth? There are many passages in the Bible that give us God's definition of love. The most well known verse is John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." So one way God defines love is in the act of giving. However, what God gave (or should we say, "who" God gave) was not a mere gift-wrapped present; God sacrificed His only Son so that we, who put our faith in His Son, will not spend eternity separated from Him. This is an amazing love, because we are the ones who choose to reject God, yet it's God who mends the separation through His intense personal sacrifice, and all we have to do is accept His gift.

Another great verse about God's love is found in Romans 5:8, "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." In this verse and in John 3:16, we find no conditions placed on God's love for us. God doesn't say, "as soon as you clean up your act, I'll love you; " nor does He say, "I'll sacrifice my Son if you promise to love Me." In fact, in Romans 5:8, we find just the opposite. God wants us to know that His love is unconditional, so He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to die for us while we were still unlovable sinners. We didn't have to get clean, and we didn't have to make any promises to God before we could experience His love. His love for us has always existed, and because of that, He did all the giving and sacrificing long before we were even aware that we needed His love.

God is Love: It's Unconditional God is Love, and His love is very different from human love. God's love is unconditional, and it's not based on feelings or emotions. He doesn't love us because we're lovable or because we make Him feel good; He loves us because He is love. He created us to have a loving relationship with Him, and He sacrificed His own Son (who also willingly died for us) to restore that relationship.

And you have done it again, thiest! The original post is about Adam and Eve. God did not act like he loved them. As the story was written, God did not act like a superior being at all, but more like a selfish, domineering, impatient, immature baby. It is important to note, this was written when mans' perception of God was thunder and lighting, hell and damnation for defiance. The point of this human concocted story is that if you defy God you are going to be punished and tries to explain why the human race spends so much time suffering.

You said that God's love is very different from Human love and that it's not based on feelings or emotions as if you understand what motivates God. So what do you think God's love is based on, God's need to domineer and keep us pinned under his thumb? Love, a human emotion, is a term that only makes sense to humans if it is love we can understand and empathize with. We don't relate to a praying mantis's version of love if it is to bite your head off for lunch...

As far as your other quotes, God sacrifices nothing. It you want to believe in Jesus, then Jesus was sent down specifically as a sacrifice, all part of God's plan, and Jesus today is partying in heaven. So what sacrifice is that exactly? And what exactly did it accomplish in humans' relationship to God? The Human Race had sin. Upon Jesus's death, our sins were eradicated and then...? Why on Earth would killing off God's Son be a plus for the Human Race? This is the kind of religious mumbo-jumbo that requires the complete jettisoning of reasoned thought complicated by Christians' description of God's love as a love, with no room for allowances, for no mistakes, and no give and take. It is not love at all. And making excuses for God by saying it's God's form of love is very amusing to anyone who wants to spend a minute thinking about it.

 

[doombug]

Noah's Ark.

If you read the story it seems mankind wasn't worth saving so God did a "do over". If someone builds something there is a point it becomes unsalvageable therefore starting over is the best thing to do.

And you have done it again, thiest! The original post is about Adam and Eve. God did not act like he loved them. As the story was written, God did not act like a superior being at all, but more like a selfish, domineering, impatient, immature baby. It is important to note, this was written when mans' perception of God was thunder and lighting, hell and damnation for defiance. The point of this human concocted story is that if you defy God you are going to be punished and tries to explain why the human race spends so much time suffering.

No doubt Adam and Eve were mentioned in the OP but I see the main theme as God's love.

I see other implications in the story of A&E like how humans can make foolish choices. A&E could have stayed in Eden without the presence of evil but the decision they made brought consequences.

You said that God's love is very different from Human love and that it's not based on feelings or emotions as if you understand what motivates God. So what do you think God's love is based on, God's need to domineer and keep us pinned under his thumb? Love, a human emotion, is a term that only makes sense to humans if it is love we can understand and empathize with. We don't relate to a praying mantis's version of love if it is to bite your head off for lunch...

Sad that you see it that way. God doesn't keep us "pinned under his thumb" because we have free will and can make our own choices. It is up to humans to choose to love God because, as I understand it, this is what He wants. If we choose otherwise why would God protect us or want us in His presence. I can't believe I understand more about Christianity than some of you folks do. Those who claim to have studied it apparently are making false claims.

As far as your other quotes, God sacrifices nothing. It you want to believe in Jesus, then Jesus was sent down specifically as a sacrifice, all part of God's plan, and Jesus today is partying in heaven. So what sacrifice is that exactly? And what exactly did it accomplish in humans' relationship to God? The Human Race had sin. Upon Jesus's death, our sins were eradicated and then...? Why on Earth would killing off God's Son be a plus for the Human Race? This is the kind of religious mumbo-jumbo that requires the complete jettisoning of reasoned thought complicated by Christians' description of God's love as a love, with no room for allowances, for no mistakes, and no give and take. It is not love at all. And making excuses for God by saying it's God's form of love is very amusing to anyone who wants to spend a minute thinking about it.

How do you know God sacrifices nothing? Jesus not only died but suffered, is that not sacrifice? I would think Jesus came to earth as an example to humans also. As far as "no room for allowances" or "mistakes" I think Jesus took care of alot of that. I don't think you really understand Christianity at all. You don't have to accept it to understand it. I understand where other religions are coming from without being a devout believer. You seem to have issues with Christianity in particular. If you can think of God as being the powerful being that He is then you should have no problem with these concepts at all. You seem to be trying to convince yourself that you are correct.

 

[Minor Axis]

If you read the story it seems mankind wasn't worth saving so God did a "do over". If someone builds something there is a point it becomes unsalvageable therefore starting over is the best thing to do.

You asked for an example and then glossed over it, rationalizing genocide (cause God knows best) when one was provided.

No doubt Adam and Eve were mentioned in the OP but I see the main theme as God's love.

I see other implications in the story of A&E like how humans can make foolish choices. A&E could have stayed in Eden without the presence of evil but the decision they made brought consequences.

I guess the simple nature of this story teaches you a lesson, respect for God. Figures... :smiley24:

Sad that you see it that way. God doesn't keep us "pinned under his thumb" because we have free will and can make our own choices. It is up to humans to choose to love God because, as I understand it, this is what He wants. If we choose otherwise why would God protect us or want us in His presence. I can't believe I understand more about Christianity than some of you folks do. Those who claim to have studied it apparently are making false claims.

When are you going to figure it out, I don't see it that way? This is a discussion of hypotheticals based on fairy tales. Pinned under God's thumb is one of the many possibilities as put forth by the Old Testament.

How do you know God sacrifices nothing? Jesus not only died but suffered, is that not sacrifice? I would think Jesus came to earth as an example to humans also. As far as "no room for allowances" or "mistakes" I think Jesus took care of alot of that. I don't think you really understand Christianity at all. You don't have to accept it to understand it. I understand where other religions are coming from without being a devout believer. You seem to have issues with Christianity in particular. If you can think of God as being the powerful being that He is then you should have no problem with these concepts at all. You seem to be trying to convince yourself that you are correct.

No room for allowances was directly related to the A&E story. Please make some excuses for that.

Don't apply your standards to me. I've stated on a multitude of occasions I don't know exactly what to make of my existence, but I can look at a 2000 year old book and comfortably question the specifics it puts forth. I was raised in Christianity. I know it better than any other religion so it's my right to critique it. The problem I have is when human beings create stories to explain the unexplainable. You take it for face value without question. That's your problem. If you were a little open minded you might encourage some questions instead of trying to squelch them.

 

[doombug]

You asked for an example and then glossed over it, rationalizing genocide (cause God knows best) when one was provided.

And now you have a problem with rational thought? hmmm...interesting. I guess reasoning is only useful to you when it agrees with what you believe. Nice hypocrisy.

I guess the simple nature of this story teaches you a lesson, respect for God. Figures... :smiley24:

It also teaches me how foolish humans can be by making dumb choices. I'm not so sure that God had a choice with us free willed beings choosing to know evil. I think since we made the decision then it required an existence where we couldn't be as close to God. I don't think he wanted to be around sin and evil so humans had to downgrade to different neighborhood.

When are you going to figure it out, I don't see it that way? This is a discussion of hypotheticals based on fairy tales. Pinned under God's thumb is one of the many possibilities.

Not if you read and understand the bible. Plenty of examples of people making stupid choices. No one is "pinned under God's thumb".

No room for allowances was directly related to the A&E story. Please make some excuses for that.

I explained that above. I don't see where God had much choice. Free willed humans decided to know good and evil. I don't think God could live in such a neighborhood. Welcome to Earth.

Don't apply your standards to me. I've stated on a multitude of occasions I don't know exactly what to make of my existence, but I can look at a 2000 year old book and comfortably question the specifics it puts forth. I was raised in Christianity. I know it better than any other religion so it's my right to critique it. The problem I have is when human beings create stories to explain the unexplainable. You take it for face value without question. That's your problem. If you were a little open minded you might encourage some questions instead of trying to squelch them.

hahaha! You don't like when I apply my standards to you and yet you so desperately want to label me. Funny stuff. I don't think you fully understand Christianity. Maybe you were "raised" in it but I doubt you studies it with an open mind. You were probably "told" what to believe and that is a shame. Everyone should look with an open mind and decide for themselves.

I do encourage questions but I also don't tolerate much lies. What is the point of questioning anything from a dishonest stand point?

 

[Minor Axis]

And now you have a problem with rational thought? hmmm...interesting. I guess reasoning is only useful to you when it agrees with what you believe. Nice hypocrisy.

When you improve your reading comprehension we can continue the discussion. There is a difference between being rational and rationalizing, look it up, lol.

I do encourage questions but I also don't tolerate much lies. What is the point of questioning anything from a dishonest stand point?

Stop kidding yourself. You are completely shutoff from any opinion that does not chive with your religious opinion, calling them lies and accusing the contributors of dishonesty. You've been very consistent in this approach.

 

[doombug]

When you improve your reading comprehension we can continue the discussion. There is a difference between being rational and rationalizing, look it up, lol.

Whatever MA, you seem to be making excuses now and backing away.

Stop kidding yourself. You are completely shutoff from any opinion that does not chive with your religious opinion, calling them lies and accusing the contributors of dishonesty. You've been very consistent in this approach.

No, I am aware of what is true and what isn't. That is why you are backing away because you know you are wrong just as others have been.

It is easy to be consistent. The truth is always consistent.

 

[Minor Axis]

Whatever MA, you seem to be making excuses now and backing away.



No, I am aware of what is true and what isn't. That is why you are backing away because you know you are wrong just as others have been.

It is easy to be consistent. The truth is always consistent.

I admit you have stamina, something all good theists need, but I'm getting fatigued with your bullshit. Until tomorrow.

 

[doombug]

I admit you have stamina, something all good theists need, but I'm getting fatigued with your bullshit. Until tomorrow.

Alright. Close those peepers and get some rest. You work really hard at clinging to your delusions so I am sure you must be bushed!

 

[Greatest I am]

Noah's Ark.



And you have done it again, thiest! The original post is about Adam and Eve. God did not act like he loved them. As the story was written, God did not act like a superior being at all, but more like a selfish, domineering, impatient, immature baby. It is important to note, this was written when mans' perception of God was thunder and lighting, hell and damnation for defiance. The point of this human concocted story is that if you defy God you are going to be punished and tries to explain why the human race spends so much time suffering.

You said that God's love is very different from Human love and that it's not based on feelings or emotions as if you understand what motivates God. So what do you think God's love is based on, God's need to domineer and keep us pinned under his thumb? Love, a human emotion, is a term that only makes sense to humans if it is love we can understand and empathize with. We don't relate to a praying mantis's version of love if it is to bite your head off for lunch...

As far as your other quotes, God sacrifices nothing. It you want to believe in Jesus, then Jesus was sent down specifically as a sacrifice, all part of God's plan, and Jesus today is partying in heaven. So what sacrifice is that exactly? And what exactly did it accomplish in humans' relationship to God? The Human Race had sin. Upon Jesus's death, our sins were eradicated and then...? Why on Earth would killing off God's Son be a plus for the Human Race? This is the kind of religious mumbo-jumbo that requires the complete jettisoning of reasoned thought complicated by Christians' description of God's love as a love, with no room for allowances, for no mistakes, and no give and take. It is not love at all. And making excuses for God by saying it's God's form of love is very amusing to anyone who wants to spend a minute thinking about it.

+ 1

Regards
DL

 

[CityGirl]

If man wasn't worth saving, and God decided on a do-over, why did he use defective parts? If man is by nature "sinful" what made God think he would get different results by eradicating all but 8 people (assuming Noah's sons were not polygamists )? That sounds like Einstein's definition of insanity.