Gnostic or agnostic

[BornReady]

The way you're phrasing it makes it sound like anyone who isn't an atheist or a theist just doesn't know which they are.

You either believe in a god(s), don't believe in any gods, or don't know if you believe in any gods. Of course there are varying degrees of belief from very weak to very strong. But they're all belief. You want to talk about knowing. But that's a different thing. I'm talking about belief here.

Whereas I would say that I know exactly what I am. I'm not an atheist or a theist, I'm agnostic

So are 90% of all atheists and theists. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Does that make sense? I feel like we're getting lost in semantics here when we do probably have very similar ideas.

Yeah, it's semantics. Many people don't understand what most people mean when they say they're an atheist. They think that means they know there are no gods. It doesn't. They think atheists are not agnostics. Again, not true. 90% of them are.

 

[Tim]

Maybe this will help...

Agnostic only means a person who denies or doubts the possibility of ultimate knowledge in some area of study. That does not mean it has to be about god or a supreme being. You can be an agnostic in relation to the big bang. It's just that the word has been associated with god.

So when you say that you are an agnostic, it's only a partial description. It's like saying I'm a believer... a believer in what?

So to complete the description in this topic, you need to associate either theist or atheist.

agnostic theist is someone who believes in god but understands you cannot have ultimate knowledge of such.
agnostic atheist is someone who does not believe in god but understands you cannot have ultimate knowledge of such.

Does this help at all?

 

[doombug]

If you're not an atheist then you're a theist. Unless you're one of those who doesn't know if he believes in a god. In which case, you shouldn't say you're not an atheist. You don't know if you're an atheist or a theist.

You seem open minded which also makes you an agnostic. But now we're talking about something different than belief. We're talking about knowledge.

I keep harping on this but that is the point of this thread. Belief and knowledge are different things. Atheist/theist addresses one. Agnostic/gnostic addresses the other. Of course, people use words differently. But, in my experience, this is what most atheists mean by the word atheist.

I don't know. If someone is searching I think it is possible to be in the process of narrowing it down. Right now Atheist is least likely for me. Believing or not really is still up in the air but I guess while in transition I may be more Agnostic. I don't see me staying Agnostic though because I think someone should find the truth for themselves. I like that about Buddha. He searched for answers and I think his teachings encourage the same.

 

[Tim]

I don't know. If someone is searching I think it is possible to be in the process of narrowing it down. Right now Atheist is least likely for me. Believing or not really is still up in the air but I guess while in transition I may be more Agnostic. I don't see me staying Agnostic though because I think someone should find the truth for themselves. I like that about Buddha. He searched for answers and I think his teachings encourage the same.

Wow, you really don't understand the whole concept here, do you?

It's ok if you need to ask for help.

 

[Codrus]

......It's ok if you need to ask for help.

i need help oh great Tim...i am perplexed by this creature we know as "Woman" and was wondering if you could provide some insight..

 

[Tim]

i need help oh great Tim...i am perplexed by this creature we know as "Woman" and was wondering if you could provide some insight..

Give me a call, it's one hell of a long topic and I have some tips that can get you a hot young wife as well.

 

[Codrus]

Tim has spoken.....

 

[doombug]

Wow, you really don't understand the whole concept here, do you?It's ok if you need to ask for help.

Well it sounds like you have to pick from a menu based on how you define the words "know" and "believe". I don't look at spirituality as something to be chosen like that but if I did I would like something with a twist of lime please....

 

[doombug]

Tim has spoken.....

Looks like a bull....that explains alot.

 

[Codrus]

Looks like a bull....that explains alot.

no he doesnt,..be nice, ...tims cool,...........besides,..i wish i had horns

 

[doombug]

no he doesnt,..be nice, ...tims cool,...........besides,..i wish i had horns

Really? I picture someone having to follow him around from thread to thread with a giant pooper scooper.

 

[Codrus]

Really? I picture someone having to follow him around from thread to thread with a giant pooper scooper.

im sorry, that position doesnt exist, but if you are serious about employment opportunities im sure your local job bank or day labor agency is a good place to start......i would neglect to mention your affinity for fecal matter though..

good luck:thumbup

 

[anathelia]

I selected the second option. There are things that I have experienced that have led me to believe in some higher power, whatever higher power that may be. However, I would never claim to know beyond a shadow of a doubt the existence of such a being. I don't believe in a god in quite the same way as I used to. I used to be pretty solid Christian. And while I cannot confirm nor deny the existence of a god, I feel that the Christian definition of "God" leaves much to be desired.

I like having an open mind and being able to objectively look at things. I do believe that a theistic view can coexist with an evolutionary view on the world and it's creation.

 

[doombug]

im sorry, that position doesnt exist, but if you are serious about employment opportunities im sure your local job bank or day labor agency is a good place to start......i would neglect to mention your affinity for fecal matter though..

good luck:thumbup

As I said I picture that position being filled(namely by you) but I'm sure as much BS as Tim spreads around it would take a team of scoopers to get the job done.

 

[Greatest I am]

The God I know does not do miracles.


The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship, it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

 

[BornReady]

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical.

Yep. That's why I respect you. Your belief doesn't concern me. And you're not delusional. If you thought you had proof of a cosmic consciousness then I might wonder about you. But I don't and others shouldn't fault you for believing in a cosmic consciousness even if we don't share your belief. And who knows, you could be right.

 

[Minor Axis]

The God I know does not do miracles...

I really like this post.

Now I'll roll play an annoying forum personality: You need to explain that! I need proof! Did you make all this stuff up??? Lol.

 

[Panacea]

For what it's worth, I've always seen GIA as fair and thoughtful. Not sure why so many take issue.

 

[anathelia]

For what it's worth, I've always seen GIA as fair and thoughtful. Not sure why so many take issue.

A lot of believers struggle with the concept that there are people out there who can't grasp the idea of their supposedly loving God being shown in the light that he's seen in in the OT. And GIA is quick to point it out. He doesn't always have the best...tact, I guess?...when it comes to the discussion. That's just why *I* think a lot of people take issue with him.

 

[Panacea]

A lot of believers struggle with the concept that there are people out there who can't grasp the idea of their supposedly loving God being shown in the light that he's seen in in the OT. And GIA is quick to point it out. He doesn't always have the best...tact, I guess?...when it comes to the discussion. That's just why *I* think a lot of people take issue with him.

Understandable. I suppose I expect people wandering these murky dead-horse threads to be sort of gristled and used to that kind of thing