Does pro-abortion have a real defense?

[Francis]

Think about it. Prior to the year 1900, how often did you find out about people doing stupid things? News traveled a lot slower back then. Now a days, people even seem to take pride in the stupid shit they do to the point where they post it on u-tube.

Before 1900 you never much of anything Joe but that was because many records were not kept..You are right that is travelled a lot slower as well but for them it was considered fast but it still existed..

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Abortion_(1500-1900)

 

[Alien Allen]

If it is a life the minute it becomes a fetus then where does the line stop?

They call it a fetus for a reason. It is not a viable living human being at that point. I am referring to early on in a pregnancy.

So then if one gets raped or makes a dumb decision and has unprotected sex then one should not be allowed to do anything even the next day?

The next step would then to ban contraception it seems if one takes that hard a line.

Tis a slippery slope and why I think it is none of my business what a woman chooses to do.

I am 100% hardcore pro choice. It does not make me pro abortion.

 

[Francis]

If it is a life the minute it becomes a fetus then where does the line stop?

They call it a fetus for a reason. It is not a viable living human being at that point. I am referring to early on in a pregnancy.

makes a dumb decision and has unprotected sex then one should not be allowed to do anything even the next day?

The next step would then to ban contraception it seems if one takes that hard a line.

Tis a slippery slope and why I think it is none of my business what a woman chooses to do.

I am 100% hardcore pro choice. It does not make me pro abortion.

Let stop to think about that for one minute.. I took out the Raped for a reason because that is out of the control of the woman..

But if two consenting adults have sex only one really has the choice to abort the fetus if it one was night of stupidity..

This is where I have an issue and believe BOTH should take responsibility for making a child..

You have many men who are forced into fatherhood who would love to be as much into control of that child and are told by the courts "You created that Child as it takes Two to make a Baby so Man Up" but it only takes one woman to decide to that faith good or bad.. And that I don't agree with..

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...4ROAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cvoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3105,4456330

 

[KLD1019]

what about the people who take precautions when having sex but still end up pregnant? birth control (in any way shape form) is not 100%. hell, even vasectomies arent 100%!!

but then that starts the argument of just not having sex at all :rolleyes

 

[Panacea]

what about the people who take precautions when having sex but still end up pregnant? birth control (in any way shape form) is not 100%. hell, even vasectomies arent 100%!!

but then that starts the argument of just not having sex at all :rolleyes

And with this, I really think people can easily judge without having any clue. "I would do everything right. This would never happen to me; this only happens to losers. If it did happen to me (which it won't), I'd do the right thing and have the baby!" *smug face*

Honestly, I don't think everyone knows exactly what they would do until they were faced with the decision. I think it most cases it's a lot harder than it sounds. Adoption is murky, having a child with a woman you don't love and paying support for 18 years is no joke. It's hard. Just like anything, the outliers get the press.

The woman who nonchalantly has her 7th abortion, that's what these people think about. They don't think about themselves, despite people like them having this decision to face every day.

 

[Alien Allen]

Let stop to think about that for one minute.. I took out the Raped for a reason because that is out of the control of the woman..

But if two consenting adults have sex only one really has the choice to abort the fetus if it one was night of stupidity..

This is where I have an issue and believe BOTH should take responsibility for making a child..

You have many men who are forced into fatherhood who would love to be as much into control of that child and are told by the courts "You created that Child as it takes Two to make a Baby so Man Up" but it only takes one woman to decide to that faith good or bad.. And that I don't agree with..

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...4ROAAAAIBAJ&sjid=cvoDAAAAIBAJ&pg=3105,4456330

I was making the point of the next day. Which would be long before there is even a sign of there being a fetus. If a fetus is to be given human rights then is an egg or sperm also to be given the same status??

As to the point regarding the males rights I agree there is a double standard. Not sure what can be done about that. Tis a very windy road to travel eh

 

[HK]

Society will not raise this child, society will not make things ok, they simply sit back in judgment.

Fuck yes. Well done for condemning a couple to raising a child that they don't want, or can't support, or which has severe disabilities, or even which hey, might kill it's own mother due to complications. Life isn't sacred, quality of life should be. I don't support the idea that every cell is special. Life just is - there's nothing special or unique about life, even plants live.

I am pro-choice. I would prefer that abortion didn't have to be an option, but there are circumstances in which I think it is a better choice than having a baby that's going to have no quality of life. I would rather that any child that is born, be wanted and supported.

I also agree with Pan, that the key to reducing abortions is not to make them more difficult to receive - the people who abuse the system are not the majority. The focus should be on preventing the pregnancy in the first place, through contraception and information.


Interestingly, it always seems to be men who shout the loudest about being 'pro-life'.

 

[KLD1019]

Interestingly, it always seems to be men who shout the loudest about being 'pro-life'.

exactly!!

Down Syndrome runs in my family. if i were to get pregnant again and find out it has DS, i would abort. i know for a fact that i DO NOT have the mental, physical, and emotional capability to raise a child with DS, because i was raised with a DS aunt. I have the utmost respect for people who CAN raise and handle a child with DS. i personally love DS children, they're a pure joy. but i couldnt personally raise one OR carry to term and put up for adoption. i just couldnt

 

[alice in chains]

of course she is, she is aware of her condition on infomed consent from a trained, respected medcial professional - no Dr of any worth would operate without to remove a gall bladder, the same is true of an abortion, no abortion without consent from the patient ( or legal next of kin if applicable)

I disagree that one she could consent or not due to the fact she is speaking for someone else who cannot defend itself...therefore, the best decision possible is chosen by a non-partisan, non biased person: the doctor.

 

[alice in chains]

I totally agree with you Kate

I have been raped at 11...Damn right I would have had an abortion!!! And yes I could have been pregnant as my monthly did start at 11 as well.

Similarly the man who raped me, his son impregnanted his own daughter at 18. She kept her son. Oh by the way she ended up hooking and getting hooked on heroin, but gee, at least she kept her baby so I guess by your standards that was better.

I'm not stubborn enough to believe there is never a circumstance in which abortion is satsifactory. That is why the doctor's expertise should be used. But there are so few circumstances where a child would need to be aborted in the best interests that it shouldn't even be part of the statistics. People who are full-out pro abortion use this special occasion as tool to make other wanted abortions seem alright.

 

[alice in chains]

I would venture a guess you would not choose to have your son or daughter to have Down syndrome and if given a choice, rather not have a son or daughter than have one with Down syndrome. What a crock of shit argument. :thumbdown

you're basically saying be perfect or be dead. i know some people with down syndrome that make the world alot better than 'normal' people do.

 

[hart]

A doctor's expertise should be used to decide if a woman should have a baby? Not unless the doctor plans on supporting the baby the rest of his or her life. Sorry, not going along with that one.

 

[porterjack]

I disagree that one she could consent or not due to the fact she is speaking for someone else who cannot defend itself...therefore, the best decision possible is chosen by a non-partisan, non biased person: the doctor.

does your logic extend to surgical procedures done on six month old infants, who to the best of my knowledge, cannot speak for themselves, should the Doc decide what is best, or perhaps, just perhaps he might be legally bound to respect parental consent

simply put Drs cannot and never will be able to decide what is best

 

[Kyle B]

exactly!!

Down Syndrome runs in my family. if i were to get pregnant again and find out it has DS, i would abort. i know for a fact that i DO NOT have the mental, physical, and emotional capability to raise a child with DS, because i was raised with a DS aunt. I have the utmost respect for people who CAN raise and handle a child with DS. i personally love DS children, they're a pure joy. but i couldnt personally raise one OR carry to term and put up for adoption. i just couldnt

The problem with that argument is, where do you draw the line?

If technology allowed a mother to find out that her child was going to be born gay, and she felt that she couldn't bear having a gay child, should she be able to get an abortion?

 

[porterjack]

The problem with that argument is, where do you draw the line?

If technology allowed a mother to find out that her child was going to be born gay, and she felt that she couldn't bear having a gay child, should she be able to get an abortion?

yes , yes, yes

SHE gets to decide, it the only way it should be

 

[Panacea]

Fuck yes. Well done for condemning a couple to raising a child that they don't want, or can't support, or which has severe disabilities, or even which hey, might kill it's own mother due to complications. Life isn't sacred, quality of life should be. I don't support the idea that every cell is special. Life just is - there's nothing special or unique about life, even plants live.

I am pro-choice. I would prefer that abortion didn't have to be an option, but there are circumstances in which I think it is a better choice than having a baby that's going to have no quality of life. I would rather that any child that is born, be wanted and supported.

I also agree with Pan, that the key to reducing abortions is not to make them more difficult to receive - the people who abuse the system are not the majority. The focus should be on preventing the pregnancy in the first place, through contraception and information.


Interestingly, it always seems to be men who shout the loudest about being 'pro-life'.

I so, so agree with this.

 

[HK]

If technology allowed a mother to find out that her child was going to be born gay, and she felt that she couldn't bear having a gay child, should she be able to get an abortion?

I see what you're trying to say, but there's a huge difference between a disability, and a sexual desire that most likely won't even become evident for the first thirteen years of their life.

Having a disabled child can often mean committing to spending the rest of your life caring for them, particularly if their disability is severe. They may never leave home, might never work or even be able to leave the house without you. There's also the increased possibility that they will die before you anyway, but if they don't then you get to worry about what will happen to them, who will be willing to care for them when you're no longer around.

I think drawing a line here is not difficult. If your child is going to be disabled from birth, you should have the choice to terminate the pregnancy. Depending on the disability, I know I might.

 

[alice in chains]

A doctor's expertise should be used to decide if a woman should have a baby? Not unless the doctor plans on supporting the baby the rest of his or her life. Sorry, not going along with that one.

it should if it's a very difficult situation like an 11 year old getting raped. as ive stated, its wrong to kill a life just because the person doesn't like it...you donnot think people can tell you what to do with your body...well, why then are you allowed to tell someone else to do with their life?

 

[alice in chains]

does your logic extend to surgical procedures done on six month old infants, who to the best of my knowledge, cannot speak for themselves, should the Doc decide what is best, or perhaps, just perhaps he might be legally bound to respect parental consent

simply put Drs cannot and never will be able to decide what is best

i'm talking about why a doctor's expertise should be the authority when it comes to aborting or not...not in this completely different realm youre diving into.

 

[porterjack]

i'm talking about why a doctor's expertise should be the authority when it comes to aborting or not...not in this completely different realm youre diving into.

You seem to be re-stating that this expertise should carry more weight than the womans wishes
I say it never should
There is no need