Does pro-abortion have a real defense?

[porterjack]

Then the law is wrong, life is life no matter whether the foetus has rights or not

now we are getting somewhere, you may think so, i think not

this does not change the fact that the law is the law

arguing on whether laws should change is like pissing in the wind

 

[porterjack]

This situation is a definte issue and the mother is not in the position to make that kind of medical decision. The doctor deserves ultimate consent of the decision.

of course she is, she is aware of her condition on infomed consent from a trained, respected medcial professional - no Dr of any worth would operate without to remove a gall bladder, the same is true of an abortion, no abortion without consent from the patient ( or legal next of kin if applicable)

 

[porterjack]

I don't know anyone who is pro-abortion.

agreed even stupid people would prefer not to abort - they would prefer simply not to be pregnant

 

[darkcgi]

I say until YOU have to make that choice under each of those circumstances your opion is bias to the fact that you are not expirenced in what its really like
kind of like say what you would do in a certain situation that you have not been in yet and then when you actually get in that situation you realize things are different than you imagined and now you choose to act differently than you thought
I like that idea of keeping life once its made
but after saying that were i to be the one with the choice i might choose differetly I dont know for sure

 

[Tuffdisc]

now we are getting somewhere, you may think so, i think not

this does not change the fact that the law is the law

arguing on whether laws should change is like pissing in the wind

That is a matter of opinion whether you or I think the law is right or wrong. I think the law should only be for those in danger of giving birth and stringent test to whether they are in any danger.

 

[porterjack]

That is a matter of opinion whether you or I think the law is right or wrong. I think the law should only be for those in danger of giving birth and stringent test to whether they are in any danger.

of course it is a matter of opinion, my opinion based on what you post is that you think the law is wrong, why you even said so yourself, i respect your opinion, i disagree with it

i think your opinion on what the law should be is totally wrong

like i said pissing in the wind ( get you nowhere)

 

[Peter Parka]

I only believe abortion should be a choice if there is a realistic chance that giving birth will be fatal to the mother. I don't believe murder is right as a means of fixing a mistake. People here keep banging on about the rights of the mother and it's her fetus. No, it's not, it is a seperate life which has the right to life. You can sugar coat it as much as you want but the truth is that abortion IS murder.

 

[Tuffdisc]

of course it is a matter of opinion, my opinion based on what you post is that you think the law is wrong, why you even said so yourself, i respect your opinion, i disagree with it

i think your opinion on what the law should be is totally wrong

like i said pissing in the wind ( get you nowhere)

Whether I get nowhere in saying that abortion should be illegal but for the exception of a medical/life threatening is really irrelevant

 

[porterjack]

Whether I get nowhere in saying that abortion should be illegal but for the exception of a medical/life threatening is really irrelevant

yes i know, fuck me you are hard work arguing about it with me is like pissing in the wind, carry on getting noweher on your own

 

[porterjack]

I only believe abortion should be a choice if there is a realistic chance that giving birth will be fatal to the mother. I don't believe murder is right as a means of fixing a mistake. People here keep banging on about the rights of the mother and it's her fetus. No, it's not, it is a seperate life which has the right to life. You can sugar coat it as much as you want but the truth is that abortion IS murder.

murder is a criminal offence, where a law is proven to have been broken

as abortion is legal it may be offensive or repugnant but murder it is not

people really need to seperate hearts and minds on this issue

 

[hart]

There are very few things that get me as riled up as this topic. I thought your whole post was pretty ignorant but the bolded part is damn offensive. What you are saying is, that if as a woman I am raped and get pregnant from this I should either kill myself or keep the baby?

At the end of the day it is my body, if I have an unplanned pregnancy then I should have the CHOICE of whether I keep it or not. My decision does not change your life in anyway so don't try and push your values onto me.

I totally agree with you Kate

I have been raped at 11...Damn right I would have had an abortion!!! And yes I could have been pregnant as my monthly did start at 11 as well.

Similarly the man who raped me, his son impregnanted his own daughter at 18. She kept her son. Oh by the way she ended up hooking and getting hooked on heroin, but gee, at least she kept her baby so I guess by your standards that was better.

 

[Tuffdisc]

murder is a criminal offence, where a law is proven to have been broken

as abortion is legal it may be offensive or repugnant but murder it is not

people really need to seperate hearts and minds on this issue

So we should detach from the reality that abortion is murder, just because it is legal?

Why not make other things that are illegal into legal, I'm sure it will be fine in your world

 

[Peter Parka]

murder is a criminal offence, where a law is proven to have been broken

as abortion is legal it may be offensive or repugnant but murder it is not

people really need to seperate hearts and minds on this issue

This isn't a debate about what is legal or not, we all know the law. It dosen't mean it's right. If that's your way of thinking, why arn't you in the marijuana thread telling people they are wrong because that drug is illegal?

 

[Tuffdisc]

I totally agree with you Kate

I have been raped at 11...Damn right I would have had an abortion!!! And yes I could have been pregnant as my monthly did start at 11 as well.

Similarly the man who raped me, his son impregnanted his own daughter at 18. She kept her son. Oh by the way she ended up hooking and getting hooked on heroin, but gee, at least she kept her baby so I guess by your standards that was better.

What has that got to do with the fact just because they ended up like that? There are people with whose children have down syndrome who are living a good life

 

[porterjack]

Pro-abortioners have all kinds of irrate arguments of why it should be allowed. My intent is to show that there is no rational reason for abortion to be legal..

So Peter you say it is not about the legality of abortion, his is how the OP started out

Peoples' personal opinions on pro-abortion shouldn't be respected or tolerated because they are attempting to murder an individual who cannot stand up for itself. It's plain science.

again here is a contradiction of a legal issue, it is NOT murder because it is NOT an illegal act

This isn't a debate about what is legal or not, we all know the law. It dosen't mean it's right. If that's your way of thinking, why arn't you in the marijuana thread telling people they are wrong because that drug is illegal?

 

[Peter Parka]

 

[hart]

What has that got to do with the fact just because they ended up like that? There are people with whose children have down syndrome who are living a good life

I would venture a guess you would not choose to have your son or daughter to have Down syndrome and if given a choice, rather not have a son or daughter than have one with Down syndrome. What a crock of shit argument. :thumbdown

 

[Panacea]

In self-disclosure, when a woman has a miscarriage, I feel sorry for her and her family for the loss. I do not generally, think much about the unborn. I don't think about the life it missed, nor have many sympathies whatsoever. I am apathetic. I don't see this issue the way many see this issue. It's not a scientific thing, it's not anything but pure apathy.

Surely it makes logical sense people would be so hateful about abortion. People get really worked up about protecting life in general, which is also not something I quite understand. I tend to care more about preventing suffering once in life, not about saving life at all costs. For instance I support euthanasia, and when I mourn a suicide, I mourn their pain in life, not their death.

I do not feel this way, however, when damage is being done in the pregnancy (drug use, etc), despite plans to carry on with the birth. I don't think it's very wise or fair to set up the unborn for a future life of disease when it could be easily avoided. Still, my concern is for the being once it's born, not before. That's just me.

Despite feeling strongly against violence and abuse, I make a clear moral exception for abortion. I simply cannot allow myself to care that these feelings and morals contradict. My feelings are muddy, but overall I feel this is a not a decision for society, but individuals within. Society will not raise this child, society will not make things ok, they simply sit back in judgment.

I think the most important piece of this issue is not abortion or forced motherhood, but prevention of unwanted pregnancies. Education, resources, support, etc. Even if they don't work. If one abortion is kept from happening, it's worth it to me.

I also think it's foolish to believe stupidity or ignorance will ever cease to exist on the planet. Laws don't reduce stupidity, in my opinion, they just make stupid people sneaky. Hence dumb criminal tv shows. Make abortion illegal, make it punishable by death, couples will still choose to have unprotected sex and have abortions if they feel it's all they can do. Someone will perform an abortion, even if it's illegal. Someone will have an abortion, even if it's illegal. It will never be gone, and people will still grit their teeth and curse.

Really, opinions don't matter in this issue. They truly don't.
I hope it stays legal, and I hope fewer and fewer abortions are done every year. That's the only thing I really think about the matter.

 

[Dana]

Who gives a fuck? Probably nobody. As I've said before, why should the government or anyone else say what a woman should do with her body? Some animals in the wild can abort their fetus depending on the seasons and if they get enough food. Is that murder? I hate to tell you we're just walking, talking, thinking animals. Some more animal than others. Just because females cant abort their fetus naturally doesn't mean, if they cannot keep the child that they shouldn't be able to. Nobody's going to agree with you just because you go on an irate tirade.

 

[Francis]

Really, opinions don't matter in this issue. They truly don't.
I hope it stays legal, and I hope fewer and fewer abortions are done every year. That's the only thing I really think about the matter.

I always believed one should be responsible for his or her actions and take responsibility for what they create. But there will always and must always be a place and time for certain leeway on any circumstances.

Minimizing Abortion to what should be defined as the bare basics but that option will never please both sides who will claim we want our cake and eat it as well.

The problem is both sides want all or nothing.. There is no middle ground in this debate.. Not for the parties involved at least.. It's either all or nothing..