Does and should God break His commandments?

[Greatest I am]

Does and should God break His commandments?
There are inconsistencies in scripture that indicate that God is not subject to His own laws and commandments.
If, on earth as it is in heaven is to have meaning, and if God is to be our greatest example, we should remember that any human law maker is subject to his laws yet many think that God has more of a, do as I say and not as I do, type of morality. This to me would be an immoral and hypocritical position and I cannot see God taking it. If God is exempt from His own laws then, on earth as in heaven, can never come to pass.
As I look at the list of commandments, I see where God and or Jesus may indeed have broken some of the commandments.
The 1st You shall have no other gods before me.
It appears the Jesus broke this commandment by placing himself above God the Father, ----only through me. That is why we are told that if we do not believe in Jesus, we are doomed to hell. This basically usurps the function once held by the Father.
The 2nd You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
God Himself carved a set of commandments for Moses and thus breaks the commandment.
The 3rd You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
Pass.
The 4th Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Jesus was accused of working and preaching on the Sabbath.
http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/?search=Jesus%20sabbath&version1=9&searchtype=all
The 5th Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
Jesus seems again to place Himself ahead or above the Father which arguably shows a lack of respect.

The 6th You shall not murder.
God, in a large number of places in the O T, either kills or orders the killing of many and in the cases of children and babies, these can arguably be called murder.
The 7th You shall not commit adultery.
God is said to use Mary, another man’s woman, to reproduce what some would call a bastard son as it was born out of wedlock.
Tee 8th You shall not steal.
Pass.

The 9th You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
If lie is implied, we would see again a number of times where we can arguably say that God lied. The first would be in Eden to Adam and Eve who were told they could eat of the tree of life and later, God rescinded this statement and prevented that possibility. Thus making His statement a lie. It is also said by theists that god gave us our free will and He is also shown as rescinding this gift every time He killed or had someone killed. They would obviously had the free will choice to live and not die yet this free will decision was ignored by God.
10th You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.
God seems to break this one as well when He desired Mary as the vessel for His reproductive purposes. He also seems to covet our love honor and adoration quite strongly as, if it is denied, then those who do not, end in eternal hell.
These clearly show a poor record, 2 out of 10, for God in keeping His own commandment and laws. I have likely been marking in a stricter way than the average theist.
Should God be expected to keep the commandments?
If we can get past these then we can tackle the question of whether or not man can hold to the 10 commandments. I think we can actually do better than God.
Regards
DL

 

[retro]

1st - Jesus said he was equal to God
2nd - God didn't tell them to worship the 10 commandments
3rd - Duh
4th - Jesus is/was God
5th - Again, Jesus said he was equal to God. You can't show a lack of respect if you're telling the truth.
6th - Key word in your statement is arguably.
7th - Wow, did I really just read that? You're actually implying the God had sex with Mary in order to create Jesus? Immaculate conception anyone?
8th - Duh pass
9th - God said that they could eat of the tree of life, but he set the condition that they could be in the garden so long as they didn't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As far as your second example goes, your implication is that if someone dies then they didn't have free will... regardless of whether or not it was God who "killed" them. People have free will to choose their actions, but we don't have any control over our own deaths.
10th - Again with coveting and having sex with Mary. You're really grasping at straws here, it's kinda pathetic.

 

[mazHur]

If I'm not better than God or Jesus I must refrain from criticizing Them...the same way as am not qualified to criticize Einstein!!

 

[Peter Parka]

I dont see it's arguable at all that the god of the Bible is a murderer. He several times in the bible strikes people down for the most silly of reasons. If he was a human and was in court charged with murder for what he did, no jury in the land would reduce it to man slaughter based on self defense ect.

 

[mazHur]

Isn't there problem with humans that they want God to behave the same way they did rather than they did what he Commanded??

 

[Greatest I am]

1st - Jesus said he was equal to God

That debate rages on elsewhere.

If equal then he is keeping secrets from himself as well as other inconsistent bible quotes.

Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

2nd - God didn't tell them to worship the 10 commandments

He still gave an icon of carved token to idolize. He replaced the cow with it.

3rd - Duh
4th - Jesus is/was God

See above and how does God send Himself to earth where His immortal Self can somehow die?

5th - Again, Jesus said he was equal to God. You can't show a lack of respect if you're telling the truth.

Again, see above.

6th - Key word in your statement is arguably.

The term murder is but kill is not. He killed.

7th - Wow, did I really just read that? You're actually implying the God had sex with Mary in order to create Jesus? Immaculate conception anyone?

I do not see the word sex in my post. I notice you did not refute bastard son.

8th - Duh pass
9th - God said that they could eat of the tree of life, but he set the condition that they could be in the garden so long as they didn't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As far as your second example goes, your implication is that if someone dies then they didn't have free will... regardless of whether or not it was God who "killed" them. People have free will to choose their actions, but we don't have any control over our own deaths.

God did not set the limits when He made His initial statement. He did His Indian giving later.

Yes we do have control, to some extent over our lives. Can you not chose to end your life?
Yes you can.

10th - Again with coveting and having sex with Mary. You're really grasping at straws here, it's kinda pathetic.

Typical Christian reply. You cannot refute so insult to deflect.

I would say that it is your reply that is a pathetic piece of justification and poor logic.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

If I'm not better than God or Jesus I must refrain from criticizing Them...the same way as am not qualified to criticize Einstein!!

If A & E can be as Gods in a moral sense, the reason they were evicted from Eden, then what is holding you back?

You have judged God good so you can also judge what may be evil.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Isn't there problem with humans that they want God to behave the same way they did rather than they did what he Commanded??

If we are to emulate God, and we are, then do as I say and not as I do must be a good policy.

Is it?

Should we allow our law makers to break their own laws?

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

The Bible is just a compilation of inconsistent religious writings by MEN edited with an agenda. Picking apart the inconsistencies just proves the point.

 

[retro]

Typical Christian reply. You cannot refute so insult to deflect.

I would say that it is your reply that is a pathetic piece of justification and poor logic.

Regards
DL

I never insulted once... except for your argument. Your post was full of logical fallacies and straw men.

As far as your rebuttals

1 - I'm sure that at your job (if you actually have one), there are people equal to you that have different responsibilities. That doesn't mean that they're ahead of you or unequal, it just means that you have different job duties.

2- No, he gave a list of rules to live by. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Jews were to worship the commandments.

4 - John 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, 'He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.' " From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

5 - See above. Jesus was fully God and fully man.

6 - People kill in the defense of those that they love, is that murder?

7 - I didn't "refute" bastard son, because I didn't think it even bore worthy of responding to. Aside from that, you didn't say sex, but the implication was there as you're talking about adultery. I thought that was a pretty simple concept to grasp.

9a - You're incorrect

Genesis 2:15-17

The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

9b - Yes, we can choose to end our own life, but we don't have control over it otherwise. But that's yet another straw man argument. You're claiming that free will is taken away by God if he were to kill someone... but that isn't free will at all. We have no more control over that than we do whether or not someone hit you with their car on your way home from work.

Typical atheist reply, full of straw men and logical fallacies.

 

[Minor Axis]

1st - Jesus said he was equal to God
2nd - God didn't tell them to worship the 10 commandments
3rd - Duh
4th - Jesus is/was God
5th - Again, Jesus said he was equal to God. You can't show a lack of respect if you're telling the truth.
6th - Key word in your statement is arguably.
7th - Wow, did I really just read that? You're actually implying the God had sex with Mary in order to create Jesus? Immaculate conception anyone?
8th - Duh pass
9th - God said that they could eat of the tree of life, but he set the condition that they could be in the garden so long as they didn't eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. As far as your second example goes, your implication is that if someone dies then they didn't have free will... regardless of whether or not it was God who "killed" them. People have free will to choose their actions, but we don't have any control over our own deaths.
10th - Again with coveting and having sex with Mary. You're really grasping at straws here, it's kinda pathetic.

I'm curious, do you take the words of the Bible as the literal truth or is it really just a good story? And if you believe it to be the truth, what happened in your life to push you towards this conclusion? (Not trying to start anything, just curious.)

Btw, regarding GIA's reply to you, I don't really consider this (your) reply as insulting. It's is more of an indignant, your are questioning my faith, reply.

 

[Greatest I am]

The Bible is just a compilation of inconsistent religious writings by MEN edited with an agenda. Picking apart the inconsistencies just proves the point.

And the butterfly effect says that if we pick it apart often enough it will die or be interpreted in a better way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jV9OZWi_tos

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Retro

This is an insult.
“You're really grasping at straws here, it's kinda pathetic.”
So is this.
“Your post was full of logical fallacies and straw men.”
So is this.
“I'm sure that at your job (if you actually have one), there are people equal to you that have different responsibilities. That doesn't mean that they're ahead of you or unequal, it just means that you have different job duties.”
“(if you actually have one), “ makes it so.

“Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Jews were to worship the commandments.”
If not then why God’s anger right after Moses brings the commandments down for the first time! Just read Exodus 32, where Moses goes up on the mountain and when he comes back, the people were dancing naked around a golden calf they made. An odd behavior, but not worthy of the death penalty is it?

32:27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor.
32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses: and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men.

3000 wrongs make a right? But that's not enough punishment for practicing freedom of religion:

32:35 And the LORD plagued the people, because they made the calf, which Aaron made.

Oddly enough, Aaron goes on to be a leader of the 'church' for quite some time.

“See above. Jesus was fully God and fully man.”
Why are your quotes showing Jesus as God more powerful or believable than mine showing he is not.
To believe so then you have to believe that virgins can give birth. You expect me to follow your magic thinking and I will not. I invite you to come to logic and reason instead.

“People kill in the defense of those that they love, is that murder?”
In whose defense was God killing for and could He not just move His super 8 instead of killing the rest of the world?
Who need protection from children and babies?
Could your omnipotent God not cure instead of kill. That would be the moral thing to do.

“I didn't "refute" bastard son, because I didn't think it even bore worthy of responding to. Aside from that, you didn't say sex, but the implication was there as you're talking about adultery.”
If not a bastard son then what would you call a son born out of wedlock?
If not adultery then what was it, a miracle again that you hide behind or artificial insemination perhaps. You might also know if you have done some research on virgin births that Jesus was what, the 6th or 7th born of a virgin? God had been busy no?

“9a - You're incorrect

Genesis 2:15-17
Quote:
The LORD God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it. And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."


“"You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; “
And later God proceeded to inhibit that eating and thus broke His word.
Where am I incorrect?

“9b - Yes, we can choose to end our own life, but we don't have control over it otherwise.”
Really? Who then was controlling you when you replied to my post?

“You're claiming that free will is taken away by God if he were to kill someone... but that isn't free will at all.”
Did His victims not have their free will sitting at a desire to continue to live?
Is killing them not completely ignoring their desire to live?

Regards
DL

 

[retro]

Retro

This is an insult.
“You're really grasping at straws here, it's kinda pathetic.”
So is this.
“Your post was full of logical fallacies and straw men.”
So is this.
“I'm sure that at your job (if you actually have one), there are people equal to you that have different responsibilities. That doesn't mean that they're ahead of you or unequal, it just means that you have different job duties.”
“(if you actually have one), “ makes it so.

Your attempts at rebutting me aren't really worth of my time, so I'll simply respond to the above. In case you're wondering, they're not worthy of my time because they're even more pathetic straw men and logical fallacies than your previous statements. Perhaps if you had something meaningful to post rather than the same drivel worded differently, I might be bothered to respond. But I don't see that happening anytime soon... your modus operandi is to throw shit on a wall, hope that some of it sticks, and then refuse to actually have a discussion based on facts. Your entire argument is in the realm of the Bible, so I provided proof in the bible as to where you were incrorrect, and you still claim otherwise. You use the first part of a sentence in order to claim that a second part of it is incorrect. That's a simple lack of understanding as to how language works.

None of those are personal insults, they're attacking your points... which is completely valid in the course of an discussion. I'm sorry that you don't like your point being called out for what they are... pathetic straw men and logical fallacies. You load your statements with half-truths and incorrect assumptions in order to further your own agenda.

"If you actually have one" wasn't an insult, it was a statement... I don't know anything about you. You might be retired, in school, or doing something else with your life that doesn't involve working. Again, you've chosen to be offended by something, not because it was actually offensive.

 

[hart]

The Bible is just a compilation of inconsistent religious writings by MEN edited with an agenda. Picking apart the inconsistencies just proves the point.

:homo:I don't even know why I read this subject but Axis, this is how I feel :thumbup

 

[rain]

Holy Trinity.

God is perfect, so he's got this shiz. Dont be a critic. Consider deeper elements and other side things within the Bible when looking into the commandments. Plus the commandments are sorta old testamentish (yet still new testamentish) and when it comes to people trying to interpret the two it can kinda get confusing.

 

[Greatest I am]

Holy Trinity.

God is perfect, so he's got this shiz. Dont be a critic. Consider deeper elements and other side things within the Bible when looking into the commandments. Plus the commandments are sorta old testamentish (yet still new testamentish) and when it comes to people trying to interpret the two it can kinda get confusing.

Let’s check the math. Math never lies. It cannot.

Is God the Trinity 100% God or 300% or 400% ?

God the Father is 100% God.
God the Holy Spirit is 100% God.
God/Jesus the son is 100% God.
God Jesus is100% man.

The Trinity must then consist of the God the Father, God the Holy spirit, Jesus/God nature and Jesus/man nature.

Is that not four distinct natures?

Trinity means three, should we not be calling it something else?

Math cannot lie.

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

Let’s check the math. Math never lies. It cannot.

Is God the Trinity 100% God or 300% or 400% ?

God the Father is 100% God.
God the Holy Spirit is 100% God.
God/Jesus the son is 100% God.
God Jesus is100% man.

The Trinity must then consist of the God the Father, God the Holy spirit, Jesus/God nature and Jesus/man nature.

Is that not four distinct natures?

Trinity means three, should we not be calling it something else?

Math cannot lie.

Regards
DL

The concept is clearly beyond your understanding and my guess everyone elses too!

God is perfect.

A faith based statement.

 

[dkwrtw]

if this god fellow exists then he doesn't have to follow SHIT, he runs the show, he is above the law.

 

[edgray]