Do you Believe in God?

[noonkey]

i used to think there was a god, went church and all that. but things started happenin, made me think well would he let this happen. i used get beat by my dad i had run from home just get away from it why did he let things like that happen??? there is no right or wrong. im still trying to figure out

 

[Omega]

Show me proof there is no one eyed yeti of Prague.

Get where I'm coming from?

Yes, and you could prove alien life this way! (the same way I can prove god)

i used to think there was a god, went church and all that. but things started happenin, made me think well would he let this happen. i used get beat by my dad i had run from home just get away from it why did he let things like that happen??? there is no right or wrong. im still trying to figure out

I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. The way I see it, God did a lot of work, he sent a savior to try to change everyone, but then let humanity decide their course from there. Probably not the best strategy in our minds, but he IS god, and who knows what his plans are. There's always a possiblity that he is unable to affect the people on earth, for some reason. Regardless, I am NOT one of those people who need to see to believe. Do you need to see something to believe it? Or can you believe in what you cannot see or touch?

I sure do.

 

[Minor Axis]

Yes, and you could prove alien life this way! (the same way I can prove god)

I'm sorry, but you have not/can not prove there is anything in particular after physical death.

Well, put it this way. Show me prove that there is NOT a god. Good luck.

I find it a little hard to believe that poof, we all just appeared after some epic explosion that came from... where did this 'big bang' come from??? I'm not saying science is wrong, I just have my own believes. Without faith, life is pretty meaningless...

Beliefs based on wishful thinking? 99% of religion is about what is in your brain and has nothing to do with facts anyway.

 

[Minor Axis]

i used to think there was a god, went church and all that. but things started happenin, made me think well would he let this happen. i used get beat by my dad i had run from home just get away from it why did he let things like that happen??? there is no right or wrong. im still trying to figure out

The difference between "non-devote" me and the other "devote" posters in this forum is that I won't tell you how it is. But I'll tell you what I think it could be.

Number one if, and that is a HUGE if, there is a God anything like humans imagine him/her to be, our father in heaven, a singular omnipotent being, he is not a proactive God in the physical. He does not reward the good and punish the bad at least in this life. There are too many examples of the exact opposite. God as we know him is mostly something people thought up to ease their fears. But that does not mean there is not a "here after", some existence after physical death, a soul, a collective consciousness, The Force.

For the most part, I don't believe there is any divine intervention in our lives, at least not like Christians will tell you. Something might happen in your brain, but is that internal or external? No way to know. Don't fall for the idea that because I am now energized, and feel really good about my self, God gave that to me. You gave it to yourself. So don't ever look up and ask "Why did you let this happen to me?"

I suspect you are on this Earth to experience, learn, see the error of your ways, and walk away from this life having improved yourself. Yes, that is just wishful thinking on my part!! Many religious people fall into this trap of thinking that if I do everything right, I will be rewarded. Well, you might be, but it might not be in this life. Or there may be no reward at all other than self improvement.

Bottom line, as far as the physical, shit happens and if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, your physical existence will be squashed like a bug. (Don't blame God, he did not put you there, get mad at the dice. ) But if you believe the possibility that your existence continues beyond physical death than it's not that big a deal. Just another learning experience on the long road...

This has got me wondering. Could there be a mechanism of placement that puts you (your newly born self) into a particular situation based on divine course requirements??

Oh, happy 4th of July to those that observe!

 

[Minor Axis]

Newsweek- Let's talk about God. Interesting article.

The atheist writers Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens have presented us with a choice: either you don't believe in God or you're a dope. "It is perfectly absurd for religious moderates to suggest that a rational human being can believe in God, simply because that belief makes him happy," writes Harris in the 2005 "Atheist Manifesto" now posted on the Web site of his new nonprofit, The Reason Project. Their brilliance, wit and (general) good humor have made the new generation of atheists celebrities among people who like to consider themselves smart. We enjoy their books and their telegenic bombast so much that we don't mind their low opinion of us. Dopey or not, 90 percent of Americans continue to say they believe in God.

Though he never comes right out and declares that the human propensity for morality—and, by extension, truth and love—is given by God (or is God), he comes awfully close. In an imaginary debate with a scientist, he compares God to an electron. You know it's there, but you don't know anything real about what it looks like or what its properties are. Scientists believe in electrons because they see the effects of electrons on the world. "You might say," he writes in his afterword, "that love and truth are the two primary manifestations of divinity in which we can partake, and that by partaking in them we become truer manifestations of the divine. Then again, you might not say that. The point is just that you wouldn't have to be crazy to say it." (I can already hear Steven Pinker typing like mad.)

With those three sentences, Wright gives relief and intellectual ballast to those believers weary of the punching-bag tone of the recent faith-and-reason debates. The arguments are "fun, but they degrade the academy," said Great Britain's chief rabbi, Jonathan Sacks, at a dinner sponsored by the Templeton Foundation recently. What they miss, he says, "is that the meaning of the system lies outside of the system and the meaning of the universe lies outside the universe."

Regarding the bold face, I say maybe, maybe not. We just don't know enough to make that determination. It might be a mechanism imbedded in the Universe, linked to other planes of existence, that we just don't understand or not even aware of.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Well, put it this way. Show me prove that there is NOT a god. Good luck.

I find it a little hard to believe that poof, we all just appeared after some epic explosion that came from... where did this 'big bang' come from??? I'm not saying science is wrong, I just have my own believes. Without faith, life is pretty meaningless...

Why should the burden of proof be upon non-believers to disprove the existence of god?

Rather, the onus of proof rests upon you to prove gods existence. Otherwise I can just make up a bunch of wild creations and claim they exist because no-one can prove to the contrary.

And life isn't meaningless without faith. The only thing certain about life is that we die, everything else in between is determined by our actions.

 

[Minor Axis]

Why should the burden of proof be upon non-believers to disprove the existence of god?

I agree. The burden is on believers to prove the existence of something, in this case an Omnipotent Being who sent his son to Earth, established 10 rules for us to follow, and threatens us with damnation if we don't fall in line. What is interesting here is that the OB in question has never made a substantiated visit or announced his presence to mankind, ever.

And no, we don't have to proove every fantasy that someone thinks up...

 

[Margene]

Well, put it this way. Show me prove that there is NOT a god. Good luck.

I find it a little hard to believe that poof, we all just appeared after some epic explosion that came from... where did this 'big bang' come from??? I'm not saying science is wrong, I just have my own believes. Without faith, life is pretty meaningless...

Merionyyd stated it very well, it is up to believers to prove there is.

In debating believers I have never received a satisfactory answer to if there is a God, why do innocents suffer? For example, why are babies born with cancer? Why are there pedophiles who do incredible damage and murder children?

 

[Dakota Jim]

Merionyyd stated it very well, it is up to believers to prove there is.

In debating believers I have never received a satisfactory answer to if there is a God, why do innocents suffer? For example, why are babies born with cancer? Why are there pedophiles who do incredible damage and murder children?

I'm still waiting to see how big the ark was that had every single critter two by two, the room to carry the tons of various foods, the personnel to manage it, the huge pools to hold the fish and whales, the.............
:sarcasm

 

[Minor Axis]

In debating believers I have never received a satisfactory answer to if there is a God, why do innocents suffer?

Shoot, that is easy. My guess based on the history of the world, if there is a reason, you are not put on this Earth to get a free ride although some of have it much better than others, hence the "shit happens" theory.

 

[Margene]

I'm still waiting to see how big the ark was that had every single critter two by two, the room to carry the tons of various foods, the personnel to manage it, the huge pools to hold the fish and whales, the.............
:sarcasm

:clap

That is one of the more bizarre stories, for sure! The bible is full of contradictions and hard to swallow tales, for instance, Adam and Eve. I don't want to get graphic, but think procreation beyond their own children.

 

[Margene]

Shoot, that is easy. My guess based on the history of the world, if there is a reason, you are not put on this Earth to get a free ride although some of have it much better than others, hence the "shit happens" theory.

Indeed s*** does happen, but why are innocents, specifically children made to pay?

 

[Dana]

I've got news for you... George Burns IS God

 

[Dakota Jim]

:clap

That is one of the more bizarre stories, for sure! The bible is full of contradictions and hard to swallow tales, for instance, Adam and Eve. I don't want to get graphic, but think procreation beyond their own children.

A little Momma/son action?? She was probably a MILF!! Urban dictionary if ya need to.

 

[Margene]

I've got news for you... George Burns IS God

LOL

If George were God, we'd all laugh ourselves to death.

 

[Margene]

A little Momma/son action?? She was probably a MILF!! Urban dictionary if ya need to.

:eek


No need for the urban dictionary...LOL, that one I have heard of.

But honestly, isn't it odd that the answer to that question, as far as I know, is not made plain? How can Christians be comfortable with that implication? :eek

 

[Minor Axis]

Indeed s*** does happen, but why are innocents, specifically children made to pay?

Children are just little people. When it comes to fate or the hand of God, they don't get special consideration just because they are new to this world. I'm not trying to sound harsh, just realistic because we are all headed down the same road. So I see several possibilities, "shit happens" can be valid for all of them.

1) There is no reason, there is no plan. (Atheists like this one) BTW, if we exist for 1-100 years and then it's all over, what is the point, and why bother?

2) You are here to experience life, and for lack of a better reason, to improve yourself, with no guarantees of how long that experience will be. If you lean towards believing that your existence continues after physical death, then it's not that big of a deal, because your time on Earth is like experiencing a very short simulator ride. If you think you could have a spirit with an unknown existance-span, maybe eternity, then the time you spend on Earth, even if you live to be 100 is miniscule as compared to your real existence in the after life. The other possibility in this line of thought is that you make repeated trips to visit and experience this plane of existence. (In which case I see no reason why it has to be Earth. Could be some other populated planet anywhere in this huge universe we live in.)

3) In the traditional view, if God (as defined by Christians/Muslums) does truly exist, then he most likely is not proactive in this physical plane, otherwise (as I said before) why would so many bad things happen to good people? The only explanation would be that regardless of how bad you have it here, there is always an opportunity to better yourself and your reward, only if that reward is self improvement, is realized both in this life and at some other continuing level.

 

[Margene]

Children are just little people. When it comes to fate or the hand of God, they don't get special consideration just because they are new to this world. I'm not trying to sound harsh, just realistic because we are all headed down the same road. So I see several possibilities, "shit happens" can be valid for all of them.

1) There is no reason, there is no plan. (Atheists like this one) BTW, if we exist for 1-100 years and then it's all over, what is the point, and why bother?

2) You are here to experience life, and for lack of a better reason, to improve yourself, with no guarantees of how long that experience will be. If you lean towards believing that your existence continues after physical death, then it's not that big of a deal, because your time on Earth is like experiencing a very short simulator ride. If you think you could have a spirit with an unknown existance-span, maybe eternity, then the time you spend on Earth, even if you live to be 100 is miniscule as compared to your real existence in the after life. The other possibility in this line of thought is that you make repeated trips to visit and experience this plane of existence. (In which case I see no reason why it has to be Earth. Could be some other populated planet anywhere in this huge universe we live in.)

3) In the traditional view, if God (as defined by Christians/Muslums) does truly exist, then he most likely is not proactive in this physical plane, otherwise (as I said before) why would so many bad things happen to good people? The only explanation would be that regardless of how bad you have it here, there is always an opportunity to better yourself and your reward, only if that reward is self improvement, is realized both in this life and at some other continuing level.

I really appreciate your reply. I have run the gamut of beliefs, many of which you laid out above.

I'll address #3 because that is specifically what I am trying to get at and only with regard to Christianity. If God is not proactive and that is truly the answer to why God would allow children, the most innocent of souls, to suffer at the hands of filth, then why pray and have faith?

This is what I want a Christian, a believer to explain. You explained it from an atheist point of view, which is more credible a response than I've ever received from a Christian. Thanks.

 

[Minor Axis]

I really appreciate your reply. I have run the gamut of beliefs, many of which you laid out above.

I'll address #3 because that is specifically what I am trying to get at and only with regard to Christianity. If God is not proactive and that is truly the answer to why God would allow children, the most innocent of souls, to suffer at the hands of filth, then why pray and have faith?

This is what I want a Christian, a believer to explain. You explained it from an atheist point of view, which is more credible a response than I've ever received from a Christian. Thanks.

Your welcome! BTW, I'm not an atheist, I'm agnostic. I sincerely hope there is an afterlife and the party continues.

I don't think Christians will have a concrete answer for you. There are Christians who sincerely believe that God intervenes in our lives, who believe that if something really good happens to you, it is because somehow you have pleased God. Some devote friends of ours, he had a severe heart attack, he was considered dead by paramedics, but he revived at the hospital. He had a long battle at the hospital with complications and survived. Luck, mysterious forces we don't understand, or in their view because he is a really good guy, 200 people prayed for him, and God saved him? How do they know? I don't know.

Where it gets dicey is when you are good, but bad things happen to you. For those who believe that God intervenes, what they really can't answer is my favorite example- the tornado in your neighborhood, everyone's house is knocked down but yours. You walk out, look up and say "thanks Lord for sparing my house!", while all of your church going neighbor walk out and ask "why God why, did you let this happen to me?". It's just not an applicable question. The convenient Christian answer is "God's mysterious ways" or "God tests us in different ways".

You might even ask is there an intelligent being who is in charge of us, or is even aware of us? You might not get the answer to this question even after you leave this life.

 

[Margene]

Your welcome! BTW, I'm not an atheist, I'm agnostic. I sincerely hope there is an afterlife and the party continues.

I don't think Christians will have a concrete answer for you. There are Christians who sincerely believe that God intervenes in our lives, who believe that if something really good happens to you, it is because somehow you have pleased God. Some devote friends of ours, he had a severe heart attack, he was considered dead by paramedics, but he revived at the hospital. He had a long battle at the hospital with complications and survived. Luck, mysterious forces we don't understand, or in their view because he is a really good guy, 200 people prayed for him, and God saved him? How do they know? I don't know.

Where it gets dicey is when you are good, but bad things happen to you. For those who believe that God intervenes, what they really can't answer is my favorite example- the tornado in your neighborhood, everyone's house is knocked down but yours. You walk out, look up and say "thanks Lord for sparing my house!", while all of your church going neighbor walk out and ask "why God why, did you let this happen to me?". It's just not an applicable question. The convenient Christian answer is "God's mysterious ways" or "God tests us in different ways".

You might even ask is there an intelligent being who is in charge of us, or is even aware of us? You might not get the answer to this question even after you leave this life.

Most of what you wrote can come down to one word, Karma. I think that is my guiding principle. Which can be self-serving but for the fact I enjoy doing good for others and dislike hurting people.

When it comes to organized religion, being as they are based on milinea old texts, they are full of holes. Today's peoples, in developed countries, are not so superstitious and willing to believe in a sky God. I find the bible full of contradictions. I don't understand how people can turn themselves over to it.

Thanks, this was an interesting thread.